Helpful ReplyX3 track icons crumble (pixelate)

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jmasno5
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2014/07/13 18:33:37 (permalink)

X3 track icons crumble (pixelate)

Have any of you seen your track icons pixelate after you have opened a project a few times?  I had this issue with X2 as well.  No big deal as everything else is fine.  Just curious I guess.  See the image below.
 


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Splat
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/13 18:54:30 (permalink)
Nope.
Try deleting what is inside the picture cache folder.
 
Cheers.

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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vintagevibe
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/13 21:01:53 (permalink)
jmasno5
Have any of you seen your track icons pixelate after you have opened a project a few times?  I had this issue with X2 as well.  No big deal as everything else is fine.  Just curious I guess.  See the image below.
 

 
It's been doing that for years.  You just have to keep reloading the icons.  I've mostly had it happen with track templates.
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Anderton
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/13 23:24:49 (permalink)
jmasno5
Have any of you seen your track icons pixelate after you have opened a project a few times?

No, but that's pretty bizarre...it would be interesting to find out the Rosetta Stone of graphics-related issues so they can be quantified once and for all.

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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/13 23:36:05 (permalink)
I have seen it on occasion, or something similar.  I had always just assumed it was something wiggy with my video card. Maybe not. It doesn't happen often.

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Katnip
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/14 02:48:50 (permalink)
I see that on nearly every project. It's usually just one or two track icons in the project. I'm using a Sweetwater Creation Station 400 with Windows 7 and SonarX3. I would have to look up what graphics card the computer has in it. I just reload the icon if it bothers me. I had the same issue with X2.
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John
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/14 08:53:09 (permalink)
I have never seen this or remember anyone else reporting the problem.  

Best
John
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/14 08:53:12 (permalink)
Yes. Like Katnip, all the time - with some icons good, others pixelated.

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Anderton
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/14 10:06:14 (permalink)
I'd really like to find out the common element of those experiencing the problem compared to those who don't. VintageVibe has graphics issues with Sonar but he has the same video card as I do, and I experience no graphics issues at all...so it's not necessarily the video card, but what else in a computer affects video? It's not solely Sonar, or everyone would experience this problem. I think it would have to be some interaction between Sonar and...something.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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robert_e_bone
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/14 10:50:12 (permalink)
I agree with Craig - it seems worth qualifying and quantifying the issue(s) with icons.
 
I would like to see if they do still happen after clearing out the picture cache folder first, though.
 
Can someone who is having this problem please test that out?  Just delete the contents of the picture cache folder and Sonar will rebuild as needed, and that way we can either determine it as the cause or could rule it out.
 
Thanks, 
 
Bob Bone
 

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rscain
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/14 10:59:00 (permalink)
FWIW, I had this happen yesterday, first time I've ever seen it. It happened on a project I started with a project template if that helps. There was no degradation of performance but it bothered me so I just reloaded the icons. I'm getting ready to work on the project again this morning, it'll be interesting to see if it happens again.
I'll empty the picture cache before I start just for giggles.

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robert_e_bone
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/14 11:14:20 (permalink)
I can hardly see the darn things anyways, so I wouldn't know the difference.  :)
 
Bob Bone
 

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dantarbill
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/14 12:09:10 (permalink)
Oh WOW man...like...I've seen it tooooo.
 
I suspect that it might something to do with the transparency layer in some specific icons.  For instance, I have a drum kit icon (Drum Kit 1.bmp) that often gets messed up.  Most other icons that I use regularly don't have a problem.
 
It may be helpful to have affected persons list the filenames of all the icons that experience this issue and then have someone who knows a whole lot more about graphics formats and display issues than I do, look for commonalities between those files.

Dan Tarbill
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Dilaco1
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 11:19:43 (permalink)
Deleted Picture cache with no observable difference.
 
Ran a couple of tests. I loaded icons to tracks in a project and they looked fine; I saved and closed the project and reopened it to find all icons except track 1 were pixelated with a grey halo. I reloaded the pixelated icons; closed project then re-opened and icons fine.
 
I then modified the test by only reloading one or two of the pixelated icons, leaving some still pixelated. Upon reopening the file the previously reloaded icons were fine and the icons that I had not reloaded were still pixelated.
 
In each case track 1 icon was always good. I varied the icons I used for the tests (though whenever I reloaded an icon, I always used the same one as the one replaced).
 
I also tried using a template I made that I had saved icons to. The same scenario: when I open the template the icons are pixelated with grey halo, except track 1. If I reload the icons, save and close the project and reopen, all the icons are fine.
 
My screen resolution on a 22" PC monitor is at maximum: 1680 X 1050.

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Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 12:50:17 (permalink)
Sorry you are experiencing this.
We'll look into it.  
 
Couple of clarifications/etc...
Firstly deleting the picture cache has nothing to do with general graphics.  The picture cache contains data specific to waveform overview files (wave pictures) nothing related to graphic images used by the program.
 
Second, are there particular image attributes that are in common with what's corrupted?  i.e. using 1024 x 1024 wahzoo files or something.  Not that we support a wahzoo format, but curious if it's any file or particular files.
 
Third, I wonder if there's something using up graphic resources (you can check the count of gdi handles in task manager).  Those types of issues exhibit over time (sometimes a long time).  In Win 8's task manager, click on the details tab, then right click the header Name, PID, Status, etc. appear and choose select columns.  Pick GDI Objects from the dialog that appears.  Now take note of the count.  Around 10,000 Windows will shut down a process.  Near that and things could start to get weird.
 
Best bet would be to coordinate with support.  However, these were a couple of quick thoughts I had about this.
 
Keith
 
 

Keith
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Splat
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 13:14:02 (permalink)
And update your display drivers/run windows update.

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panup
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 13:32:31 (permalink)
I see this all the time in my SONAR system.
Maybe it's connected to using track templates. Maybe.
 
#17
panup
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 13:34:03 (permalink)
Standard SONAR shipped icons get pixelated, not just my custom ones.
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 14:32:35 (permalink)
This really smells of bad display adapter driver...

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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riniehuigen
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 14:40:22 (permalink)
Indeed. I have the problem too and I am only using the standard  Cakewalk icons that were designed for this! I did some troubleshooting and noticed that not all icons are affected. For instance the icon of the black snare will always get pixelated when loaded in a fresh project.
 
Follow these steps: Create a new project. Load the black snare icon for a wave track (don't know the image name but there's only one black snare). Then save the project and close Sonar completely. Reboot the PC and reopen the project. On my PC the icon is always pixelated. Loading the icon again makes the problem go away. As if something needs to be set right somehow.
 
I disabled transparency and then the icon will not be pixelated.... but.... if you follow the steps like before the icon will show a bit smaller then when it was initially loaded! I think this resizing is also the cause of the pixelation.
 
So... that's what I found. Hope it is usefull info for Keith.
 
Best regards,
 
Rinie

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vintagevibe
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 16:26:10 (permalink)
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
Sorry you are experiencing this.
We'll look into it.  
 
Couple of clarifications/etc...
Firstly deleting the picture cache has nothing to do with general graphics.  The picture cache contains data specific to waveform overview files (wave pictures) nothing related to graphic images used by the program.
 
Second, are there particular image attributes that are in common with what's corrupted?  i.e. using 1024 x 1024 wahzoo files or something.  Not that we support a wahzoo format, but curious if it's any file or particular files.
 
Third, I wonder if there's something using up graphic resources (you can check the count of gdi handles in task manager).  Those types of issues exhibit over time (sometimes a long time).  In Win 8's task manager, click on the details tab, then right click the header Name, PID, Status, etc. appear and choose select columns.  Pick GDI Objects from the dialog that appears.  Now take note of the count.  Around 10,000 Windows will shut down a process.  Near that and things could start to get weird.
 
Best bet would be to coordinate with support.  However, these were a couple of quick thoughts I had about this.
 
Keith
 
 




I contacted Cakewalk support years ago about this.  They totally blew me off.
#21
panup
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 17:10:18 (permalink)
> This really smells of bad display adapter driver...
 
Why display adapter driver, why not Windows GDI or SONAR bug?
Just curious... Problem seems to exist in multiple systems and I doubt we share the same bad display driver.
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Splat
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 17:43:38 (permalink)
I tried steps to repro #20 with \Track Icons\Drums\Snare Drum 2.bmp and could not repro.
 
> Why display adapter driver, why not Windows GDI or SONAR bug?
 
Because only some people seem to be getting this and I just followed steps and could not repro. It looks like corrupted memory in the display adapter, or memory being mishandled which is very often driver related. It's also very possible a windows update fix could sort it out as well (run it several times including optional updates).

Why don't you update your display driver to the latest to rule it out?
Maybe those who are experiencing this problem can tell us their display adapter models are driver versions (after they've updated and retested hopefully), and their operating system.
 
Thanks...

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Anderton
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 18:07:15 (permalink)
vintagevibe
 
I contacted Cakewalk support years ago about this.  They totally blew me off.



That was then...this is now.

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Anderton
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 18:12:07 (permalink)
panup
> This really smells of bad display adapter driver...
 
Why display adapter driver, why not Windows GDI or SONAR bug?
Just curious... Problem seems to exist in multiple systems and I doubt we share the same bad display driver.




That seems reasonable. As mentioned previously, Vintage Vibe and I have the same video card. He has video problems with Sonar; I never do. Maybe Sonar has some particular requirement that some systems accommodate but others don't. That's why I'd like to find the common element.
 
I tried to repro the "black snare pixellation" but couldn't. In fact I've never experienced this problem in any version of Sonar, but clearly it's not isolated to "corner cases."

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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John
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 18:24:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby CakeAlexS 2014/07/15 19:46:58
Clearly there is a problem. But I don't believe it is a Sonar problem, it could be though. The reasons are listed above by Alex and Craig.  As I posted, I have never seen this, ever.  Nor can I recall others in the recent or distant past reporting this problem.  Again someone could have and I missed it. But a good rundown of ones system, the graphics card and drivers plus the OS and bit depth, how up to date the OS is and so on needs to be posted. 
 
In this case more information rather than less will be helpful. We need to start building a case file on this one.  

Best
John
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Anderton
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 18:53:57 (permalink)
Here's an experiment that might be worth trying: Anyone who is experiencing this, go into the Advanced System Settings and under Performance, choose "Adjust for best performance" to uncheck all the graphics eye candy. If that makes the problem go away, then one of those checkboxes is causing the problem...

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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vintagevibe
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 19:56:42 (permalink)
Anderton
panup
> This really smells of bad display adapter driver...
 
Why display adapter driver, why not Windows GDI or SONAR bug?
Just curious... Problem seems to exist in multiple systems and I doubt we share the same bad display driver.




That seems reasonable. As mentioned previously, Vintage Vibe and I have the same video card. He has video problems with Sonar; I never do. Maybe Sonar has some particular requirement that some systems accommodate but others don't. That's why I'd like to find the common element.
 
I tried to repro the "black snare pixellation" but couldn't. In fact I've never experienced this problem in any version of Sonar, but clearly it's not isolated to "corner cases."


I've had this problem through 3 video cards.
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Anderton
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/15 23:39:58 (permalink)
vintagevibe
I've had this problem through 3 video cards.

 
Okay, but I already said I didn't think it was the graphics card because we have the same graphics card and I don't have problems.
 
I'd just like someone who does have this problem to try turning off all the Windows eye candy, turning on all the Windows eye candy, and seeing if either one makes any difference. If not, then we can rule out those adjustments as a possible source of the problem. Maybe I don't have problems because I DO have all the eye candy enabled, except for "Save Taskbar Thumbnail Previews."

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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keyzs
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Re: X3 track icons crumble (pixelate) 2014/07/16 00:17:01 (permalink)
Hi all, i have had this problem all along as well since X1. Its not just with custom icons but intermittently with even Cake's original icons. The following are experiments i have done over but have no solution except to just re-load the track icons.
 
1. First is make to copy the Track Icons folder. Rename it or place the new folder somewhere else - this is so that you can get all your original and Cake's Original icons back after the experiment.
2. In the original Track Icons folder, delete all that is there. - leaving an empty folder.
3. Start up Sonar X(version) 
4. Load a project with distorted icons as seen from the previous.
5. Play as per normal and then save just once.
6. Go back into Windows Explorer to check the Track Icons folder.
7. All the icons used in "that" project opened will be saved into the once empty folder.
8. Notice the size of the "damaged" icons. they will not be 96 x 96 pixels. 
 
My conclusion - that Sonar has some form of Refresh issue when loading icons.

Why?... When changing or loading icons in Track View, the icons are not immediately updated in the Console View and or vice versa. You will need to click on another track in Console View before the change to "that" track happens.
#30
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