amiller
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 18:19:53
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ba_midi
One problem that can come about in that scenario is that the user saves the project "now" as Project X. Then continues to do a lot of work in X1B and things get corrupted.
Going 'back' to Project X means starting over again to add back in the changes that may have been done over days or weeks of work.
I think that's why there's reluctance.
Bingo! That's exactly correct. In fact, X1(b) may be great, however, with all of the bugs that are in X1 and then in X1(a) I do feel reluctant to work in earnest in X1(b)...for now. I would hate to waste hours of work in ANY DAW and have to re-do the work. I'll keep working with X1(x) on the side until I feel like it has a good "track" record and truly is solid.
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
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chuckebaby
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 18:21:16
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Scott Lee
"In my opinion I think it's silly to depend on any software, new or old, for one's livelihood without thorough testing. How about you?"
Hi Larry,
Problem is, how well do you think that analogy would fair in the car business? It is my livelihood to drive to work, and get home. If the car does not work, you don't wait a year before it does. How about you?
Why software gets the "get out of jail free card" boggles ones mind. You buy into a product, you expect it to work 80-85% at least of how it was promoted. Sure, it is fair to assume there will be some maintenance involved after the primary release, not 5 months into the development cycle to get "working as intended".
But you are right, we all have different opinions on the matter. If the software though is not ready for a public release, we dont had the option to take the opened box back to the store. Entrapment into becoming a customer beta tester? Perhaps, but calling this a new release is somewhat misleading from my point of view.
of course you expect it work..but if you reading reviews about a car that was having issues,would you drive it cross-country?i think what hes trying to say is this patch just came out 2 days ago..you, i and the next guy would expect it to work great,but would you trust it to start a major project ??all in all it should work right out of the box.but would i start trying to use it on someone else money before experimenting a bit??no way..i need a week..maybe more before i use it for my livelihood.patch has been out 48hrs.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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backwoods
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 18:28:23
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X1b is fine for audio recording amiller. Your bass player friend should have no worries putting down some tracks.
What is all this fascination about importing old projects from versions of Sonar past. Just bounce the wave file for each track and import to X1 or your DAW of choice. It seems to me that people have too much time to spend filing trivial complaints on this website!
You'll never get anything done if you are waiting for a perfect working environment.
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mikey
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 18:46:10
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The real problem here is not "whether or not it is, or it is not a good idea to use a software after release". The real problem here, and its not just with Cakewalk, is that the general public (I.E. us guys) have allowed software makers to release uncooked unready and not fully done software for a decade or longer, knowing full well that we will keep on buying and then griping about it while they work on a few patches to fix it, all the while doing what they intended to do. Sell their product. Its the buyers own fault for allowing this mindset of buying not fully QA'ed and ready software to exist on the market. And, since we cant even agree 100 percent on this forum on one thing, much less within the whole software industry to stop buying things until they are finished/done, we are all truly screwed and will have to rely on the patch system as a way of life for our software needs... We have done it to ourselfs... So..., Im just happy Cakewalk/Roland is working on it, but Im blaming me and all of you out there for the reason it happens... ;)
post edited by mikey - 2011/03/23 18:53:19
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 18:48:22
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Scott Lee
"In my opinion I think it's silly to depend on any software, new or old, for one's livelihood without thorough testing. How about you?"
Hi Larry,
Problem is, how well do you think that analogy would fair in the car business? It is my livelihood to drive to work, and get home. If the car does not work, you don't wait a year before it does. How about you?
Why software gets the "get out of jail free card" boggles ones mind. You buy into a product, you expect it to work 80-85% at least of how it was promoted. Sure, it is fair to assume there will be some maintenance involved after the primary release, not 5 months into the development cycle to get "working as intended".
But you are right, we all have different opinions on the matter. If the software though is not ready for a public release, we dont had the option to take the opened box back to the store. Entrapment into becoming a customer beta tester? Perhaps, but calling this a new release is somewhat misleading from my point of view.
Scott, I think we mostly agree. And the car analogy is not that great, a bit of apples and oranges I think. Software is pretty unique and serves a pretty unique market and I agree that software should be thoroughly tested and as bug-free as possible before release which X1 was not. Within the narrow context of the original topic I still maintain that amiller's decision to wait on X1a, b, is a wise business decision. Like I said I wait on my professional software till it's ready for prime time - it's only prudent IMO. And as chukebaby said X1b's only been out for a couple of days. Regardless of your experieience with X1a that's WAY to soon to be confindent on a professional basis IMO. And if I relied on Sonar to make a living, and it crashed repeatedly, and I could NOT get it working no matter what I tried? As i've posted before I'd be spitting fire and lighting up these boards as well. If it started to cost me my livelihood, and clients, and reputation, I would be gone in a heart beat - and wouldn't blame anyone else if they did the same. Did you ever try X1b?
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 18:54:20
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I keep mentioning the other software I use for my business and it's SUCH a different story in that market place. A buggy release doesn't last for more than a week or two before it's ready for prime time. Lot's of BETA testing too, I was on the BETA team and learned a ton but the Architectural software culture is so very different than music software culture and, making Mikey's point, there's no way they could get away with bugs in their software for very long - at least not show stoppers or the constant crashing we've seen here.
I still have hope though and lots of empathy for those who are still having problems.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 19:00:44
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Why software gets the "get out of jail free card" boggles ones mind
I Am so with you on this...
post edited by djjhart@aol.com - 2011/03/23 21:17:43
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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Scott Lee
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 19:15:36
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FastBikerBoy
5 months? I thought it was March still........ 
Dec jan feb march 23 nearly april. 4 months coming up on 5.
post edited by Scott Lee - 2011/03/23 19:39:55
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trimph1
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 19:23:00
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Doesn't matter anyhow.
How many of you like the idea of beta testing new software that you paid for? But that ends up happening way more than it should be necessary to do.
And that includes all software here....I learned from way back not to put faith in things...they are bound to go poof at some point....
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Scott Lee
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 19:25:54
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"I think we mostly agree. And the car analogy is not that great, a bit of apples and oranges I think. Software is pretty unique and serves a pretty unique market and I agree that software should be thoroughly tested and as bug-free as possible before release which X1 was not. " Replace the work "car" with any name. A product is a product, a duck is a duck however loud it quacks. Point is, you paid for a service, if the service was not provided you would ask for a refund. Unfortunately that choice is null, due to the policy enforcements with software. So, should software have a higher standard of providing accurate accountable data on how much the software has been tested before a release? We have no idea how many months the software was tested, but by my standpoint, its been at least 4 months for sure courtesy of you and I. Best,
post edited by Scott Lee - 2011/03/23 19:40:51
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backwoods
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 19:26:30
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Deemeber 8 to Mar 23 is about 3 and a half months actually. We should all be able to agree on that! 
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Scott Lee
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 19:29:14
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backwoods
Deemeber 8 to Mar 23 is about 3 and a half months actually. We should all be able to agree on that!
Congrats on post number two.
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Wookiee
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 19:39:53
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This may be totally irrelevant, but I have found what appears to be a cure/work around for opening old 8.5.3 and before projects that then end in X1a or b to crash.
I have found if you open your project in safe mode. i.e. select the project to open and then Hold down the shift key before pressing OK or Open.
I then selectively load each plugging as I go, I only load what I recognise and I do not load SONITUS EQ.
Once the project has loaded I save it with a change in the name, I have been adding X1b in the title, then close and reopen the project.
This, as I say appears, to work. Yes you have to go and recreate your EQ which if you have lost of track it is tedious but it is better than the alternative. There ain't gonna be a SONAR 8.5.4 or SONAR 9.x.x. Beside the Pro Channel EQ is much sweeter.
If this is irrelevant then please ignore.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
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UnderTow
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 19:45:07
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HumbleNoise
In my opinion I think it's silly to depend on any software, new or old, for one's livelihood without thorough testing. How about you?
I couldn't agree less. I think one should be able to depend on "new" software for one's livelihood. The fact that we very often can't is a sad state of affairs and not something people should take for granted or accept lightly. UnderTow
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Scott Lee
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 20:05:43
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 20:13:48
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UnderTow
HumbleNoise
In my opinion I think it's silly to depend on any software, new or old, for one's livelihood without thorough testing. How about you?
I couldn't agree less. I think one should be able to depend on "new" software for one's livelihood. The fact that we very often can't is a sad state of affairs and not something people should take for granted or accept lightly.
UnderTow
So UT, you disagree. You think it's not "silly to depend on any software, new or old, for one's livelihood without thorough testing?" Meaning you think it's smart to depend on any software, new or old, for one's livelihood without thorough testing? If you think that's smart and a prudent way to run a software based business then we do indeed disagree. But I think you, sometimes, just like to be disagreeable. No big. The fact that we very often can't is a sad state of affairs and not something people should take for granted or accept lightly.
I agree.
post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/03/23 20:14:54
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 20:14:20
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Scott,
Did you ever get a chance to try X1b?
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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amiller
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 20:27:44
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UnderTow
HumbleNoise
In my opinion I think it's silly to depend on any software, new or old, for one's livelihood without thorough testing. How about you?
I couldn't agree less. I think one should be able to depend on "new" software for one's livelihood. The fact that we very often can't is a sad state of affairs and not something people should take for granted or accept lightly.
UnderTow
I agree... I've been around software for a very long time and I'm dismayed at how we seem to be more and more willing to accept flawed products. Funny, I remember a desktop publishing product called LaTex. Yeah, for you old timers this is really going back a way. The point is the guy who wrote that software issued a promise to PAY a set $$ award for anyone who could find and turn in a bug. Can you imagine...actually standing behind your work? This is from his site: "For a more complete description of the contents, see DEK's Web pages; this includes a complete list of errata so far, along with the usual promise of US$2.56 to the first finder of any bug."
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
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stratman70
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 20:33:06
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FastBikerBoy
+1 for jbridge. I use it on everything that needs a bridge, the improved interface alone is worth the very few £s. You also get personal support from the developer, he emails you the updates. How's that for service?
Ditto-I never use Bitbridge at all-only Jbridge.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 20:38:20
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Scott Lee
backwoods
Deemeber 8 to Mar 23 is about 3 and a half months actually. We should all be able to agree on that!
No........ its 5 months............. 
Congrats on post number two.
Since when has post count equated to being able to use a calender? EDIT: That's not saying the software shouldn't work on release, just that facts are facts no matter how bad the release
post edited by FastBikerBoy - 2011/03/23 20:42:04
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 20:39:57
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...wicked
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 20:49:03
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Well, generally speaking migrating projects UP the version tree is (or should be thought of) as a one-way trip.
Plus, I see and encounter enough problems with projects that span versions in any direction that it is usually a place to look for crash-causes.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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Scott Lee
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 21:32:58
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I think it would be a lot more constructive if instead of sarcastic comments you submitted real problem reports of what residual problems you have accounting for the alleged instability. We just shipped a release of over 200 fixes *directly* in response to user feedback which addressed all the logged issues of relevance as well as many others that were identified internally, including several issues that existed in prior versions.
Its pretty disappointing that some folks are trying to spin this as a negative thing! We can only address the issues we know of.
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Stone House Studios
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 21:56:07
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Its pretty disappointing that some folks are trying to spin this as a negative thing! We can only address the issues we know of. The funny part here, Noel, is that there are many who imply that the product was released (three times now) despite knowing what the issues are (were.) Not in that group myself - but, it seems that it's going to take nothing short of a "We knew and we did it anyway" to make the Noise go away! Brian
Core i7-6700@3.40Ghz Windows 10x64 16 GB RAM Sonar Platinum/Studio One PreSonus Studio 192
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Jonbouy
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 21:57:31
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
I think it would be a lot more constructive if instead of sarcastic comments you submitted real problem reports of what residual problems you have accounting for the alleged instability. We just shipped a release of over 200 fixes *directly* in response to user feedback which addressed all the logged issues of relevance as well as many others that were identified internally, including several issues that existed in prior versions.
Its pretty disappointing that some folks are trying to spin this as a negative thing! We can only address the issues we know of.
Is that truly how you see things Noel? People definitely had show-stopping issues with the original product and there's a long list of published defects that have been corrected here. Are people trying to spin this? Some undoubtedly. Do they want to regain some of the confidence they've had in previous releases? More likely. Why should it be considered a 'free gift', which is the biggest spin relating to this patch release, to have issues addressed that shouldn't be extant in the first place. Besides I'm pretty sure there is still a good long list of known issues that need working on as well the ones that arise from this point on. So that would be a good place to start dealing with the issues you STILL know about, no? These are your paying customers and most of them are not negative for the sake of it and I find it breathtaking to think that you are dissappointed with any of them aside from the minority that just want to cause problems. An apology would have been more appropiate than futher dismissals of the great unwashed that actually stand by your products despite the difficulties they've had.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/03/23 22:02:53
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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trimph1
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 21:59:59
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^^^+1 I hope this was not about all the problems that were discussed...I do feel for these guys as well...why should the small number who came to cause trouble be allowed to become indicative of all ?
post edited by trimph1 - 2011/03/23 22:02:54
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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John
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 22:00:37
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Noel I think there are far more users that are happy with X1 then not. I wouldn't let this forum get to you in any way other then to see how vocal the few are in their dislike of what many of us see as a great first start. I have been reporting that I have not had any major issues with X1. I think that there are still areas to be worked on but over all its a great DAW and one that will get better over time.
I thank you for what your team has done to fix so many reported bugs. I do know that the list does not include all the fixes either.
Just keep on doing what you are doing and it will all work out.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 22:03:37
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Being constructive in a forum, as in real life, is an art form and if it were I in charge of making my software better I'd also prefer constructive to negativity and sarcasm. Probably not going to happen in this forum but I do understand the request. Doesn't seem out of line to me but I'm trying to be constructive wherever possible.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:X1(b) - No Confidence?
2011/03/23 22:06:26
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Jonbouy
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
I think it would be a lot more constructive if instead of sarcastic comments you submitted real problem reports of what residual problems you have accounting for the alleged instability. We just shipped a release of over 200 fixes *directly* in response to user feedback which addressed all the logged issues of relevance as well as many others that were identified internally, including several issues that existed in prior versions.
Its pretty disappointing that some folks are trying to spin this as a negative thing! We can only address the issues we know of.
Is that truly how you see things Noel?
People definitely had show-stopping issues with the original product and there's a long list of published defects that have been corrected here.
Are people trying to spin this? Some undoubtedly. Do they want to regain some of the confidence they've had in previous releases? More likely.
Why should it be considered a 'free gift', which is the biggest spin relating to this patch release, to have issues addressed that shouldn't be extant in the first place.
Besides I'm pretty sure there is still a good long list of known issues that need working on as well the ones that arise from this point on. So that would be a good place to start dealing with the issues you STILL know about, no?
These are your paying customers and most of them are not negative for the sake of it and I find it breathtaking to think that you are dissappointed with any of them aside from the minority that just want to cause problems.
An apology would have been more appropiate than futher dismissals of the great unwashed that actually stand by your products despite the difficulties they've had.
At first I wasn't going to respond because I understand the CW people (including Noel) must be a little sensitive to all this -- but I have to say I agree with you Jobouy. I'm a little surprised much of this is seen as "spin." I think the real spin came at the release of X1. There were some big issues. There remain some issues. People -- the users/customers -- have gone through a lot. Most are sincere and not bashing CW but are expressing disappointment and angst. That's not spin. That's important feedback. A defensive posture won't solve anything.
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