PTravel
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X3 VST Scan issue
After installation (an upgrade from X2), none of my VST3s showed up, nor did some VST2s. I tried the "Reset and rescreen" trick recommended by Cakewalk, but that didn't work either. Worse, Sonar crashed a couple of times in the process, usually when I tried to use the plug-in manager for scanning. The last time, Sonar not only crashed, but it took down my computer -- everything went black and the machine rebooted. This is the first time I've seen ANY software mess up so badly that it took Win7 down without a BSD. I'm going to try uninstalling X3, uninstalling X2, doing a manual registry scrub and file delete from User Data and then re-install. I've never had this kind of trouble with a Cakewalk product, and I've been using this DAW since it wasn't yet a DAW and just a sequencer called Cakewalk.
post edited by Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk] - 2013/10/01 12:01:24
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karhide
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 10:33:23
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You do not list the spec of your machine, OS or audio interface if you have seen a BSD I would look more to the drivers of the audio interface than Sonar X3.
Studio: Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 32GB RAM Samsung Evo 1TB system drive Windows 10 64bit - RME FireFace UFX - Focusrite OctoPre MK II - Audient Mico Mobile: Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 8GB RAM Samsung Evo 1TB system drive Windows 10 64bit - RME FireFace 400 Mobile2: Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 8GB RAM 256 GB System Drive Windows 10 64 bit http://www.karhide.co.uk/https://karhide.bandcamp.com
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djwayne
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 10:37:14
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My TSAR-1R Soft Tube reverb VST3 unit is working perfectly.
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 10:45:41
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karhide
You do not list the spec of your machine, OS or audio interface if you have seen a BSD I would look more to the drivers of the audio interface than Sonar X3.
It's Win 7 on a quad-core 2.6 GHz Intel machine with 8 gb of RAM that I built myself. The interface is a Fast Track Ultra. It did not crash because of the interface or the OS, but because of a problem handling VSTs. It did NOT blue screen -- the final time it took down the whole machine and caused a hard reboot. X2 (nor any other version of Cakewalk/Sonar) never had any problems so severe as to take down the entire system, particularly in Win7. The VST3s that are not showing up include Ozone 5 and Celemony, both of which I bought and have been using for a year or more.
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Zo
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 10:47:38
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try to avoid the scanning of VST 3 just to see ...one VST 3 instance is loking it ...
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karhide
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 10:55:02
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PTravel
karhide
You do not list the spec of your machine, OS or audio interface if you have seen a BSD I would look more to the drivers of the audio interface than Sonar X3.
It's Win 7 on a quad-core 2.6 GHz Intel machine with 8 gb of RAM that I built myself. The interface is a Fast Track Ultra. It did not crash because of the interface or the OS, but because of a problem handling VSTs. It did NOT blue screen -- the final time it took down the whole machine and caused a hard reboot. X2 (nor any other version of Cakewalk/Sonar) never had any problems so severe as to take down the entire system, particularly in Win7.
The VST3s that are not showing up include Ozone 5 and Celemony, both of which I bought and have been using for a year or more.
The reboot of the machine sounds like a BSD and would depend on the machine settings if you see the blue screen or the machine will just reboot or as you called it a hard reboot. Did you install the VST3 plugins at the same time as the VST2 plugs and is the folder you installed them in to scanned by Sonar?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 12:47:49
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>> everything went black and the machine rebooted.
I'm sorry that you are having trouble, but the fact that your machine is rebooting means some driver is blowing up. There is no other way that this can happen, other than faulty RAM or some other hardware failure.
A simple vst scan cannot cause this on its own unless, some of your plugins have copy protection and the driver involved with the copy protection is blowing up. If you look at the event viewer in Windows you should be able to find an event that shows which driver crashed. Once you know that you can troubleshoot it from there.
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:02:29
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karhide
PTravel
karhide
You do not list the spec of your machine, OS or audio interface if you have seen a BSD I would look more to the drivers of the audio interface than Sonar X3.
It's Win 7 on a quad-core 2.6 GHz Intel machine with 8 gb of RAM that I built myself. The interface is a Fast Track Ultra. It did not crash because of the interface or the OS, but because of a problem handling VSTs. It did NOT blue screen -- the final time it took down the whole machine and caused a hard reboot. X2 (nor any other version of Cakewalk/Sonar) never had any problems so severe as to take down the entire system, particularly in Win7.
The VST3s that are not showing up include Ozone 5 and Celemony, both of which I bought and have been using for a year or more.
The reboot of the machine sounds like a BSD It's not a BSD, which means "Blue Screen of Death." When the OS catches a serious error, it does a BSD and creates a dump file. That's not what happened. and would depend on the machine settings if you see the blue screen or the machine will just reboot or as you called it a hard reboot. I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. The BSD is an OS feature that permits identifying problems by examining the dump file. A hard reboot cuts power to the machine and restarts it as if it was just turned on. A soft reboot doesn't cut power and simply causes a jump to the entry point of the BIOS. Did you install the VST3 plugins at the same time as the VST2 plugs and is the folder you installed them in to scanned by Sonar?
All my VSTs were installed as I acquired them. And, yes, the folder is scanned by Sonar.
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Leee
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:05:00
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I was having a similar problem before X3 came out. I had a brand new machine that kept rebooting for no apparent reason. I sent it back to Magic Micro (where I had it built) and they replaced the ram, but when they sent it back I was still having the same problem. I deleted Bitdefender and started using Windows antivirus and firewall software, I also deleted a bunch of non-essential software that "phoned home", like auto update software for Adobe. After that I haven't been having any kind of problem.
For the plugins in X3, I was pleasantly surprised that it not only found ALL of my previous plugins from earlier Sonar versions, but it arranged them in a very orderly manner unlike before, the VST plugins are now arranged in groups according to uses (vocals, mixing, guitar amp sims, etc.) I thought that was a very nice touch!
Lee Shapirowww.soundclick.com/leeshapiro Welcome BandLab and thank you for giving Cakewalk and Sonar a new lease on life.
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:08:55
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PTravel
After installation (an upgrade from X2), none of my VST3s showed up, nor did some VST2s. I tried the "Reset and rescreen" trick recommended by Cakewalk, but that didn't work either. Worse, Sonar crashed a couple of times in the process, usually when I tried to use the plug-in manager for scanning. The last time, Sonar not only crashed, but it took down my computer -- everything went black and the machine rebooted. This is the first time I've seen ANY software mess up so badly that it took Win7 down without a BSD.
I'm going to try uninstalling X3, uninstalling X2, doing a manual registry scrub and file delete from User Data and then re-install.
I've never had this kind of trouble with a Cakewalk product, and I've been using this DAW since it wasn't yet a DAW and just a sequencer called Cakewalk.
Are you by any chance using any UAD cards?
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:15:14
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
>> everything went black and the machine rebooted.
/
I'm sorry that you are having trouble, but the fact that your machine is rebooting means some driver is blowing up. There is no other way that this can happen, other than faulty RAM or some other hardware failure. And. with all due respect, I disagree. JMPs to protected memory can cause a hard boot like this. A simple vst scan cannot cause this on its own It shouldn't but, nonetheless, it did. The "simple VST scan" caused X3 crash twice. The third time, when it did the hard re-boot, X3 was open and I ran the VST configuration program as a standalone. I loaded all the VSTs I wanted into a new preset and, when I tried to save it (with X3 opened) it crashed as described. unless, some of your plugins have copy protection and the driver involved with the copy protection is blowing up. None of the drivers that I use have copy protection. If you look at the event viewer in Windows you should be able to find an event that shows which driver crashed. Once you know that you can troubleshoot it from there. I will when I get home from work tonight. Sonar isn't my only DAW/music software. I also use Audition 3.0 and CS6, Reaper, Finale, Sibelius and a few others. All of them are full versions that I purchased, i.e. I don't have pirated software on my computer (and wouldn't ever). All of them have VST scanning capability, and none of them have any problems doing so, including Sonar X2. Having spent some time in computer tech support (I ran the library's computer network at my law school), I am familiar with, and myself have been guilty of, the assumption that any problem must be user error or SOS (Some Other Software). That is not the case here. I learned programming back in 1967, have written assembler level music software (a PC librarian for the MPU-401 -- remember that interface?), and have built at least several dozen computers. I understand drivers and the hardware they support. No code is perfect, and no one can write code that runs, problem free, on every single machine in every single hardware and software configuration that's out there. I find it more than a little frustrating, however, when competent tech people say things like, "the only way a computer can crash and reboot is if there's a driver problem." We both know better.
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:17:54
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Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
PTravel
After installation (an upgrade from X2), none of my VST3s showed up, nor did some VST2s. I tried the "Reset and rescreen" trick recommended by Cakewalk, but that didn't work either. Worse, Sonar crashed a couple of times in the process, usually when I tried to use the plug-in manager for scanning. The last time, Sonar not only crashed, but it took down my computer -- everything went black and the machine rebooted. This is the first time I've seen ANY software mess up so badly that it took Win7 down without a BSD.
I'm going to try uninstalling X3, uninstalling X2, doing a manual registry scrub and file delete from User Data and then re-install.
I've never had this kind of trouble with a Cakewalk product, and I've been using this DAW since it wasn't yet a DAW and just a sequencer called Cakewalk.
Are you by any chance using any UAD cards?
Nope. These are all garden variety VSTs, and the only audio interface I use on this machine is the Fast Track Ultra.
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fooman
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:21:42
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Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Are you by any chance using any UAD cards?
I use UAD on every session. Just curious, are there known issues?
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:37:23
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fooman
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Are you by any chance using any UAD cards?
I use UAD on every session.
Just curious, are there known issues?
There aren't any official known issues that I am aware of but I was going to see PTravel was using them and suggest making sure that the latest update for UAD plugins is installed.
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cclarry
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:39:53
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fooman
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Are you by any chance using any UAD cards?
I use UAD on every session.
Just curious, are there known issues?
Bapu seems to be having issues either UAD or RME related with Motorboating the audio engine... there's a thread on it...
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cclarry
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 13:44:41
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See the thread with this title also...
UAD-2 problems with X3 Studio
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Anderton
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 14:05:23
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PTravel
I'm going to try uninstalling X3, uninstalling X2, doing a manual registry scrub and file delete from User Data and then re-install.
I've never had this kind of trouble with a Cakewalk product, and I've been using this DAW since it wasn't yet a DAW and just a sequencer called Cakewalk.
I'm not a code guy, but before doing something as drastic as installs/uninstalls and a registry scrub you might want to see if Noel has any further suggestions. I have a system that's very similar to yours, including having both X2 and X3 installed, and didn't encounter any VST issues at all. So I tend to think it's some simple thing that's gumming up the works, and if you can just find that, you'd be okay. When I've had scan-related problems with other programs, I'd just move half the plug-ins out and see if the problem persisted. If not, I'd move the half that was "working OK" out and move the other half back in. In every case I remember, eventually it came down to removing one plug-in from the plug-in folder. Most of the time re-installing just that plug-in solved the problem.
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cclarry
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 14:09:30
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Sycraft
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 14:23:38
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]I'm sorry that you are having trouble, but the fact that your machine is rebooting means some driver is blowing up. There is no other way that this can happen, other than faulty RAM or some other hardware failure. The man speaks the truth. If your system reboots, which most likely means it BSOD'd but is set to auto-reboot on blue screen, then it is not user mode software like Sonar. BSODs can only be caused by kernel mode software (drivers for things like sound cards, dongles, and so on) or hardware itself. Regular software that runs in user mode just cannot bring down the system, it doesn't have access to the areas needed to do that. Any time I see a system do that (computer support is my profession), I set it to not reboot on blue screen to find out what the error is. Depending on the stop code, it can give a hint as to what might actually be broken.
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 14:36:08
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Sycraft
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]I'm sorry that you are having trouble, but the fact that your machine is rebooting means some driver is blowing up. There is no other way that this can happen, other than faulty RAM or some other hardware failure.
The man speaks the truth. If your system reboots, which most likely means it BSOD'd but is set to auto-reboot on blue screen, It is set to auto-reboot on a BSD, but it will still BSD before it reboots. then it is not user mode software like Sonar. BSODs can only be caused by kernel mode software (drivers for things like sound cards, dongles, and so on) or hardware itself. Regular software that runs in user mode just cannot bring down the system, it doesn't have access to the areas needed to do that. Unless the software is written to bypass OS calls, which much commercial software, particularly CPU and I/O intensive software, like audio and video applications, is. I have no idea how Sonar is written, but it wouldn't surprise me. Any time I see a system do that (computer support is my profession), I set it to not reboot on blue screen to find out what the error is. Depending on the stop code, it can give a hint as to what might actually be broken. And, if it blue-screened, I'd do that. It didn't.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 14:39:19
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Correct, the reason I mentioned copy protection is that all PACE products have a driver and a fault in the copy protection protocol will cause a BSOD because its in kernel mode. User mode programs cannot directly cause BSOD's since several windows versions ago. Anyway I wasn't trying to point fingers at your system but just provide a starting point for troubleshooting. You may be better served working with tech support on this issue since it might involve lengthy troubleshooting.
All VST scan does is load a VST and make a bunch of calls to it to query various properties. VstScan itself cannot cause a BSOD and neither can a plugin directly. However a plugin can access bad memory or do operations that involve drivers (in the case of PACE copy protection) which in turn can cause a crash. To trouble shoot this you have to take a subtractive approach. Craig's advice is excellent. Start with your VST Scan path pointing to only the Cakewalk plugins and let it finish that. Did that work? If so move on and add another vendor's plugins and let it rescan. Keep going till you find which plugin is causing the reboot. At that point we'll know the root cause of your problem.
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Sycraft
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 14:46:14
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Also, if you get random crashes, try a memory test. Seriously, it is always a good thing to rule out. The number of times I've seen system randomly reboot, slow down, crash, act oddly due to RAM that had some minor errors, but was not completely failed, is quite high. Toss memtest86 at it when you have some free time and see what it says. You might have a memory error.
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 15:48:12
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Correct, the reason I mentioned copy protection is that all PACE products have a driver and a fault in the copy protection protocol will cause a BSOD because its in kernel mode. User mode programs cannot directly cause BSOD's since several windows versions ago. Anyway I wasn't trying to point fingers at your system but just provide a starting point for troubleshooting. You may be better served working with tech support on this issue since it might involve lengthy troubleshooting.
All VST scan does is load a VST and make a bunch of calls to it to query various properties. VstScan itself cannot cause a BSOD and neither can a plugin directly. However a plugin can access bad memory or do operations that involve drivers (in the case of PACE copy protection) which in turn can cause a crash. To trouble shoot this you have to take a subtractive approach. Craig's advice is excellent. Start with your VST Scan path pointing to only the Cakewalk plugins and let it finish that. Did that work? If so move on and add another vendor's plugins and let it rescan. Keep going till you find which plugin is causing the reboot. At that point we'll know the root cause of your problem.
Just for kicks, since I'm at work, I loaded X3 onto my laptop, which I use for remote recording with Audition (I'll take it off when I get home -- I don't want to violate my license). The laptop has all the same VSTs as my home editing machine, except one. As with my home machine, it did NOT include Izotope Ozone in Audio Plug-in browser. I opened the Plug-ins Manager and rescanned from there. This time it found Ozone, though it still did not appear in Plug-in Browser. Then I did what I had tried to do on my home machine that caused the crash, i.e. I opened the X3 Producer Effects preset in the Plug-ins Manager and manually added Ozone along with Celemony Melodyne. No crash this time, and now, FINALLY, Ozone appears under Synths as FX in the Browser. This isn't the best place for it but, at least, it shows up. The Celemony VST3 also appears (correctly) under Pitch/Time. X3 clearly has a headache with Ozone, which I use extensively for mastering. Simply scanning will NOT work, nor will re-setting and re-scanning. The only way to get it to appear is by manually adding it to the X3.
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 15:49:14
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Sycraft
Also, if you get random crashes, try a memory test. Seriously, it is always a good thing to rule out. The number of times I've seen system randomly reboot, slow down, crash, act oddly due to RAM that had some minor errors, but was not completely failed, is quite high. Toss memtest86 at it when you have some free time and see what it says. You might have a memory error.
I don't get random crashes. I got a single crash when I attempted to do one thing. I agree, though, that the most common cause for random crashes (other than malware) is memory.
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mrdrwest
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 15:55:44
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Are all your plug-ins 64-bit?
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 16:00:35
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mrdrwest
Are all your plug-ins 64-bit?
Nope. It's about a 70%-30% split between 64-bit and 32-bit.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 16:01:16
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PTravel
X3 clearly has a headache with Ozone, which I use extensively for mastering. Simply scanning will NOT work, nor will re-setting and re-scanning. The only way to get it to appear is by manually adding it to the X3.
Are you using the VST3 version of Ozone or VST2? QA has tested Ozone and there were no problems. I have Ozone VST2 at home and it scans and works fine in X3.
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PTravel
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 16:27:58
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
PTravel
X3 clearly has a headache with Ozone, which I use extensively for mastering. Simply scanning will NOT work, nor will re-setting and re-scanning. The only way to get it to appear is by manually adding it to the X3.
Are you using the VST3 version of Ozone or VST2? QA has tested Ozone and there were no problems.
I have Ozone VST2 at home and it scans and works fine in X3.
VST3 version.
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JonD
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 17:47:47
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I would start by making sure the Fast Track Ultra is showing correctly under driver settings. IOW, don't assume nothing has changed from your last setup. After the upgrade, my interface changed to a generic ASIO driver, with the proper ones visible below but grayed out. Once I switched to WASAPI (instead of ASIO), the normal drivers were accessible again, and I just manually unticked "generic" and ticked the correct ASIO drivers. After hitting apply, this affected a bunch of other settings as well. If your interface driver looks okay, then I'd move on to the plugins. Try one or more of these: - Under Edit-pref, uncheck "Replace VST2 Plug-ins When Opening Projects". Apply. Go back in and rescan plugins. What happens? - Under same place, uncheck "Rescan failed plugins" Apply. Go back and rescan.. What happens? - If scans okay after doing the above, check the excluded plugins list. Is Ozone there? - Use shift key to open Sonar in safe mode (bypasses plugins). What happens? Point being, if it is a plugin causing a problem, you can isolate it, then once you are sure everything else scans okay, you troubleshoot the plugin (Make sure you have the latest version, or you may need to reinstall it, etc). Good luck. 
post edited by JonD - 2013/09/30 17:55:59
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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Leadfoot
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Re: X3 - so far a VST disaster
2013/09/30 18:04:38
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I'm learning alot reading this thread!
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