Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface?

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57Gregy
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2018/01/05 19:24:58 (permalink)

Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface?

I have been trying in vain for months to get my Saffire recognized by my Win 10 computer, or more accurately, the FW card recognized by the computer.
The Saffire is such a great interface for me that I would like to keep using it.
I have installed and re-installed the FW card many times, and the only time it was 'seen' by Windows was the first time I did it. It doesn't even show in the Device Manager anymore. I have run the 'check for new devices' thingy every time I did it, but nothing.
I'm not sure if there is a driver for it that needs to be installed, and the donated FW card (thanks, Bapu) didn't come with a disk.
Any suggestions?
 
I can get another interface, probably a Focusrite or TASCAM, maybe a Steinberg, but I'm so used to the Saffire and I'm old and set in my ways. The DAW computer is also old (almost 13!), running XP, and who knows when it will give up the ghost.
Any suggestions? Or what to be wary of in an interface?
 
Last year, I bought a Yamaha MX 49 to replace my broken Yamaha PSR GX 76, and It works great. It has an interface in it. Using the Steinberg/Yamaha ASIO driver and it provides excellent low-latency performance. I can record both MIDI and audio through it via USB, but I have yet to find a way to monitor the playback while recording and not have the playback also record on the new track. I would think that would be an essential task for an interface. And there are no mic or guitar inputs on it.
Oh, and the level is so low as to be unusable. Regardless of how loud I have the keyboard's volume, or how high the record level is on the computer, it rarely rises above -30 in the recorded track.
So really, unusable as an audio interface. On the plus side, MIDI works great!
Anyone familiar with the MX and using it to record anything?
 
Anyone got the winning lottery numbers? 

Greg 
I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
Everything is better with pie. 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
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    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/05 20:50:21 (permalink)
    I'm using a Windows 10 compatible Firewire PCIe card (with T.I. chipset) with my MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid.  No problems with firewire or the interface. 
     
    Here is the PCIe card that I'm using (bought from Amazon). I suspect the card you have is either not compatible with the PC hardware or Win 10.
     
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006DQ0KD2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
     

    "GCSG Productions"
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    #2
    CakeAlexSHere
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/06 03:32:48 (permalink)
    I have a Saffire.

    You probably need to install the legacy FireWire drivers for Win10. Can't find the download link so try this:

    https://answers.microsoft...2e-61a123d0de87?page=3

    Also make sure you're on the latest mix control drivers.
    #3
    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/06 13:48:02 (permalink)
    From what I read on other forums, e.g. www.tenforums.com and what I've researched there is only one firewire driver.  There were others but officially there is no "legacy" driver.   However, I used the default (not legacy) driver in Win 7 with a Saffire Pro 40 and it worked OK (I forgot about changing to the Legacy driver when I built a new system).
     
     
     
     

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    CakeAlexSHere
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/06 14:05:45 (permalink)
    MS did release a downloadable Win10 legacy driver somewhere seems to have disappeared. The Win 8 legacy driver might work though. I am assuming the discussion on my link is about it have not read it fully.

    If non legacy drivers are working that's because you are on a different FireWire chipset.
    #5
    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/06 18:08:09 (permalink)
    I've always used a PCIe card with a T.I. FW chipset.  That is what the "DICE" and "DICE II" FW chipsets require.  The Saffire Pro 40 has a DICE II FW chipset in it.  Most of the "older" audio interface units use the DICE/DICE II chipsets and why many will not work or work correctly if connected to a Firewire port in a PC that is not a T.I.
     
     http://www.wavefrontsemi.com/UserFiles/File/sell_sheets/DICEII_Presentation.pdf
     
    http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/Firewire.htm
     
     

    "GCSG Productions"
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    #6
    CakeAlexSHere
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/06 20:09:58 (permalink)
    Yup
    But it will work correctly though with legacy FireWire driver.
    #7
    mettelus
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/06 23:11:58 (permalink)
    +1 to the TI chipset mentioned above. IIRC Alex had mentioned that Win10 broke the ability for Saffires to use the VIA chipset (is what I run without issues on Win7). Win10 and the VIA chipset were a no go initially, so I never got Win10.
     
    Check your Device Manager and see what is listed under IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers. If that is VIA, I would contact Focusrite and ask for their recommendation. Also, I backed out of the Saffire MixControl upgrades and left it at version 3.4 on this machine - running MixControl 3.4 on Firmware version 2761 - but also realize that is Win7 using VIA. Even with a TI card recommended by Focusrite, you may need a specific MixControl/Firmware revision to work best.
     
    Again, the best bet is to contact Focusrite with your computer specs and ask them. Another reason I have refused to upgrade this unit is because Focusrite removed features on the newer models (no built-in VRM, one less monitor path out, and I *believe* they removed the internal audio loopback, but not sure on that one - Saffire models were the only ones to include this feature).

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/07 11:33:12 (permalink)
    Alex, here is the thread I started, on the www.tenforums.com about the "legacy" FW driver. 
    https://www.tenforums.com/drivers-hardware/91787-1394-firewire-driver.html
     

    "GCSG Productions"
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    Pragi
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/07 13:28:54 (permalink)
    Running a Saffire Pro 40 with via PCI Firewire Card with Ti chipset in
    my boxes for almost 10 years .
    A lot of good advices above , another one that might help you:
     
    On many old mobos have been power reduced PCI-E to PCI ports  which were not capable of running Firewire Audio interfaces.
    Means if you are running a PCI (not E )to firewire card this can
    cause problems.
     
    Hope that helps.
     
     
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    57Gregy
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/07 16:11:38 (permalink)
    It is a TI chip on the card. I'll have to pull it to see what brand the card is, though. Bapu may know.
    It is PCIe.
    My DAW computer uses VIA without problems (as someone in a very old thread wrote, "you got lucky").
     
    I'll go through these recommendations on my days off and see what happens. I just think it's strange that the FW card was seen by Windows when I first installed it, but never again.
     
    Thanks everyone for chiming in. I'll let you know the outcome.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
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    57Gregy
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/31 19:57:30 (permalink)
    So, nothing worked, as far as I can tell. Still no device showing in Device Manager.
    I ordered the FW card firebird recommended above (great service from Amazon, by the way). The installation instructions say, "Locate an available PCI-Express slot (preferably a PCI-Express 2.0 slot)".
    How do I determine if I have a 2.0 slot and which one of the two expansion slots I have is it, or are both of them 2.0 slots?
    All info appreciated.
     

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
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    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/31 20:13:26 (permalink)
    Since Windows is not "seeing" it, the next step is the BIOS.  Some BIOS will identify added cards and some will not.  However as Windows is not seeing it likely the BIOS is not either.  Next step is to reset the BIOS (Clear CMOS memory).  Some motherboards have a jumper to clear CMOS, but the best way is, with the PC powered off remove the CR2032 CMOS backup battery on the motherboard for AT LEAST 10 minutes.  Replace the battery, observing polarity and then power up and Check the Device Manager to see if its installed (or has an error code).  If there were any BIOS customizations those will have to be set again, because of the clearing. 
     

    "GCSG Productions"
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    57Gregy
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/31 21:02:12 (permalink)
    Thanks, firebird, but that's the old FW card I installed last year not being seen. I bought a new one and am trying to determine if I have a PCI-Express 2.0 slot in which to install it, to replace the old one. Hopefully, it will be seen, and work, on this Win 10 machine.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
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    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/01/31 21:45:35 (permalink)
    I would think it will work OK.  
     

    "GCSG Productions"
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    mettelus
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/01 14:00:29 (permalink)
    The best way to know what the slots are on the MB is to google your MB and download the pdf for it.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/03 11:00:16 (permalink)
    Have you tried the board yet?
     

    "GCSG Productions"
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    57Gregy
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/03 15:51:52 (permalink)
    fireberd
    Have you tried the board yet?
     




    Yes. Recognized and working, but it just won't communicate with the Saffire.
    I guess I have to accept that it won't work on Win 10.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
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    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/03 18:46:19 (permalink)
    It should work.  My Saffire Pro 40 went "bottom up" (died) back in the Win 8 days.   I liked it and thought it was great until I got something else to replace it and much better recorded audio.  
     
    Before it died I had some problems with the Firewire interface, it stopped connecting so I was using my backup MAudio Fastrack Ultra backup unit.  I kept messing with the Saffire Pro 40 but neither Firewire port would work (connect).  Then all of a sudden one of the Firewire ports worked but the other didn't and I started using it again until it died completely.
     
    The MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid I have now is connected via Firewire and I'm on Win 10 (current fall creator's upgrade).

    "GCSG Productions"
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    abacab
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/03 18:56:56 (permalink)
    Saw this on the Q&A section of the link Firebird posted earlier.
     
    The SD-PEX30009 model is incompatible. It uses the TI XIO2213A chipset will not work with any Saffire devices. The SD-PEX30016 uses the TI XIO2213B chipset and has been recommended by Focusrite for use with their legacy devices https://support.focusrite...-gb/articles/207546925

     
    I have the PEX30009, which works wonderfully with my legacy M-Audio FireWire interface, has worked on both Win 7 and Win 10.
     
    But based on this comment, it appears that the Saffire only likes the TI chipset included on the PEX30016 model.

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    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/03 20:48:00 (permalink)
    Another thought.  If you have access to another Win 10 PC and can install the FireWire card in it, try that and connecting the Saffire Pro 40.  If it still will not connect, there may be a problem with the FireWire interface in the Saffire Pro 40.  The Saffire Pro 40, like many audio devices in that era, uses the DICE II chipset internally.  

    "GCSG Productions"
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    ASUS Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
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    mettelus
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/03 23:12:37 (permalink)
    Ouch, that card not working is worrisome, since I found the same on on my own and asked Focusrite if it would work (it does have the TI chipset recommended by Focusrite). The response I got was that it wasn't one of the cards they specifically tested, so could not guarantee it, but is also the reason I haven't upgraded to Win10.
     
    I am not sure if MixControl/firmware versions are playing into this, but those can have as much affect as drivers. Also there is an ohciTool recommended on Focusrite's help pages that would be worth running. In a couple weeks I will probably be in the same boat, so will see if I can get that FW card to work for me when the time comes and report back (I do not want to lose my 24 DSP either).
     
    Quick note, all of the recommended cards on that page above are 1394b, and I need a 1394a port for mine.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #22
    abacab
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/03 23:37:24 (permalink)
    mettelus
    Ouch, that card not working is worrisome, since I found the same on on my own and asked Focusrite if it would work (it does have the TI chipset recommended by Focusrite). The response I got was that it wasn't one of the cards they specifically tested, so could not guarantee it, but is also the reason I haven't upgraded to Win10.
     
    I am not sure if MixControl/firmware versions are playing into this, but those can have as much affect as drivers. Also there is an ohciTool recommended on Focusrite's help pages that would be worth running. In a couple weeks I will probably be in the same boat, so will see if I can get that FW card to work for me when the time comes and report back (I do not want to lose my 24 DSP either).
     
    Quick note, all of the recommended cards on that page above are 1394b, and I need a 1394a port for mine.




    The Syba card that fireberd linked to in post #2 has the correct TI chip, and has a 1394a port.

    DAW: Cakewalk by Bandlab 2018.07-13; Sonar Platinum, and others ...  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Miroslav; Notion; Overture; SampleTank 3; SynthMaster; Syntronik; Waves  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1709  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Fender P-Bass

    #23
    mettelus
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/04 06:15:27 (permalink)
    abacab
     
    The Syba card that fireberd linked to in post #2 has the correct TI chip, and has a 1394a port.




    Correct, and is the same one I was referring to that I had found and asked Focusrite about (and will end up getting). The 1394a connections are harder to get, and that is one of only a handful that seem to have it anymore. I am not sure which Saffire version the OP has, and cannot speak anymore beyond what is in this thread until I have the hardware to play with.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #24
    Racery
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/05 06:45:22 (permalink)
    57Gregy
    fireberd
    Have you tried the board yet?
     




    Yes. Recognized and working, but it just won't communicate with the Saffire.
    I guess I have to accept that it won't work on Win 10.


    There are is no doubt , it won't work for Windows 10 
    #25
    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/05 11:33:46 (permalink)
    The Saffire Pro 40 IS Win 10 compatible, according to Focusrite.
    https://us.focusrite.com/downloads/os?product=saffire%20pro%2040
     

    "GCSG Productions"
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    #26
    57Gregy
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/05 14:57:08 (permalink)
    I have the original Saffire, not the Pro 40. It's about 10 years old. It still works great on my XP DAW, which is even older that the Saffire.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
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    #27
    fireberd
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/05 15:20:44 (permalink)
    Ouch, that may be the problem.  
     
    Now, have you tried installing the Drivers in a Compatibility mode?  Try Win 7 first if that is an option.
     

    "GCSG Productions"
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    #28
    57Gregy
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/06 19:05:41 (permalink)
    mettelus
    Ouch, that card not working is worrisome, since I found the same on on my own and asked Focusrite if it would work (it does have the TI chipset recommended by Focusrite). The response I got was that it wasn't one of the cards they specifically tested, so could not guarantee it, but is also the reason I haven't upgraded to Win10.
     
    I am not sure if MixControl/firmware versions are playing into this, but those can have as much affect as drivers. Also there is an ohciTool recommended on Focusrite's help pages that would be worth running. In a couple weeks I will probably be in the same boat, so will see if I can get that FW card to work for me when the time comes and report back (I do not want to lose my 24 DSP either).
     
    Quick note, all of the recommended cards on that page above are 1394b, and I need a 1394a port for mine.




    Well, if I can't get the Saffire to work on my machine with this brand-new firewire card, I'll probably go with a USB interface.
    Maybe we can work something out. 

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #29
    Pragi
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    Re: Win 10, FireWire, Saffire Connectivity or New Interface? 2018/02/06 20:53:45 (permalink)
    Greg,
    can understand that you take every chance to keep the saffire pro 40,
    cause it´s awesome , but at a certain point it´s time to look for a new one.
    The good point is that focusrite is offering now  the clarett (usb) interfaces.
    Sooner or later it is time to go ahead.
    Hope it will take some years til I have to change.
     
    regards
     
    #30
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