X2 Keeps crashing

Jim Roseberry

lahteedah
I've had Producer X2 for about 4 months.  I use it daily.  It crashes all the time.  It seems to be easily overwhelmed.
I bought a new laptop just for X2.  Its a lenevo idea pad, i5 processor, 4GB memory, 500GB hard drive.
 
I don't know what i'm doing to make it crash ALL THE TIME.

Crashing can stem from multiple sources (RAM, drivers, bridged 32Bit plugins, etc).
What are you using as an audio interface?
 
I'd take a methodical trouble-shooting approach to find the culprit.
 
Start by testing your system's RAM (using Memtest)... then I'd run a stress-test to make sure the core hardware is OK.
DDR3 is the most common hardware component to fail in a modern machine.  Don't assume that because it's new that all is well.  Test to be 100% sure.
Once you're sure the core hardware is OK, then the issue is config, driver, or software related.
 
Check to see what's running in the background.
Lenovo (by default) has 101 applets installed/running in the background.
Uninstall the "sludge" and shutdown anything that's not absolutely necessary.
 
Next, check your system's DPC latency.
To effectively work at low audio latency, you need the system's DPC latency to be low/consistent.
Any large spikes will cause dropouts/glitches.
 
If you're using the laptop's onboard audio, get a dedicated audio interface (rock-solid USB units can be had for ~$200) that offers a proper ASIO driver.
 
With 4GB of RAM, extensive projects (especially those with plugins that load large sample libraries into RAM  - like Superior 2.0), can easily consume more than 4GB of RAM.
At best, this would cause the machine to constantly hit the VM swapfile... which kills performance.
At worst, it could cause the machine to crash.
 
If you're using 32Bit plugins in the 64Bit version of Sonar, they're bridged.
Some plugins cope well with being bridged... others don't.  This is a common source of issues.
You can try jBridge (3rd party bridging application)... to see if that resolves issues with a particular problematic 32Bit plugin/s.
 
If you go step-by-step, you can solve (or work around) most issues.

I have E-MU 0404 USB soundcard (ASIO).  This is very helpful, Jim.  I'll go down list tonight.
 
Thank you!

lahteedah
 
Hello,
 
I've had Producer X2 for about 4 months.  I use it daily.  It crashes all the time.  It seems to be easily overwhelmed.
I bought a new laptop just for X2.  Its a lenevo idea pad, i5 processor, 4GB memory, 500GB hard drive.
 
I don't know what i'm doing to make it crash ALL THE TIME.
 
Has anyone had this problem?
Thanks,
 
Richard

As others have stated there can be multiple root causes of the crashes. I was using my home office computer with 3.4 GHz i7-2600 with 16 GB or RAM. It was very stable unless I tried to run two or more instances of sample modeling brass/wind instruments. Crashed every time. Solution was to "freeze" the soft-synths.
I then purchased an ADK Pro computer as shown in my signature. It can take anything I can throw at it. Expensive but I can't leave it all to the kids...
 
Walt
 
 

lahteedah

Pragi
Can you give more info about about your laptop aso?
The hd  (if 5400 rpm) can also be a reason for crashes  

I do believe it IS 5400rpm.
 
dang it.
 
 
 

Hi,
if it´s 5400 rpm and you want to record aso, I would recommend to change it for a 7200 rpm or ssd,
because most of the 5400rpm  hd´s need more then 15 ms to read, means you are having 
tooooo loooong latencies. 

Pragi

lahteedah

Pragi
Can you give more info about about your laptop aso?
The hd  (if 5400 rpm) can also be a reason for crashes  

I do believe it IS 5400rpm.
 
dang it.
 
 
 

Hi,
if it´s 5400 rpm and you want to record aso, I would recommend to change it for a 7200 rpm or ssd,
because most of the 5400rpm  hd´s need more then 15 ms to read, means you are having 
tooooo loooong latencies. 

For hard drives the important parameter of interest is "Access Time" or the time it takes before the drive can actually transfer data. The two main components of access time are "Seek Time", which is the time it takes for the Voice Coil Actuator to move the head assembly to the specific track where the required data is stored, and "Rotational Latency" which is the delay time waiting for the rotation of the disk to bring the required disk sector under the read-write head.
 
Depending on the design of the HDD, a 5400 RPM drive might have a faster access time than a 7200 RPM drive. Need to check the specs and get the fastest/highest capacity you can afford.
 
Walt
 

burkek

Pragi
The hd  (if 5400 rpm) can also be a reason for crashes  

I hate this kind of uninformed misinformation. A 5400 RPM drive will merely slow loading of the operating system, slow large program load times and data access. It will not crash Microsoft Word. It will not crash Adobe Photoshop. It will not crash Sonar X2.
 
Sonar X2 is crash-prone though when compared to other DAWs on the same system.
 
KEv

Hi, 
sure a too slow hd can cause crashes of a sequencer, specially during recording sessions aso.
I wrote "can"

grumbleweed4162

Pragi

burkek

PragiThe hd  (if 5400 rpm) can also be a reason for crashes  

I hate this kind of uninformed misinformation. A 5400 RPM drive will merely slow loading of the operating system, slow large program load times and data access. It will not crash Microsoft Word. It will not crash Adobe Photoshop. It will not crash Sonar X2. Sonar X2 is crash-prone though when compared to other DAWs on the same system. KEv

Hi, sure a too slow hd can cause crashes of a sequencer, specially during recording sessions aso.I wrote "can"

I don't think I've ever read someone saying that a 5400 rpm drive isn't a problem when using a modern DAW.
Let's face it, Sonar needs as much help as possible to run sweetly so a laggy hard drive isn't going to enhance the performance one bit.

Grum.

Dropouts yes. Crash no.

WDI

grumbleweed4162

Pragi

burkek

PragiThe hd  (if 5400 rpm) can also be a reason for crashes  

I hate this kind of uninformed misinformation. A 5400 RPM drive will merely slow loading of the operating system, slow large program load times and data access. It will not crash Microsoft Word. It will not crash Adobe Photoshop. It will not crash Sonar X2. Sonar X2 is crash-prone though when compared to other DAWs on the same system. KEv

Hi, sure a too slow hd can cause crashes of a sequencer, specially during recording sessions aso.I wrote "can"

I don't think I've ever read someone saying that a 5400 rpm drive isn't a problem when using a modern DAW.
Let's face it, Sonar needs as much help as possible to run sweetly so a laggy hard drive isn't going to enhance the performance one bit.

Grum.

Dropouts yes. Crash no.

I'm not aware that Sonar does dropouts. On my system it either works or it crashes - there's no in between.
Propellerhead's Reason will give you message stating your computer is too slow to play the project but Sonar just stops responding....game over and 5 minutes spent trying to kill it in task manager etc.
Sorry but I'm a bit bitter and twisted as I went through this a couple of days ago - why doesn't Sonar let you know there is a problem rather than just giving up?

Grum.

First, If you're using a single 5400RPM boot drive in a laptop, you shouldn't be trying to record to it.
Not for stability issues... rather for performance related issues.
Record to an eSATA or USB-3 external HD.
 
MacBook Pro laptops use a 5400RPM HD.
They run hot as hades... but they don't crash when recording audio.    
 

Hi guys! I have X2 Pro win7 amd 4 cores phenom 16 go ram 3 fast HDD drives Roland quadcapture soundcard, tried to ajust latency...still crashes...audio dropouts...I installed the A patch....no solution. My PC isn't a laptop, of course.
You have an idea?

OK - let's take a step back.
 
First of all, the original poster lists an EMU 0404 USB audio interface, and is running Windows 8.
 
The EMU 0404 USB audio interface is NO LONGER SUPPORTED by Emu.
 
I do not believe there are any Windows 8 drivers for that discontinued interface - NO Windows drivers show up on the lone support page out there on the EMU site for that interface.  It is listed there as 'At the end of its service life'.
 
The EMU 0404 USB interface was designed and released for XP 32/64, and while I am not sure if there were even any Windows 7 drivers for it, I AM certain that there are not any currently available, AND there are certainly no Windows 8 drivers available for it.
 
To the original poster - your interface is NOT compatible with Windows 8, and as a discontinued and unsupported product, will NEVER be compatible with Windows 8.
 
It is possible that it might function under Windows 7, but I am not certain of that.  IF you happen to have a valid Windows 7 installation disc, you could attempt to completely reload your PC, using Windows 7, but you would have to reload all data and any installed programs, as the entire OS partition would be wiped out.  (backing up any data would be prudent PRIOR to wiping out your Windows 8 install).  There are no guarantees that the interface would work on Windows 7, although some dim part of my brain makes me think that a friend of mine is running Windows 7 with that same interface, though it may be Vista.
 
You could also go back to a Windows XP install, but again, you would have to back up any data you wanted retained, because the reload of the prior version of Windows would of course wipe out anything on the hard drive.  IN ADDITION, XP is NOT supported for running X2, and X2a will simply NOT install, due to minimum system requirements for Windows 7 at Service Pack 1 maintenance levels.
 
It is my recommendation that you consider upgrading your audio interface, to one that DOES have Windows 8 drivers.  An equivalent interface to the EMU 0404 USB would run somewhere between $140-$200 USD, approximately.
 
I also need to point out that 4 GB is pretty 'lean' for memory to be running Sonar.  IF your laptop supports 8 GB of memory, you might want to look at either adding a second 4 GB strip (about $20 these days), or if the memory currently in there is 2 2GB strips you would need to add 2 4GB strips, for a total of around $40 USD.  MAKE SURE that you check out the specifications for your laptop so you can confirm it will support 8 GB of memory.  (not all of them do).
 
I hope that helps.
 
To some of the folks who have commented as 'factual' that X2a is not stable, I disagree.  There are currently no show stopper bugs in the X2a release - in terms of global crashes.  Yes, there are bugs and annoyances, but X2a itself IS stable, to the best of my knowledge.
 
Instability, as born out in the myriad of threads in this forum, on systems that ARE running X2a, ends up being determined to be one or more of the following conditions:
 
1.  User error
2.  Hardware error
3.  Systems not meeting minimum levels for running Sonar, as specified on the Cakewalk site for X2/X2a.
4.  Audio interface problems, most often with drivers
5.  Interference from other installed applications, such as some anti-virus software, etc.
6.  Not following recommended installation procedures, either for new installs or for removal and re-installation of X2/X2a
7.  Windows maintenance not being current
8.  Settings mismatch between Sonar and the audio interface
9.  Improper driver settings 
10.  Plugins - third-party software, usually 32-bit plugins running in 64-bit Sonar using BitBridge or Jbridge, or badly written 64-bit plugins.
11.  X2 itself had some show stoppers, for which Cakewalk released a quick fix.  X2a addressed more than 250 bugs, so if someone is still running the base X2 release, they may well have a bunch of problems.  Upgrade, in that event.
12. User error (yeah, I know I listed it twice)
 
 
There are I am sure some additional conditions I have not listed, but none of those are product-wide failures - show stoppers.  Some folks may not like the post-X direction of the UI design in Sonar, and some folks may not like some of the current functionality, or may find annoyance with some of the ways things work, or in the case of the existing bugs, may not like the workarounds available, but that is a different matter than stability itself.
 
Bob Bone
 

@equality - Regarding the posted crashes above, there is no associated detail, no product versions listed, and no sub-categorization of crash nature.
 
Just because any of the above products crash, it does not then hold that the DAW product itself is responsible.
 
If I plug my Presonus AudioBox 1818VSL audio interface into a USB 3.0 port and then fire up Sonar, it is NOT Sonar's fault that anything is unstable, it is MY fault for not following the directions on the type of port to connect the interface to.
 
If a 32-bit plugin from some 3rd-party coder cannot handle running in a 64-bit installation of Sonar, with BitBridge OR JBridge, it is and will always be the fault of the plugin in question, and not the DAW - whoever's DAW that happens to be.
 
Etc....
 
If you want to get a better set of search results for Sonar-CAUSED crashes, Google something along these lines:
 
'site:cakewalk.com forum x2 crash' (without the quotes), and then wade through the returned threads to see where the CAUSES of the crashes is determined to in fact be Sonar itself, and post THOSE results.  That will still not account for any crashes not reported to the forum, but it should provide far more meaningful results than the generic ones that were posted earlier.
 
If indeed there are such crashes, and there may well be, it would be good to keep them actively listed here in the forum, so that others can seek to avoid the same fate.  My intent in asking for this is to sweep aside general conclusions that are represented as fact, when in fact there are not substantiated data to support the claims.
 
And it is also not fair to quote some other posted comment about Sonar (or any DAW) as being crash-prone as proof that it IS in fact crash-prone, when the original comment that was quoted is posted with no substantiation.
 
To the best of my knowledge, there WERE some issues with X2, and Cakewalk fairly quickly released a quick fix to address what really were some show stoppers, and then the X2a update addressed something above 250 bugs.  Since X2a's release, I have not seen ANY show stopper crashes that were determined to be the fault of X2a.  Crashes have CERTAINLY occurred in X2a, but I have not seen ANY determination that these were in fact the fault of Sonar X2a.
 
Bob Bone
 

stevec: The general Google search is, as said, for what it's worth but it does tell you that crashes is not solely a Sonar phenomenon. Crashes related to Cubase 7 were abundant according other sites and this could of course not be illustrated by single Google search. The fact though that Sonar is in "good" company with other crashing DAW manufacturers, doesn't free CW from the responsibility to provide stable music programs. Logic and Samplitude have been added to list.
Bob: Plze don't make a DAW's instability problems as a user's issue of ignorance, lack of knowledge or being lazy not turning every stone upside down in the computer.
As mentioned I have been with Sonar since version 1.2. I have built three different dedicated computers for music production. I have a similar set up as you do (well, just half of the impressive 32 GB of RAM and no Swedish fish ;-)) My system doesn't crash very often but the fact that it does now and then is frustrating since it may ruin hours of work.
I think you should ask your self:
1) Why did CW let out 250 bugs with Sonar X2 in the first place? Are we official beta-testers or what?
2) Remember all issues with Sonar X1. Were all the owners of crashing computers ignorant users?
3) Sonar X2 has a built in crash report program. Great, but why doesn't CW respond to those reports as promised in the first e-mail auto-replied?? Of course this last question doesn't apply to you Bob since you don't have any crashes.
4) Why is it so important to you to defend CW as you probable know that much more experience computer users than you and I have problems with this particular DAW's stability?
 
Sorry, lathedaa for high jacking your thread but I just had to let this out since this, in a broader sense, has to do with a company's principle responsibilities to its customers.
 
Sincerely,
 
Mikael
 
 

shmuelyosef
To the OP...did you previously run X1 on the same system? If so, was it stable? Curious whether this is X2 vs X1 or just Sonar crashing on your machine?

Hi,
No.  i ran x1 on a different system and although it dropped out often it rarely crashed unless it was a CPU overload.
BTW: my previous pc was far under spec for X1 and it flowed much better.
This laptop with X2 just is extremely moody

dimelives1
OP: Just curious, are you using SONAR version X2a?...

I have the most recent update whatever it is.....just downloaded a couple weeks ago.