Helpful ReplyWindows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game

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Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
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2017/04/10 15:24:19 (permalink)

Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game

Hey y'all,
 
Here's a blog post we just wrote about some early findings on the Windows 10 Creators Update.
http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-10-creators-update-your-daw-is-not-a-game/
 
tl;dr
Game Mode not recommended just yet...

Alex Westner
VP Product Strategy & Innovation
 
#1
Zargg
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/10 15:47:05 (permalink)
Thanks for the tip, Alex.
Good to know.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#2
azslow3
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/10 16:37:27 (permalink)
That is not the first observation that Gaming mode decrease total performance. And I have not found a good technical explanation what it really does. From general information, apart from disabling some "pop-ups" and background activity (which can improve performance if and only if these extra services are really running):

The goal behind Game Mode is consistency, rather than flat performance boosts (although it will bring some of that too).

Which can be an indication of some "real time" optimizations. Real time is always slower when compared by total throughput.
 
Interesting question how Sonar performs when asked to work in real time. The test can be as simple as putting the audio interface into fast settings (f.e. 96kHz / 64 samples in buffer) and then starting adding software effects till the system start "poping and cracking" periodically. Then switch into Game mode and test either it "pop/crack" more or less.
 
I mean it can happened that Gaming mode is not a bad idea during recording while a bad idea during mixing. But we all are able test it soon, so will see
 
The idea behind "real time" is that process get GUARANTEED amount of resources. This amount is usually lower then practical maximum the same process can get without guarantee. Also supporting such schema usually involve more process switching, which on common processors can reduce practical average performance during the same time slot. This "effect", while not technically exact, can be observed in Sonar when you switch the buffer from let say 64 samples to 1024 samples. The number of samples Sonar should process/produce per second does not change, but the load on the system is reduced while acceptable "jitter" in processing is increasing.

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#3
rsinger
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/10 16:38:05 (permalink)
Thanks for letting everyone know.

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#4
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/10 17:28:25 (permalink)
The Creators Update will be hitting Windows Update tomorrow. I've already installed it and have a few observations. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone, but it was my experience.
  1. Nuked my ad-hoc network I use for Internet Connection Sharing. I had to perform a Network Reset to fix it.
  2. Reset my file associations (.PDF, .WAV, etc.)
  3. Removed and changed items on Windows/Start button right-click menu. (Control Panel gone, Programs and Features replaced with Apps and Features, Command Prompt replaced with Powershell, etc.)
  4. Added a Microsoft Edge browser tab to Internet Explorer right next to New Tab.
  5. Removed icons from my Taskbar
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things, but it's been more inconveniences and annoyances than anything beneficial.
#5
TheMaartian
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/10 19:16:06 (permalink)
One statement in the blog caught my attention...in a good way. Game Mode is disabled by default. Thank you, MS!
 
Anybody remember the DOS 4 debacle, where MS adding disk write caching, turned it on by default...and told nobody! LOTS of corrupted dBase III databases due to that bit of laziness.

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#6
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/10 20:41:19 (permalink)
TheMaartian
Anybody remember the DOS 4 debacle, where MS adding disk write caching, turned it on by default...and told nobody! LOTS of corrupted dBase III databases due to that bit of laziness.




I know this is off-topic but OMG yes. We were totally hit by that issue, FoxPro DBs corrupting right and left. Thanks for the memory.
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/10 22:30:54 (permalink)
At the moment best is when Windows is optimized for background processes.
One might think this is the opposite of "game modus".

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/10 23:10:54 (permalink)
THambrecht
 
At the moment best is when Windows is optimized for background processes.
One might think this is the opposite of "game modus".




this is somewhat confusing, i have in the past read that it should be set for background processes, but the last time i looked into it i read about optimizations a number of times at different places that this is no longer recommended, they recommend processor scheduling be set to programs. i have tried it both ways and can't see a difference either way. (i don't have any performance issues as such, just thinking it best to have settings optimized as recommended)
#9
millzy
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 00:26:36 (permalink)
Thanks for the quick heads up, cheers.

Millzy

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#10
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 04:03:26 (permalink)
The Grim
THambrecht
 
At the moment best is when Windows is optimized for background processes.
One might think this is the opposite of "game modus".




this is somewhat confusing, i have in the past read that it should be set for background processes, but the last time i looked into it i read about optimizations a number of times at different places that this is no longer recommended, they recommend processor scheduling be set to programs. i have tried it both ways and can't see a difference either way. (i don't have any performance issues as such, just thinking it best to have settings optimized as recommended)


 
Yeah, these days, just set your power plan to "High Performance" and you're pretty much good to go.  No real need these days to change to background processes mode.  The only other thing I would do in addition to this is check for anything causing high DPC latency and deal to it as required.
#11
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 09:45:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby riojazz 2017/04/11 21:34:45
The usual word of warning for those updating to creators update. If you have disabled your onboard sound cards the update will re-enable them.

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#12
John
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 10:51:19 (permalink)
It is super cool that CW is on top of this. 

Best
John
#13
Sir Les
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 13:13:04 (permalink)
Here I wonder, what background services are doing to employ this mode?
 
"While most of the features in this update don’t directly relate to DAW’s or music production, we were particularly intrigued with “Game Mode.” Microsoft indicates that Game Mode dedicates more GPU cycles and a set number of CPU threads to the game and prevents background processes from interfering with it. It sounds good on paper so we wondered how it might benefit a DAW like SONAR…"
 
Do not directly relate tp DAW or Music Production?
 
Well what is considered a DAW?...
Is it running on CPU ?
What instructions are running in background that interrupt cpu instructions to need a Game mode put into the OS?..
Don't be fooled by The raido, tv, or the magazines....Just remember that, It's a grand illusion, cause deep deep down where the buffalo roam....You know the spying is ongoing...interrupting that cpu of choice to do, the Dirty deeds and cause nothing but DAW interruptions, and or cut the effects...or stop drivers, and or remove them, if they interfere with that background service!
 
Games eh?
 
Yah, just close our eyes and listen to the bull blogs sputtering bent ideals as words...to keep it that way, surely!
 
I hope the CW team has seen enough...and are working hard at making their own OS...or something new from the oRT Clouds offerings.....
 
That being said...let me say...more Positive outlooks are in the unseen words we all know exist....Man can do way better than what is now on the table.
 
So, do not let the hair fall to the wayside...As Humans made this MS OS...Humans can unmake it...and get it right...instead of being bent to a ill gotten source of interruptions and bugs in being imposed, or installed, or imbedded....Make it better by dropping the support...and making something for DAWS and Video that has no detrimental effects on them.
 
Obviously the words used in the Blog...do not state the obvious as is now known to be a problematic source of interruptions being in background services and applications causing mayhem...With Most Applications put in MS Os.......((well known to turn off redundant devices and applications such as virus protection and the liken, or others that use memory and or cpu and or hardware such as Storage)) well there is a door now open for Mayhem , and MS is going to use that door in background...so here is our offering to appease the poe pipers worries?.
 
Please try to see through the frogs mouth piece, and see the beast for what it is...Paranoid delusions, spying and lying wonders eh?....freak me out CW...Thanks for the heads up!.
 
Best wishes!
 
Cheers!
 
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#14
Brando
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 13:50:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Schafe 2017/04/14 18:57:30
Oh FFS..

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#15
MarioD
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 14:04:37 (permalink)
This is exactly why my music computer is off-line with the Win 10 Pro updates disabled.  I will not upgrade Win 10 until I am forced too and even then I will probably stay with what I have.  I like stable!

The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better.
 
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#16
bapu
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 16:05:46 (permalink)
But life is still a game, no?

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#17
togo
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 17:40:26 (permalink)
Just to add to my list of grievances, they add their Mail app to your Taskbar, and on one of my computers I keep getting a pop-up to set up OneDrive even though it's not in Startup and autostart is turned off in OneDrive's settings.
 
Edit - And Windows Defender shows an "Actions recommended" exclamation point if you don't use their cloud based protection.
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/11 19:21:03 (permalink)
bapu
But life is still a game, no?




You're right.
 
Tag, you're it.

The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better.
 
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#19
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 00:08:33 (permalink)
I have the creator's update installed on all my machines now, no bumps, no crashes, no corruption. It went very smoothly. As a previous poster pointed out, it will re-enable devices that you may prefer to be off, and you will have to re-authorize some plug-ins, but it was all in all a very smooth update experience for me.

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#20
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 01:10:54 (permalink)
togo
The Creators Update will be hitting Windows Update tomorrow. I've already installed it and have a few observations. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone, but it was my experience.
  1. Nuked my ad-hoc network I use for Internet Connection Sharing. I had to perform a Network Reset to fix it.
  2. Reset my file associations (.PDF, .WAV, etc.)
  3. Removed and changed items on Windows/Start button right-click menu. (Control Panel gone, Programs and Features replaced with Apps and Features, Command Prompt replaced with Powershell, etc.)
  4. Added a Microsoft Edge browser tab to Internet Explorer right next to New Tab.
  5. Removed icons from my Taskbar
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things, but it's been more inconveniences and annoyances than anything beneficial.




 
 I always get my shared folders across 4 machines messed with with a W10 f'update.
 
 Turn off protected password sharing is still a broken feature in W10.

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#21
Anderton
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 03:03:11 (permalink)
Is it necessary to re-authorize AD2? Frankly I don't use AD2 because it seems that if I sneeze, I have to re-authorize it.

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 03:26:31 (permalink)
TheMaartian
One statement in the blog caught my attention...in a good way. Game Mode is disabled by default. Thank you, MS!
 
Anybody remember the DOS 4 debacle, where MS adding disk write caching, turned it on by default...and told nobody! LOTS of corrupted dBase III databases due to that bit of laziness.


Oh yeah. I ended up with a whole stack of corrupt backup diskettes. No errors raised while writing them, but none were readable.
 
So yes, thank you Microsoft for turning this mode off by default. Now, could you do the same for Cortana?
 
But mostly, a big thank you to Alex and company for saving me from a day of non-productive experimentation.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#23
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 03:49:12 (permalink)
Anderton
Is it necessary to re-authorize AD2? Frankly I don't use AD2 because it seems that if I sneeze, I have to re-authorize it.


Yes - just Remove and Add your machine in XLN Online Installer and that should do it.

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#24
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 09:22:21 (permalink)
so do we know which plugs will need reauthorising, or do we just stumble upon them as and when? grrr

just a sec

#25
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 16:29:25 (permalink)
I'm confused... Is this an update that is forced upon W10 users? Or is it an option?
 
Apologies for the noob like question

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#26
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 18:44:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/04/12 19:03:57
you can put it off for like 4 months if you change your update settings... not sure if you have that option if you have home version.
i installed it today on 2 computers, including my main desktop DAW.  Only issue is with the new Defender, but checking it out.

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#27
synkrotron
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 19:18:53 (permalink)
Maarkr
you can put it off for like 4 months if you change your update settings... 




Thanks, I'll have a look into that. I'd rather put it off for a bit while things "settle down"  with the release.
 
Although I might yet be too late for that. I left my laptop doing some image rendering work, while I had my tea, and when I came back, Windows had shut down and re-booted, which means it had forced closed my software, which is a bit annoying. When I checked my system for windows version it is still showing as version 1607.
 
Half way through typing this I thought I'd have a quick look around my system settings and what have you.
 
On the Update Status page it is telling me that the Creators Update is on its way.
 
I then looked at the Advance Options page and found the Defer feature updates option, so I have now ticked that box.
 
Hopefully that will stop the latest update being pushed through...
 
cheers
 
andy

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#28
MarioD
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/12 21:09:35 (permalink)
You can stop updates to Win 10 Pro via services:

"Turn off Windows Updates in Windows 10

You can do this using the Windows Update service. Via Control Panel > Administrative Tools, you can access Services. In the Services window, scroll down to Windows Update and turn off the process. To turn it off, right-click on the process, click on Properties and select Disabled. That will take care of Windows Updates not being installed on your machine."
 
I would only do this if your computer is on-line only for software updates like Sonar updates.  If you are using your music computer for other Internet activities then I would get the updates.

The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better.
 
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#29
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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update - Your DAW is not a Game 2017/04/13 15:19:36 (permalink)
I didn't have to reauthorize AD2 after the update, though I had to log back into my Cakewalk account in the Command Center before SONAR would let me continue.

A few of my songs
 
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#30
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