Let Alex reply and lock the thread and start conducting these conversations in private surely?
 
Like Anderton, I have been a Mod on forums since about 2000 (I'm not quite as old, no offence mate!) and as amazing as it is to have transparency, enough is enough.... This is turning into a yarn.
 
 

X3, based on performance, is great. Based on the UI, it's awful and that's being extremely, extremely kind. Sad that I have to use X2 because it looks better. TBH, I don't even use X3. Who needs the aggravation of looking at it?

The reason why I suggested creating a site elsewhere was to avoid traffic complaints which I seem to be getting. I had far better suggestions though which I hope you would consider. As I said earlier I'd do this only if you asked me, and I agree it would not be a productive measure. I'm just giving you options not threats... Lordy!

I just have a list and I maintain it. I write down steps to repro or I validate existing steps, I post my results and I give feedback and that is that. Here is an idea, get your QA dept to do what I'm doing (and yes I know they are doing it internally, I never thought any different) and I become automatically obsolete.

Sorry I'm not interested in your beta team as that would require me to sign an NDA. The only scenario on where I would consider signing an NDA is when I could be paid a reasonable amount for my efforts on a professional basis. I do wish the best for your beta programme however I'm sure their work should be commended we don't hear much about it, so maybe this is the moment to recognise the people who do this stuff. Of course they will have their free copy of X4 good luck to them.

Again time after time I keep praising your efforts. Jeeze what else do I need to do. What you've been doing with X3 is awesome that's why you don't see me complaining rather praising. Please stop thinking that I'm trying to bury your achievements. I am not Kevin Spacey in House of Cards.

Now if you want to talk about support rather than the QA I would recommend another thread, maybe the thread you linked to. I view this as yet another distraction right now and if you want me to bang on about support on this thread it will never end. Best avoided then, I hardly ever use it anyway.

Thank you for at least recognising what we do, you have (and have always had since X3) my recognition. Keep up the good work. Your improvements do not go unnoticed.

CakeAlexS
 The only scenario on where I would consider signing an NDA is when I could be paid a reasonable amount for my efforts on a professional basis. I

 
The penny has dropped.

CakeAlexS
 
 
Cake will of course do what they like, but here is how I suggest Cake resolve the current issue: 
 

Alex ,
I hope you don't think that I am looking to attack you with what I am about to say 
I am not looking to attack you at all 
I feel that this simple sentence you wrote actually holds in part the key as to why there might be so many misunderstandings and miss communications that have surfaced in this thread and others ….
 
this is my opinion so take it for what is worth …that could mean nothing or that can mean something ..you decide 
 
it is inherent in human nature that sometimes our passions can have the abillity to cloud our perceptions as to what constitutes the difference between a reasonable expectation and an (somewhat) unreasonable expectation ….
 
often times when we have a reasonable expectaion it is pretty much a given that our needs and purposes for entering into an exchange on any level will be met ...
it has been my experience that when I have a reasonable expectation .
I'm going in with my eyes open and if things happen to change on the other end of things where my reasonable expectations are not gonna be met …it is probably in my best interest to walk away to find another way to meet my needs….
 
 
now lets look at unreasonable , and I'm not saying that you are unreasonable by saying 
 
"here is how I suggest Cake resolve the current issue:…."
 
this is perfectly within your rights voice your suggestions , I'm sure by doing so you have probably helped people with some of your suggestions …..that is not the issue I'm about to discuss 
 
the very term suggestion it self assumes the stance of becoming a subtle command 
 
btw... I'm not a english or spellcheck Nazi 
 
according to Wikipedia the opening definition of suggestion is 
 
"Suggestion is the psychological process by which one person guides the thoughts, feelings, or behaviour of another."
 
in the real world and life ..what does this really mean ?
 
I think that it is very possible that when "one offers up a suggestion"
part of the up front territory is to consider that the very act of offering a suggestion is to eventually meet some form of resistance …for having offered up the suggestion in the first place 
even highly evolved creative people don't really like being told what to do …
at least with them it is highly possible and likely for the suggestion to plant a seed ...
people that don't value integrity …or people that are apathetic to change …might just do a superficial shine em on job to get the person who is doing the suggesting to move on so they can go back to bizznez as usual ….
 
now as a casual observer of this thread I'm not looking to offer up any suggestions 
I am only willing to take full responsibility for sharing my unsolicited perceptions and views of what I perceive to be going on here ...
 
Cakewalk has amply demonstrated to me that as a company they hold a very high degree of integrity
I'm very impressed with the software and the amount of participation that the people that work and develop the software contribute to keeping " Us SONAR " users in the loop ...
the amount of tollerance towards allowing the users of the software to voice a free expression of opposing views is astounding ….
 
Alex , you and I have drawn swords in the past and I want you to know that I do respect you 
Your a smart guy , I feel your hearts in the right place and your putting your self out there in the line of fire 
that all takes courage ….you help people….I give you that ….I know you care ...
the thing is nobody asked you to ….you volunteered 
my concern is that it is very possible for a person to be "doing all the right things for all the right reasons " and to wind up actually undermining and wind up receiving  the wrong results….or the complete opposite of what the desired goal was in the first place ...
 
this is something I know in myself 
 
Cake danced around this a bunch of ways and it has come up in a subtle ways a few time on this thread  that the captain of the Cakewalk ship is Cakewalk ….
 
let emm do what they want to do  ….that  will free you up …you want to make music , don't you ?
 
from my point of view , I don't want you to paint your self into a corner and get frustrated because things aren't 
happening the way you might feel they should be happening ….it's their product 
 
A person try's to do all the right things , starts out with a strong focused good motivation , gets conflicting results
then over the course of time frustration sets in and before they know it they wind up Alienated .
 
I've been down this road before …I know what I'm talking about …I've paid the price ...
now here's my suggestion  …I'm just kidding 
 
 
 
to the general population here, 
I honestly think there has been a lot of give and take from all participants that have contributed to this highly charged passionate discussion  and for me this thread has certainly been an interesting read 
 
cheers,  
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

CakeAlexS
You might say that but I'm afraid I couldn't possibly comment
I'm sure they are quite capable of doing an excellent job without me somehow :).

There are better ways of going about becoming a beta tester than going public surely?
 
And a non disclosure agreement isnt a deal breaker to make money, its a simple corporate necessity in contract form that forbids you to expose the secrets of the project you are working on.
 
I have to sign them all the time in the film world 
 
Anyway, THEY ARE doing a great job without you, thats why we are all here.

Yes... Most things are well with this release... Except Zoom which is still an in-my-face constant nag.... I'd love a quick fix for that alone and I'd be happy to wait for the next paid version for anything else...

I know I dream too much...

;-)

Keni

Marky I read your all of your posts, thankyou.

markyzno
 
The problem is Alex, you have taken this on board yourself. I still dont get why.

 
I'll answer that so he doesn't have to.
 
He really likes Sonar. He wants it to be as close to perfect as humanly possible. Not only will that benefit him, but if Sonar can be more reliable by a huge factor than any DAW out there, then it will have an insane competitive advantage that will allow Sonar to sell a zillion copies and therefore, survive and prosper so that he can keep using software he really likes.
 
The problem arises because the core issue is "what is the most efficient way to deal with bugs the way the system is currently, given that it will likely change at some point?" The Bakers have identified what that method is, which is not the same method that Alex assumed would be optimum.
 
And now, it's time for a special reward for everyone who has slogged through all this verbiage. This is one of my favorite links of all time for making people go "WTF?!??!!???" Enjoy!
 
 
 
 

Anderton

markyzno
 
The problem is Alex, you have taken this on board yourself. I still dont get why.

 
I'll answer that so he doesn't have to.
 
He really likes Sonar. He wants it to be as close to perfect as humanly possible. Not only will that benefit him, but if Sonar can be more reliable by a huge factor than any DAW out there, then it will have an insane competitive advantage that will allow Sonar to sell a zillion copies and therefore, survive and prosper so that he can keep using software he really likes.
 
 
 
 

Dont open up a can of more worms!!!
 
I think Alex is perfectly capable of speaking for himself!!
 
 
 
 

I don't remember the date when X3e was released, but it addressed my main issues and I was happy.
 
That night someone announced here what he was going to do, some asked him not to, but the next morning there were about 40 threads bumped & Sonar was well-heckled in other forums.  I'm sure that didn't hurt CW (well maybe) but people were telling me to come to this site to see what a piece of crap X3 is. 
 
But maybe since one or 2 people here think there "was no other way" or "no better way" to "feed" The Bakers it happened.
 
As someone here said, CW can do what it wants to here (profound, isn't it?) so I'm staying out of this, but I can't say I'm pleased.

I dont believe that this issue here will be resolved any time soon. I get the indication that this is going to spiral out of control. I hope it doesnt.
Using Sonar is like eating fine food. Everyone has their own tastes and want it to taste the way they expect it to. There will always be bugs in the software. Even Microsoft knows that. The forum will always be reporting bugs in every way possible in order to get them fixed.
The only thing that is common ground here is that everyone loves to work with Sonar and are very pleased with the progress Cakewalk has made up until now. It would be nice to comprimise the differences here so that everyone is happy in the way bugs are reported in the forum.
I hope we dont get a cakefight here on the forum.
 
 

Nice link BTW Craig. Lord those snake oil guys....

OK my turn....
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/715280

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0MTUx2NKxI
 

Anderton
 
And now, it's time for a special reward for everyone who has slogged through all this verbiage. This is one of my favorite links of all time for making people go "WTF?!??!!???" Enjoy!
 

That's awesome, Craig, I love this stuff.  Just like the $1000 AC line cords.....
 
P.T. Barnum would be proud.
 
John