Helpful ReplyX2 Keeps crashing

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lahteedah
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/03 09:21:58 (permalink)
robert_e_bone
OK - let's take a step back.
 
First of all, the original poster lists an EMU 0404 USB audio interface, and is running Windows 8.
 
The EMU 0404 USB audio interface is NO LONGER SUPPORTED by Emu.
 
I do not believe there are any Windows 8 drivers for that discontinued interface - NO Windows drivers show up on the lone support page out there on the EMU site for that interface.  It is listed there as 'At the end of its service life'.
 
The EMU 0404 USB interface was designed and released for XP 32/64, and while I am not sure if there were even any Windows 7 drivers for it, I AM certain that there are not any currently available, AND there are certainly no Windows 8 drivers available for it.
 
To the original poster - your interface is NOT compatible with Windows 8, and as a discontinued and unsupported product, will NEVER be compatible with Windows 8.
 
It is possible that it might function under Windows 7, but I am not certain of that.  IF you happen to have a valid Windows 7 installation disc, you could attempt to completely reload your PC, using Windows 7, but you would have to reload all data and any installed programs, as the entire OS partition would be wiped out.  (backing up any data would be prudent PRIOR to wiping out your Windows 8 install).  There are no guarantees that the interface would work on Windows 7, although some dim part of my brain makes me think that a friend of mine is running Windows 7 with that same interface, though it may be Vista.
 
You could also go back to a Windows XP install, but again, you would have to back up any data you wanted retained, because the reload of the prior version of Windows would of course wipe out anything on the hard drive.  IN ADDITION, XP is NOT supported for running X2, and X2a will simply NOT install, due to minimum system requirements for Windows 7 at Service Pack 1 maintenance levels.
 
It is my recommendation that you consider upgrading your audio interface, to one that DOES have Windows 8 drivers.  An equivalent interface to the EMU 0404 USB would run somewhere between $140-$200 USD, approximately.
 
I also need to point out that 4 GB is pretty 'lean' for memory to be running Sonar.  IF your laptop supports 8 GB of memory, you might want to look at either adding a second 4 GB strip (about $20 these days), or if the memory currently in there is 2 2GB strips you would need to add 2 4GB strips, for a total of around $40 USD.  MAKE SURE that you check out the specifications for your laptop so you can confirm it will support 8 GB of memory.  (not all of them do).
 
I hope that helps.
 
To some of the folks who have commented as 'factual' that X2a is not stable, I disagree.  There are currently no show stopper bugs in the X2a release - in terms of global crashes.  Yes, there are bugs and annoyances, but X2a itself IS stable, to the best of my knowledge.
 
Instability, as born out in the myriad of threads in this forum, on systems that ARE running X2a, ends up being determined to be one or more of the following conditions:
 
1.  User error
2.  Hardware error
3.  Systems not meeting minimum levels for running Sonar, as specified on the Cakewalk site for X2/X2a.
4.  Audio interface problems, most often with drivers
5.  Interference from other installed applications, such as some anti-virus software, etc.
6.  Not following recommended installation procedures, either for new installs or for removal and re-installation of X2/X2a
7.  Windows maintenance not being current
8.  Settings mismatch between Sonar and the audio interface
9.  Improper driver settings 
10.  Plugins - third-party software, usually 32-bit plugins running in 64-bit Sonar using BitBridge or Jbridge, or badly written 64-bit plugins.
11.  X2 itself had some show stoppers, for which Cakewalk released a quick fix.  X2a addressed more than 250 bugs, so if someone is still running the base X2 release, they may well have a bunch of problems.  Upgrade, in that event.
12. User error (yeah, I know I listed it twice)
 
 
There are I am sure some additional conditions I have not listed, but none of those are product-wide failures - show stoppers.  Some folks may not like the post-X direction of the UI design in Sonar, and some folks may not like some of the current functionality, or may find annoyance with some of the ways things work, or in the case of the existing bugs, may not like the workarounds available, but that is a different matter than stability itself.
 
Bob Bone
 


Hi Robert,
 
I called Sonar Tech and asked if Emu 0404 usb would work on my system and got the thumbs up.  also, it IS compatible with Windows 8.   I've been using emu for years.  I know when that is not working properly.  I have to reload driver but it has little or nothing to do with crashing.  Crashing always happens when i click something (mouse) and it can't take it.  
I do have X2a installed.
no anti virus software.
Buying the $20 hard drive strip is a good idea.  Thank you

Richard
Sonar X2 Producer
Intel Core i5-3230M Processor (2.6 GHz)
4 GB DDR3 RAM
500 GB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
Windows 8
E-MU 0404 USB soundcard  Casio Midi Keyboard
White wine
#31
equality
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/03 09:38:42 (permalink)
Richard,
 
Interesting to read your story. What annoys me is that many Sonarists tend to individualize crashing problems to the very CW-customer and do not hold the company responsable for those common problems. Doing that, they send an "ok" for future program versions of DAW:s were stability is of less importance and so the vicious circle goes on and on. Sonar 8.54 was by far the most stable version ever and I am tempted to downgrade. The versions after that have all been premature. No shadows on Ryan and Andrew, they do a great job on webinars and stuff. I think it's a mutual thing. If we, the customers, don't agree that stability comes first, secondly all those fancy plugs, we get the DAW we deserve. Referring to H C Andersen again - it's the Emperor's new clothes.
 
Greetings!
 
Mikael
   
post edited by equality - 2013/09/03 09:49:25

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lahteedah
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/03 09:39:31 (permalink)
my 4GB probably can't cut it is my guess.

Richard
Sonar X2 Producer
Intel Core i5-3230M Processor (2.6 GHz)
4 GB DDR3 RAM
500 GB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
Windows 8
E-MU 0404 USB soundcard  Casio Midi Keyboard
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#33
lahteedah
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/03 09:44:16 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
lahteedah
I've had Producer X2 for about 4 months.  I use it daily.  It crashes all the time.  It seems to be easily overwhelmed.
I bought a new laptop just for X2.  Its a lenevo idea pad, i5 processor, 4GB memory, 500GB hard drive.
 
I don't know what i'm doing to make it crash ALL THE TIME.



Crashing can stem from multiple sources (RAM, drivers, bridged 32Bit plugins, etc).
What are you using as an audio interface?
 
I'd take a methodical trouble-shooting approach to find the culprit.
 
Start by testing your system's RAM (using Memtest)... then I'd run a stress-test to make sure the core hardware is OK.
DDR3 is the most common hardware component to fail in a modern machine.  Don't assume that because it's new that all is well.  Test to be 100% sure.
Once you're sure the core hardware is OK, then the issue is config, driver, or software related.
 
Check to see what's running in the background.
Lenovo (by default) has 101 applets installed/running in the background.
Uninstall the "sludge" and shutdown anything that's not absolutely necessary.
 
Next, check your system's DPC latency.
To effectively work at low audio latency, you need the system's DPC latency to be low/consistent.
Any large spikes will cause dropouts/glitches.
 
If you're using the laptop's onboard audio, get a dedicated audio interface (rock-solid USB units can be had for ~$200) that offers a proper ASIO driver.
 
With 4GB of RAM, extensive projects (especially those with plugins that load large sample libraries into RAM  - like Superior 2.0), can easily consume more than 4GB of RAM.
At best, this would cause the machine to constantly hit the VM swapfile... which kills performance.
At worst, it could cause the machine to crash.
 
If you're using 32Bit plugins in the 64Bit version of Sonar, they're bridged.
Some plugins cope well with being bridged... others don't.  This is a common source of issues.
You can try jBridge (3rd party bridging application)... to see if that resolves issues with a particular problematic 32Bit plugin/s.
 
If you go step-by-step, you can solve (or work around) most issues.


Hi Jim,
 
I checked the off all items here and the only things left are the 4GB of RAM and/or the 32bit plugins.
 
I'll try the jBridge if i find 32bit plugins.  (I have been shedding most foreign plugins anyway)

Richard
Sonar X2 Producer
Intel Core i5-3230M Processor (2.6 GHz)
4 GB DDR3 RAM
500 GB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
Windows 8
E-MU 0404 USB soundcard  Casio Midi Keyboard
White wine
#34
Leadfoot
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/03 09:46:41 (permalink)
I only have 4Gb and I don't have any problems with Sonar, although I do realize not all ram is created equal.
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stevec
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/03 14:31:22 (permalink)
equality
stevec: The general Google search is, as said, for what it's worth but it does tell you that crashes is not solely a Sonar phenomenon. Crashes related to Cubase 7 were abundant according other sites and this could of course not be illustrated by single Google search. The fact though that Sonar is in "good" company with other crashing DAW manufacturers, doesn't free CW from the responsibility to provide stable music programs. Logic and Samplitude have been added to list.
 
 


Ah...  gotcha.  Thanks.   I find it interesting that SONAR falls in a similar range to FL Studio, only because I never "hear" much about its overall stability.  I also find it interesting that PT and Logic are so far ahead, and that (again) Studio One is sitting at the top...way up top.   FWIW, when I do a Google search the numbers I get back are less than what you've shown, though still relatively proportional.  But you are correct  - SONAR is in good company. 
 
Overall though, SONAR has never been a crash-fest for me on any machine or any OS - three of each in my case.   Some may say that I've simply been lucky, but I would counter by saying that perhaps those with uncooperative systems are simply unlucky, and that my general experience is actually more the norm.   Well, except maybe for on these forums, of course. 

SteveC
https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
 
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Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO);
Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
 
#36
jscomposer
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/03 15:48:04 (permalink)
LOL! That's hilarius about PT being so far ahead....what a joke. IMO, it is literally the bottom of the DAW heap (and most expensive). The ONLY reason I use it is for project delivery. Other than that, it is a nightmare and crash-fest.
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equality
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/03 16:21:50 (permalink)
Jscomposer, without being a statistician, I don't think one may draw any conclusions from that simple Google search except that crashes is an issue with any known DAW. I mean Toyota for instance claims that they have the most satified car owners. Mercedes owners perhaps are inclined to complain a lot more and that makes MB look like a car with less quality. Also the numbers of any DAW out there would naturally correlate to the numbers on complaints found on the internet. It surprises me though that there don't seem to be any objective crash tests on different DAW:s on big sites like Gearsluts or Sound-on-Sound. I mean it wouldn't be that difficult to test the different DAW:s in that perspective in the same computer setups. Anybody seen tests like that? 

Intel Core i7 - 2600K 3,4GHz 16GB RAM Asus P8Z68-V SSD 2 x (Corsair 120 GB Force 3) 2 x (Seagate S-ATA 250 GB) 1 USB Seagate 1 TB  VS-100 Sonar X1d, X2a and X3d.
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Living Room Rocker
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/04 01:27:12 (permalink)
lahteedah
 
Hello,
 
I've had Producer X2 for about 4 months.  I use it daily.  It crashes all the time.  It seems to be easily overwhelmed.
I bought a new laptop just for X2.  Its a lenevo idea pad, i5 processor, 4GB memory, 500GB hard drive.
 
I don't know what i'm doing to make it crash ALL THE TIME.
 
Has anyone had this problem?
Thanks,
 
Richard




Have you considered investing in some airbags?  My guess is you have a 5400 rpm HDD.  I'm afraid you may have sold yourself a little short if your new laptop is for X2 PRODUCER.  Those specs give little to none to take advantage of SONAR's full capabilities.  Maybe Essentials would have met your needs and better match your hardware.
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lahteedah
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/04 09:59:14 (permalink)
Living Room Rocker
lahteedah
 
Hello,
 
I've had Producer X2 for about 4 months.  I use it daily.  It crashes all the time.  It seems to be easily overwhelmed.
I bought a new laptop just for X2.  Its a lenevo idea pad, i5 processor, 4GB memory, 500GB hard drive.
 
I don't know what i'm doing to make it crash ALL THE TIME.
 
Has anyone had this problem?
Thanks,
 
Richard




Have you considered investing in some airbags?  My guess is you have a 5400 rpm HDD.  I'm afraid you may have sold yourself a little short if your new laptop is for X2 PRODUCER.  Those specs give little to none to take advantage of SONAR's full capabilities.  Maybe Essentials would have met your needs and better match your hardware.




Yep.  You're right....only i can't even afford airbags now. 

Richard
Sonar X2 Producer
Intel Core i5-3230M Processor (2.6 GHz)
4 GB DDR3 RAM
500 GB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
Windows 8
E-MU 0404 USB soundcard  Casio Midi Keyboard
White wine
#40
lawp
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/04 10:23:38 (permalink)
5400 HDD is OK but get more RAM; whatever, a slow hard drive should not cause an application crash! 8-S
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cliffr
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/04 23:06:25 (permalink)
Just wondering if you've used the "Replace Synth" option in the projects which are crashing ?.
 
I have used the "Replace Synth" a couple of times, and the projects seem to be extremely crash prone after that.
They crash "All the time".
 
Had to create new projects, and copy all the data over.
 
Cheers - Cliff

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#42
lahteedah
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Re: X2 Keeps crashing 2013/09/05 00:01:37 (permalink)
cliffr
Just wondering if you've used the "Replace Synth" option in the projects which are crashing ?.
 
I have used the "Replace Synth" a couple of times, and the projects seem to be extremely crash prone after that.
They crash "All the time".
 
Had to create new projects, and copy all the data over.
 
Cheers - Cliff


I don't know what that is.   will investigate....i don't think i've ever done it.

Richard
Sonar X2 Producer
Intel Core i5-3230M Processor (2.6 GHz)
4 GB DDR3 RAM
500 GB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
Windows 8
E-MU 0404 USB soundcard  Casio Midi Keyboard
White wine
#43
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