X3 with UA Apollo

Hey All,
 
Love the improvements in X3.   But the UA Apollo is still working poorly with it.   I am running the buffers at 256 and even with an empty template the audio engine is dropping out.  Has anyone got it to work correctly?   I was hoping to run at much lower latency.   My machine is brand new 12 core i7/ 64 Gigs of ram..should be amazing but not so much.
 
Thanks!

wynnsong
Hey All,
 
Love the improvements in X3.   But the UA Apollo is still working poorly with it.   I am running the buffers at 256 and even with an empty template the audio engine is dropping out.  Has anyone got it to work correctly?   I was hoping to run at much lower latency.   My machine is brand new 12 core i7/ 64 Gigs of ram..should be amazing but not so much.
 
Thanks!

 
Brand new DAW......did you build it yourself? Most likely it or some component is not optimized/configured or working correctly for DAW use. I am using a 7 year old (Core 2 DUO/3Gb RAM) DAW with my Apollo QUAD/Sonnet Allegro FW800 PCIe card combo and it is working like a charm with SONAR X3b (worked great in SONAR X2 as well). I can easily playback a project with 20+ audio tracks using 30+ UAD-2 plug-ins @ 44.1k with no drop outs, pops or crackles in the audio down to 64 samples. If I try 32 samples, it still plays back, but I start to hear crackling in the audio. I imagine, if I had a multi-core i7, I could do 32 samples crackle free as well. I typically work @ 1024, as I use the Apollo Console to record with UAD plug-ins with near zero latency so I don't really need to go lower than that. If I do need to track a softsynth, I will reduce to 64 or 128 and use SONAR's input monitoring and my MIDI keyboard to trigger. So I would think if I can do 64 samples crackle free with my puny DAW specs, you should be able to do it with ease. BTW, I am using all x64........Win7 x64 (SP1) OS, SONAR X3b x64 and 64bit UAD plug-ins.  
 
Cheers,
 
Billy Buck

I wasn't aware that the UAD Apollo worked in a PC environment. Thought they were Mac Thunderbolt exclusive.

I bought a UAD Quad and didn't look at Apollo because of thinking it was for Mac only. Bummer.

mudgel
Just looked back at the ads at UAudio.com
I got tricked by the talk of Thunderbolt Mac exclusive and I didn't look any further. Doh!

The Apollo was initially released back in March 2012 with Mac compatibilty using FW800 only. About 13 months ago UA released the Apollo TB card which allowed Mac users with TB connections to use Thunderbolt. A month later (Nov 2012) UA released Win7 Apollo compatibility using FW800. UA has not formally announced Win TB support yet, but many Apollo users are finding compatible PC TB enabled MB's that are working using the existing Apollo UAD drivers over Thunderbolt. Woohoo!  Even one well known DAW builder (ADK) has a "UA approved" Win7 DAW configuration that will enable a working Thunderbolt connection using the Apollo! My next DAW (probably in the next 6 months) I will either build myself (using an Apollo compatible TB MB) or have ADK build me a Thunderbolt enabled PC that is compatible with the Apollo. FW800 is working fine on the Apollo, but after using my TB enabled Apollo on my Mac Mini (w/ TB port), the performance is even better and it is basically plug & play with none of the inherent limitations associated with the firewire spec.
 
Combined with my TB enabled Apollo QUAD this system should really rock and be quite a step up from my current 7 year old Core 2 Duo PC DAW using FW800.
http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/viewsystem.cfm?recordid=168
 
 

I am using the Apollo on a WIN 8 machine via Thunderbolt... works GREAT albeit not supported by UAD yet... but working since FEB thru about 6 UAD2 software upgrades.  So far, so good.
 
Jim

Hey Jon,
 
Not a bad suggestion.   I have talked to just about everyone (Cake, UA, Jim)  and no one can figure it out.   Trying to broaden the pool.   
 
Thanks and keep any ideas coming!  
 
 

JonD
If this is a brand new DAW from Jim, I would suggest you give him a call/email.
 

I've been using SONAR and my Apollo QUAD for years now without any showstopping issues. Started using via a recommended UA FW800 PCIe card (Sonnet Allegro) back about 2 years ago using X2. Eventually updated to X3e and about 6 months ago I built a new Thunderbolt PC DAW and moved to using my Apollo (with it's TB card) to that exclusively. I've never had an issue using my Apollo (either with FW800 or TB) with SONAR (X2/X3). Does the Apollo work without issues using other DAW software?
 
Have you checked your DPC latency lately? High DPC latencies will make your DAW more dropout prone. This free utility will analyze your system for it's suitability in using real-time audio.
 
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
 
Best of luck,
 
Billy Buck

Gentlemen..
 
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to this.  I read the Latencymon information cover to cover a couple of times.  I only understood about half of what I was reading.  I am concerned whether I have enough technical acumen to do this.  If on the other hand understanding the technical jargon is not necessary to identify the problem I may try it because what I have now is unusable.
 
Just a side note: prior to buying the UA interface, I had a Focusrite 8i6.  There were never any crackles or drop outs with that interface, and latency was never an issue even when I had >20 tracks with data hog virtual sounds.  The only reason I switched to UA (other than the plug ins) was that the Focusrite was a bit brittle sounding on vocals.  When I spoke to UA they seemed to suggest that Sonar X3 was not a very well respected or highly used DAW.  Having worked on Pro Tools for a few years I find Sonar to be SO MUCH easier to work with.  My fear is having to give up on Sonar in order to continue improving my studio to the next level.  Ive not used ProTools 11 so they may have fixed the issues that existed on the older versions but I would sure like to keep Sonar if I can.  

Perfect... I will give it a try in a couple of minutes, wish me luck and once again thank you for taking the time to help

Ok!! That's great news!!
 
You might try running it while you playback in Sonar and see if there is any change.

Be sure to use your mouse. You can run it for 10 minutes or so. I just accidentally left it running while I went to bounce tracks. :-)
 
If you stay this low, then we've basically ruled out an DPC Latency issue.
 
Your computer looks a good deal faster than mine.
 
So, next, are you aware if you have USB2 and USB3 ports? This can make a difference. Try plugging your device into one or the other. I'd start with USB2. See if that works better. I know my PC Built by Jim has both types, and I'm careful to use the USB 2.0.
 
My USBPORT.SYS driver reaches 0.362... ms latency. That's my highest.
 

Lastly, playback a project that you know will drop out. Watch the Performance Meter on the control bar in Sonar. Does the Drive turn Red? Do the Processor Meters peg? Any info in that little box that will point us in the right direction?
 
What Bit Depth and Sample Rates are you using for your project? If you are using a quad rate, try a double (192-96) or if your are using a double, try a single (96-48) something like that. Maybe your drive is having trouble getting all the data into Sonar.
 
Also, be aware that when comping, Sonar tries to read ALL the data for all the comp tracks. If you're like me and can take 200 passes on the same jam, you might try archiving the track and creating a new one after a while so that you can keep all your passes without having to read all that data all the time.
 

I tried most of the things you suggested except the USB changes.  For some reason the USB 3.0 on this computer does not work with any devices I have, so I simply do not use it.  Everything else is on USB 2.0 and virtually every USB I have is being used for a device.  The Yamaha keyboard that I use as a controller is included.  I am surprised with the page faults being completely maxed out on that latency monitor s/w that that wasnt the issue... not that I'd know what to do about it if it was but, but I was surprised.  All of the other indicators were really low but that one was off the map.  I did notice that the record bit depth was at 16, so I changed it to 24 as you suggested.  No changes in crackle and drop outs. 
 
Curiously today as I was recording I was moving midi notes in the midi editor and I could even hear crackles on that as well.  Never heard that before with the other interface, even one note at a time, and with only one instrument on the whole project.  After I rendered it and played it on the media player it sounded flawless.  So this in completely a Sonar problem...  The performance bars in Sonar HD is probably at 35% and the other one is about 5%
 
I got distracted and started writing a song... somehow I feel like I only write when Im supposed to be doing something else... Again I really appreciate your help.   Tomorrow when I get home from work I'll start a project from the desktop to see if the HD is problematic, and I'll unplug my wireless internet device and see if that helps.  Starting to look like Ive got to go back to Pro Tools booo 
R

rcalligan
After making the changes noted above, this evening I unplugged my wireless device and it made no difference whatsoever.  I was going to move the project file to another drive as suggested as well, but the project files are by default on the C drive with the program, not sure its going to get any better than that.

Uhhhhhhhh every DAW builder suggests that projects go on their own hard drive.
 
Just curious why you don't do that?

bapu

rcalligan
After making the changes noted above, this evening I unplugged my wireless device and it made no difference whatsoever.  I was going to move the project file to another drive as suggested as well, but the project files are by default on the C drive with the program, not sure its going to get any better than that.

Uhhhhhhhh every DAW builder suggests that projects go on their own hard drive.

 
Yeah right, that is serious DAW 101! The OP should have at least a dedicated audio drive. I bet that would solve the audio dropouts! You should only have your OS and apps on the "C" drive. Personally, I have (5) HD's in my DAW rig (not counting any external (USB/FW) HD's I may hookup. I have a (2) dedicated "Audio" HD drives (where I can record my waves files to), a dedicated "Project" HD where I store my projects to, a dedicated "Samples" HD where I store all of my samples (100GB of loops, 100+GB of samples from Komplete 10, EZD drum kit samples, etc...), a dedicated "B/U" HD etc....I try to use SSD's (where I can afford it, especially for the "C" and "Samples" drives), otherewise I use high grade 7200 RPM. I am rather shocked that the OP has a "brand new 12 core i7/ 64 Gigs of ram" system for DAW use, but no dedicated HD's (audio, samples, projects, etc...). I just assumed.............
 
Cheers,
 
Billy Buck

Please make sure you are on the latest driver updates and firmware for everything.

Also please consider turning off Intel speedstep in BIOS or AMD equivalent if your motherboard is one of those. If you are running an Intel motherboard run Intel driver update...

Ta