Windows OS - The Future without a Desktop?

Hi guys, long time Sonar user, but this is my first post on the forum - be gentle!
 
I'm a registered X2 Producer user and recently had some issues with DPC Latency after migrating my DAW to Windows 8 Pro (not serious, but some little niggles).
 
I thought that I'd take some time to revert from Win 8 x64 back to Win 7 x64 and rebuild my DAW on that, just to compare.  Instant fix, all perfect now with my new Roland Quad capture set at the lowest ASIO settings - Brilliant! (For reference: I'm running fairly high-end PC hardware).
 
Anyway, the events above got me thinking about the OS we're all running on and what awaits us for future OS updates.
 
I started digging around on Google and saw an alarming amount of posts that say the next version of Microsoft windows (I guess 9?) will have the desktop completely removed and will work exclusively within the 'Metro' touch front-end.  I'm also reading that Microsoft have stated (don't know if this is a fact) that 100 msec was considered to be their goal for acceptable latency within the 'Metro' environment.
 
Now that got me thinking about how cakewalk and the other 'Big' players are going to perform on any future Microsoft OS that doesn't have a desktop and isn't optimised for Audio performance. 
 
I'm slightly worried about the way Microsoft is trying to turn my £1000+ Pro Desktop PC into a low performance tablet/Phone clone with touch features that I neither want nor need?
 
I've got to be honest and say that I'm keeping an eye on both Linux and OSX for the future, in case I need to transition to a new DAW platform.  It's slightly worrying to note that Cakewalk is Windows only though.
 
I guess that my question here is why don't Microsoft just improve/optimise/polish Windows 7 and keep a Desktop OS for Desktop PCs rather than attempting to have a single OS that runs on your phone/tablet/PC/wristwatch etc. etc.
 
I can see that software like cakewalk is already starting to be considered by Microsoft as Legacy desktop software.  We're all investing a fair amount of money in software and hardware for music production and I want to feel a little bit assured that the investment on PC hardware is justified.
 
I guess the new windows 8 is 'love or hate' for most - personally I hate the direction that Microsoft are going in for desktop OS and that's why I'm considering ALL of my options - how do you guys feel.
 
I did a quick search and couldn't see any other Windows 9/Desktop threads, so though I make a post - apologies if this has already been discussed before.
 
Thanks and regards.
 
 

The Windows desktop isn't going anywhere. Microsoft would go out of business if they did that anytime soon. See these articles...

* http://www.zdnet.com/five...going-away-7000013185/

* http://winsupersite.com/w...dows-8-blue-build-9364

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq
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Hey NorthernElite
I've got 8 on one of my work systems. I'm not a huge fan of it either.  I just ordered a bunch of new hardware for my computer. Once it get it all installed I plan on upgrading to Win8 even though I'm less than thrilled about it.  I have a coworker who says he hated it at first, but he forced himself to use it over a weekend, now he loves it.  Eh, I dunno... I'm not that optimistic. 

None the less, I will be upgrading soon, now that Boss has released Win8 drivers for the GT100

Cheers Scott - I followed your links - very interesting reading - thanks for that.
 
Yeah I agree it doesn't make sense for Microsoft to dump the Desktop!  That prospect IS worrying, I do hope you're correct.
 
Perhaps I should start reading some of the positive search results occasionally, not just the negative ones!
 
Google is your friend (sometimes)....lol
 
Thanks again.

I posted elsewhere about my recent purchase of Office 2013. It sucks, and the transition from 2007 to 2013 was much like Sonar 8 to X1. There's all these place holders in the interface for  your friends pictures and they waste a ton of space. To compensate, they remove boundary margins from adjacent windows. 

It's really hard to describe, but it screams tablet. If DAW makers were smart they start to develop a minimal O/S designed to host their applications. Bundle it with the programs and distribute it. Rather than making the product conform to the system, make the system conform to the product.

After all, there's not much more they can cram into a DAW. Let's call the new interface OSC.

John, I like your thinking!
 
A complete DAW in a box - custom OS and DAW working as a closely integrated 'end-to-end' design.
 
A single install process to provide a completely optimised and efficient OS/DAW, in one box!
 
But wait...   ...shouldn't we include big green touchy tiles so that I can check my calendar and facebook updates?
 
You had me at 'Hello'!...lol

markyzno


I spoke to a Windows Dev guy the other day at length on the phone....probably for about 2 hours on this subject.

Desktop aint going anywhere.

Great news - I hope not!
 
Thanks for the heads-up!

Mosvalve


It would be nice if hardware manufacturers keep up with new OS technologies and have drivers and such ready before a new OS comes out. Why make people suffer? As far as Win 8 being the most sold I believe that's because new PC's come with Win 8. You don't have a choice unless you custom order a PC with Win 7. If you go to Best Buy they don't even have Win 7 on the shlef, only Win 8. I would say Win 7 was the most sold OS when it came out for the same reason. Hey who remembers using EMM386 to free up some of that DOS 64K memory barrier? You gotta love DOS. Windows 3.0 and 3.1 went through some big changes over the years for sure. Ah memories...

Yeah good point, buy a new PC now and it's Windows 8 or nothing, so those sales figures are going to be up regardless, although in my case; I did actually purchase a standalone Windows 8 Pro license, so I don't have that excuse...lol
 
Yeah, remember the EMM386 days,  that message 'Missing either himem.sys or emm386.exe' seems like a lifetime ago...lol
 

bitflipper


Then again, I was very much taken by surprise by the abomination that is Metro.

Yeah - that's exactly how I reacted...lol    I didn't go down the beta release path with this OS.  No test-driving for me...   ...I just paid for the final release and upgraded.  Although I'd read reviews both good and bad prior to my install - I wasn't expecting a WTF! moment, and certainly not multiple WTF! moments...lol

I use Pokki Windows 8 Start Menu
Nice little app.

I'm willing to bet that Microsoft is only doing this out of necessity. It's more of the smart device, apple and google that is driving things this direction.  I truly hope that PCs and Laptops never become extinct.  I like having the ability to upgrade my computer's components if I so chose.  While I would like it if desktops could shrink is size, I would not want them to go away. 

While I would like it if desktops could shrink is size, I would not want them to go away. 

There will always be demand for high-performance machines.
The desktop PC (and UI for that matter) isn't going anywhere...


If you migrate early to Win8 (it's still relatively early), your odds of encountering an issue are higher than if you'd wait another 6 months.  This is especially true if you're not using the absolute latest hardware.


Win8x64 is running well here... but there's not a major performance increase over Win7x64.  


If you go Win8x64, make sure your core hardware and software are known to work.  Otherwise, go with Win7x64... as it's a proven rock-solid platform.

If you're using a multi-touch monitor, you have no choice but to use Win8x64.

see I do see a performance increase, its most obvious in copy/paste.
pasting time has been cut by 1/3 to 1/4 the time.

boot time is almost cut in half.

programs open a tab bit faster.

I do think windows 8 is a faster os, im not the only one to say this as well.  :)
 
***as far as the start button, you guys need to check out the start page.
your start button is still there, its just a whole page now with more options.
imagine if microsoft took the start menu and boosted it with 10 more options,
that's what they did.
 
use you windows key and start typing.
 
just try it now, hit the windows key/start typing any file or app on your computer.
I don't like any mods on my daw, I don't want any registry values played with using third party appz.
as harmless as they seem, its one more thing for a possible conflict.

chuckebaby


see I do see a performance increase,

OK credit where credit's due; For the relatively short period of time I had Win 8 installed, I did see some of the speed increases you mention - boot time was faster and in fairness the whole thing did seem quite snappy disk access etc..  But in my case I had DPC spikes from somewhere and I did manage to narrow things down a little but got tired of trying to debug drivers and services, I'm not saying I couldn't have fixed it given time, just that I'd spent long enough trying to fix it.
 
What compounded matters for me was not only was I seeing regular seriously high DPC spikes within my DPC tools, but those spikes were also being heard in Sonar in terms of either click/pops and/or random polyphony reduction on VST instruments.  Not good to have to make adjustments within ASIO that increased latency in order to stop this.  Especially, considering that now I'm back on Win 7, I'm running on lowest ASIO settings without artefacts or degradation of polyphony. 
 
But opening Apps, startup/shutdown etc., yep that is one area that I was impressed by.
 
Huge thumbs down for the GUI though, even if I had a touch VDU, I'll bet that I'd still be reaching for the keyboard and mouse.  
 
If I could debug the DPC issues, I could probably get some benefits from Win 8, assuming I immediately go straight into Desktop mode and ignore the Metro part of it. 
 
 

gbarrett


 When will computer nirvana actually arrive?!?!

It very nearly arrived with windows 7 and then Microsoft attempted to Appletise it and introduce the mighty Metro (although they've renamed it again..lol). 
 
Some of the Linux distros that are coming out look absolutely stunning, but alas the big software houses aren't gonna take a gamble on such a fragmented OS, too many fingers in the pie and not enough standardisation.  So bang goes my Cakewalk and Photoshop.
 
I even briefly looked into running OSX on my PC, but the Hackintosh does look like it might be a real headache to get trouble-free operation and it wouldn't let me run Cakewalk natively.  So yeah, jump to Apple hardware/software or place your trust in Microsoft and hope they get it right.  I'm invested in PC/Cakewalk so I'll see how things transpire with windows 8.5/9 before making any longer term plans.
 
In the short term I need to set aside some more time to try another windows 8 install and debug the DPC issues, although I'm really in no hurry to do this at the moment as Win 7 is running like a charm.