Lynn
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 19:08:14
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
southpaw3473
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
Is everyone who gets this using the 64-double precision engine?
Yes, I am.
Okay, that's what I thought. Turning that on/off replicated the issue on my system. That option is off by default so that's why most users aren't seeing it.
Yeah, that's a definite annoyance and it's logged, but at least turning it off is an easy work around to be working in X3c with mono interleaves and the Console Emulator.
This was likely introduced with some VST3 cleanups.
Ok, I'm using the 64 bit option, too. So, the workaround is to turn it off? Then we wouldn't have the advantage of using the famous Cakewalk 64 bit engine until this problem gets fixed, right? Or, am I missing something? I hope CW gets this straightened out soon because the 64 bit engine is one of the main selling points for me. I'll stay with X3b until this is resolved.
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jb101
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 19:10:16
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Don't worry, Cake are on it. And now they have a better idea of what is causing it.
I am sure it will be sorted soon.
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arachnaut
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 20:09:28
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Yes I see this, but not on the S-Type CE.
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Silicon Audio
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 20:28:56
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Lynn
Ok, I'm using the 64 bit option, too. So, the workaround is to turn it off? Then we wouldn't have the advantage of using the famous Cakewalk 64 bit engine until this problem gets fixed, right? Or, am I missing something? I hope CW gets this straightened out soon because the 64 bit engine is one of the main selling points for me. I'll stay with X3b until this is resolved.
You can leave it turned off during playback, but tick the 64-bit double precision option in the export dialog box, so you will still get the good stuff when your export your final product (presuming the hum doesn't end up in the export, will have to test).
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musicroom
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 20:33:15
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Unticking the 64-bit double precision cured the hum here.
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Lynn
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 20:41:16
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It's gratifying to see how quickly this problem was diagnosed and a workaround found. All on day ONE of its arrival.
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djwayne
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 22:09:42
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jb101
djwayne
I'm running 64 bit Windows 7 with Sonar X3c and just tried to get the 60 cycle hum with the tape emulator...nope, everything sounded perfect. No hum.
That's because it wasn't the Tape Emulator, it was the Console Emulator.
The Tape Emulator Hum was fixed in X3c update.
And the Console Emulator hum only seems to appear if you have the 64 bit double precision engine checked in preferences.
The original poster said the hum was coming from the Tape Emulator. I tried to duplicate the hum in the Console Emulator as well, but could not get the hum on my system.
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Dude Ivey
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 22:27:49
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I have the 64bit DP engine checked and don't have any hum.
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Brando
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 22:41:01
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Dude Ivey
I have the 64bit DP engine checked and don't have any hum.
If you are using stereo tracks exclusively with the console emu's I don't think you'll get the hum. If you have mono tracks with console emu enabled, turn off 64 bit DP engine is the work around.
Brando
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Combo
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 22:55:32
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Getting the same hum and other symptoms here in X3c, including CE's right channel needle on max. It's been said above it's a CE problem but this only appeared for me today when I opened a project I started in mid-September (i.e. Pre-X3) with the specific intention of adding Tape Emulator. That seemed to affect CE and introduce the hum.
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lawajava
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/10/31 23:57:51
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☄ Helpfulby dramelot 2013/11/01 22:34:09
This thread is a great example of why I check the forum daily. I can always learn something from the user community that is going to save me from some head scratching.
Great to hear this issue is logged, it's identified, and there's a work-around. Thanks to all on this!
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brian brock
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 00:19:10
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southpaw3473
I've narrowed it down a bit more and it's kinda weird. It is only buzzing on mono interleaved tracks. It seems the right channel of the Console Emulator is buzzing while the left processes the mono signal. Bizzare. I never had this with X3b.
I don't know if it's related, but this is very similar to an issue I'm seeing with Izotope Alloy 2. In a mono track, I see a maxed-out fluctuating level in the right channel meter. The left meter doesn't show anything. It may only happen when the saturation effect is enabled in Alloy. Perhaps the Console Emulator's crosstalk is causing whatever is going on in the right channel to show up in the left? I have been assuming that the issue was because of the way Sonar doesn't have "real" mono tracks, as is also shown in the way it uses the same UAD dsp on a mono as on a stereo track. I will see if the issue with Alloy has any correlation with 64 bit engine. I need to do a bit more work to figure out the Alloy 2 problem, so it might be different anyway.
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Peter Morrison
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 00:31:31
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Gear;-4 copper kettles-a large dustbin-a piece of string and a cotter pin. I keep a spring on standby
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Dude Ivey
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 01:15:09
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On a mono track the CE still doesn't hum but the meters read different depending on the console selected.
S-Type the right side meter rest at -30 and never moves.
N-Type the right side rest at 0 and never moves.
A-Type the right side rest at -12.
These readings are when the track is playing and I start on S-Type and switch through the other types while the audio is playing.
If I start the audio when the S-Type or A-Type is selected the right side never moves.
Start the audio when the N-Type is selected and the meter moves up to 0 and stays there.
During any of this im still not getting any hum or noise.
X-3e/X-2a, Windows 7 64bit, Intel i7-2600, 16Gb ram, 4 Tb HDD, 32 inch monitor, RME FireFace UFX, Shure SRH1840 Headphones, KRK Rockit 5 monitors w/ KRK 10 inch sub and 3 Dachshunds.
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 03:51:34
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
Is everyone who gets this using the 64-double precision engine?
I always wondered why this option is there and turned off by default (Preferences/Driver Settings/64-bit Double Precision Engine) ... and I'm not sure if I understand it's purpose on an all 64bit system (win 7 64 bit, Sonar 64 bit, all plugs 64 bit)? Maybe someone can explain briefly or point me to a reference (as the manual apparantly does not give any insight in this respect).
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Lynn
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 12:19:17
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FreeFlyBertl
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
Is everyone who gets this using the 64-double precision engine?
I always wondered why this option is there and turned off by default (Preferences/Driver Settings/64-bit Double Precision Engine) ... and I'm not sure if I understand it's purpose on an all 64bit system (win 7 64 bit, Sonar 64 bit, all plugs 64 bit)?
Maybe someone can explain briefly or point me to a reference (as the manual apparantly does not give any insight in this respect).
I have the same question. Does the 64 bit engine affect recordings? What will be missed by turning it off? I switch back and forth between recording and mixing, so I don't particularly want the extra step of turning that switch on and off. If anybody can shed some light on this, I'm sure many people will be happy to learn something of this.
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Peter Morrison
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 12:29:52
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It sounds like a problem that needs fixing before I update to X3C
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gabrielmesservier
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 15:06:17
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☄ Helpfulby dramelot 2013/11/01 22:34:52
Hi
me to
I have the same noise on my console emulation .
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Brando
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 16:28:24
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gabrielmesservier
Hi
me to
I have the same noise on my console emulation .
Just unselect the 64 bit double precision engine on your audio card driver settings as a work around until Cake gets it fixed. Shouldn't need to delay in upgrading to X3c IMO.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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gabrielmesservier
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 17:02:31
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Danny Danzi
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 20:02:08
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2013/11/01 20:37:37
Lynn
FreeFlyBertl
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
Is everyone who gets this using the 64-double precision engine?
I always wondered why this option is there and turned off by default (Preferences/Driver Settings/64-bit Double Precision Engine) ... and I'm not sure if I understand it's purpose on an all 64bit system (win 7 64 bit, Sonar 64 bit, all plugs 64 bit)?
Maybe someone can explain briefly or point me to a reference (as the manual apparantly does not give any insight in this respect).
I have the same question. Does the 64 bit engine affect recordings? What will be missed by turning it off? I switch back and forth between recording and mixing, so I don't particularly want the extra step of turning that switch on and off. If anybody can shed some light on this, I'm sure many people will be happy to learn something of this.
Lynn, I'll be impaled for this....but in my opinion, that 64 bit engine thing does absolutely nothing to the final outcome for me. Since its introduction it's given me issues so I've never used it during playback or export. I have made it work on another version of Sonar but noticed 0 difference. Then again, I notice 0 difference between using 32 bit float and good old 24 bit....so if by chance you don't hold me credible for anything, don't listen to me here. The help file says this: 64-bit Double Precision Engine. Enabling this check box chooses 64-bit (double-precision) mixing in SONAR throughout the entire signal path. This includes dithering and plug-ins. SONAR will send and receive 64-bit data to and from all plug-ins that accept 64-bit data. If a plug-in requires 32-bit data, SONAR will send and receive 32-bit data. That to me means....absolutely nothing in how the sound of my projects end up. Someone will show you all the proof on paper or by using scientific tests that this makes an incredible difference. A scientific test once told me my mother was fine. She died 4 days later. My advice is shut it off, leave it off and do your thing brother. See if you notice a difference without it. And if you think you can, create 2 projects playing the exact same thing. Do 30 seconds worth and play it exactly the same. Then load up the finished results in a player and let someone else press play so you don't know which is which. If you can tell the difference between 64 precision export and non-export, you Sir have the ears of a champion. :) Trust me...leave it off and don't look back. That's not a bust on Cake, that's my honest opinion having worked with it for several years. If there IS a difference to anyone, it's not blatantly obvious to the point of "wow, I gotta use that!" -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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brundlefly
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 20:45:28
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Good one, Danny. I'm inclined to agree, but it certainly would be interesting to hear 32-bit and 64-bit mixes that an ordinary mortal could tell apart.
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wizard71
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 20:55:16
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CE on mono track = hum
Untick 64bit did it for me too.
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Lynn
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 21:39:42
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Danny Danzi
Lynn
FreeFlyBertl
Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
Is everyone who gets this using the 64-double precision engine?
I always wondered why this option is there and turned off by default (Preferences/Driver Settings/64-bit Double Precision Engine) ... and I'm not sure if I understand it's purpose on an all 64bit system (win 7 64 bit, Sonar 64 bit, all plugs 64 bit)?
Maybe someone can explain briefly or point me to a reference (as the manual apparantly does not give any insight in this respect).
I have the same question. Does the 64 bit engine affect recordings? What will be missed by turning it off? I switch back and forth between recording and mixing, so I don't particularly want the extra step of turning that switch on and off. If anybody can shed some light on this, I'm sure many people will be happy to learn something of this.
Lynn, I'll be impaled for this....but in my opinion, that 64 bit engine thing does absolutely nothing to the final outcome for me. Since its introduction it's given me issues so I've never used it during playback or export. I have made it work on another version of Sonar but noticed 0 difference. Then again, I notice 0 difference between using 32 bit float and good old 24 bit....so if by chance you don't hold me credible for anything, don't listen to me here.
The help file says this:
64-bit Double Precision Engine. Enabling this check box chooses 64-bit (double-precision) mixing in SONAR throughout the entire signal path. This includes dithering and plug-ins. SONAR will send and receive 64-bit data to and from all plug-ins that accept 64-bit data. If a plug-in requires 32-bit data, SONAR will send and receive 32-bit data.
That to me means....absolutely nothing in how the sound of my projects end up. Someone will show you all the proof on paper or by using scientific tests that this makes an incredible difference. A scientific test once told me my mother was fine. She died 4 days later. My advice is shut it off, leave it off and do your thing brother. See if you notice a difference without it. And if you think you can, create 2 projects playing the exact same thing. Do 30 seconds worth and play it exactly the same. Then load up the finished results in a player and let someone else press play so you don't know which is which. If you can tell the difference between 64 precision export and non-export, you Sir have the ears of a champion. :) Trust me...leave it off and don't look back. That's not a bust on Cake, that's my honest opinion having worked with it for several years. If there IS a difference to anyone, it's not blatantly obvious to the point of "wow, I gotta use that!"
-Danny
Danny, I tend to agree with you. I don't have golden ears (more like nickel), and I doubt that I could hear a nickel's worth of difference. It's just that x3b is working fine for me, and I get nervous when an upgrade immediately starts with a loud hum. However, that's the only time an upgrade went crazy on me in 15 years with CW. I learned a lot about the 64 bit engine today, and I hope to keep up with it because I've been happy with the results of it so far, even though I can't hear it. Psychosomatic, I guess. Anyway, I have confidence that the bakers will have this fixed soon.
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southpaw3473
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 22:22:09
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I can't hear the difference either. I played the same project back on X3c with 64 bit off and in X2 with it on. Is that a fair test? Same engine, right? Anyway, the fast response by the bakers to this is great. I'm sure it'll be sorted quickly.
We'll not risk another frontal assault-that rabbit's dynamite!!!
Tommy Byrnes Sonar Platinum Win 10 Pro x64 AMD FX 8350 Eight-Core 4.00GHz/ ASRock 970 Extreme4/ 16 gigs RAMUA Apollo Firewire/UA 2 Quad Satellite/ Focusrite OctoPre/Makie Onyx1220i Mixer THANK YOU!!!
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backwoods
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 22:23:41
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southpaw3473
I can't hear the difference either. I played the same project back on X3c with 64 bit off and in X2 with it on. Is that a fair test? Same engine, right? Anyway, the fast response by the bakers to this is great. I'm sure it'll be sorted quickly.
It's already sorted. Turn off 64 bit processing. If DD can't hear the difference, as far as I am concerned there is no differemce.
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dramelot
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 22:40:19
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Bull#$%^
Why have a 64 bit enthralled in the Sonar product claim!!!
I have a 64 bit OS dual channel Quad Core...
This should not be an issue...
uhh turn off 64 bit ,, thanks
Someone say thunk!!
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southpaw3473
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 22:40:36
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It's already sorted. Turn off 64 bit processing. If DD can't hear the difference, as far as I am concerned there is no differemce.
Good point!
We'll not risk another frontal assault-that rabbit's dynamite!!!
Tommy Byrnes Sonar Platinum Win 10 Pro x64 AMD FX 8350 Eight-Core 4.00GHz/ ASRock 970 Extreme4/ 16 gigs RAMUA Apollo Firewire/UA 2 Quad Satellite/ Focusrite OctoPre/Makie Onyx1220i Mixer THANK YOU!!!
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dramelot
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/01 22:46:27
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I'm sure DD has great ears but what it this
64bit double point precision processing about?
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Lynn
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Re: X3C causes 60 cycle hum
2013/11/02 00:55:10
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It's not only about the sound, but it also is supposed to aid the processing of your 64 bit plug ins. I don't know, but you're right about the 64 bit engine being a huge selling point in CW advertising. I know that I spent a few dollars converting to a 64 bit system, so I bought into the hype, apparently.
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