X3d - Zoom Still As Messed Up As In X3c

I'm sure many of you were expecting to hear from me... sorry it took me a bit to get a copy of the update...
 
I must admit I was very surprised that they did not fix the major zoom issue at all... I thought that was a given though I did not expect they would change Lane zooming behavior.... I was right in that...
 
Zoom (Z key) has a limit to how tall it will make ANY track or lane, and almost entirely zooms only the time axis... I must constantly use numerous commands/tools which are located in various parts of the interface to get a zoom that I can see! My eyes aren't great, but I can easily work when I can zoom to what I want... I no longer can and I'm feeling very tired... I didn't like the zoom issues with Lanes or Lanes themselves, but when this suddenly got worse in X3c I thought they agreed it was a bug?
 
I know that the Lane zoom issue is a separate one... I do not like lanes at all and that will not change either... Nothing appears to be changing for them at all. they have as many bugs if not more than Layers did and so many extra issues for me that I'm seriously questioning if this is worth it for me... I did not and I do not want to spend my time complaining about things I remained quiet and as patient as I could while waiting for X3d...
 
None of the tools in X change the quality I can produce and they are now costing me so much extra time and frustration that I just can't take much more...  I do not want to do this but it appears I must be almost the only person so bothered by zoom behavior if they could ignore it for this fix. I could have sworn they acknowledged that something was wrong with zoom behavior introduced in X3c... and now to wait for a maybe release at what future time for X3e????
 
I am still very proud of the many things they have done and continue to do and I say these things without anger, only in critique. I'm also very surprised that no one has already commented on this... I guess that's why they didn't fix it as not enough people cared? I find that hard to believe, so maybe one of the Bakers will chime in and let us know some reasoning behind this?
 
There is nothing else of importance for me in X3d that I can think of except maybe that they have fixed some of the midi issues?
 
Very disappointing...
 
I'm signing off for now as this is already turning into another rant... I did not want to! My apology to all... But I will write yet another bug report! <sigh>...
 
 BTW... I've just noticed that zoom appears to work fine when there is only a single Lane, but if there's a second lane or more, track zoom behaves like Lane zoom... Get rid of Lanes! (I know it's not gonna happen but the problems they have instroduced for me continue to be horrible for me)
 
Keni
 
 
 

Hi Alex...
 
I never use auto zoom but I tried it and it makes the zoom even worse. It gains no height at all and only zooms the time region...
 
thanks for listing all the zoom related tools... I am aware of them and use all of them at different times... the bottom line is that to get the area I want zoomed when a track has more than one lane requires issuing a few commands and moving all over the screen to accomplish it... A giant leap backwards from the old behavior
 
Please note the fact that the zoom is only behaving this way when there is more than one lane on the track... and then (with auto zoom off at least) the track zoom behaves like Lane zoom which is a horror to me to begin with...
 
 I have always used the Z with drag to lasso the area I wish to occupy the whole screen... it is fast and direct... Nut cumbersome as it is now...
 
thanks...
Keni
 

CakeAlexS
Yes indeed autozoom should be off.
Do you use timeline zoom (with both left and right button) as per video I linked?
 
What about with the smarttool? Use the right mouse button to lasso, hold Z, left click the area
 
>  have always used the Z with drag to lasso the area I wish to occupy the whole screen... it is fast and direct
 
So if auto track zoom is off, and I hold down Z, I can drag an area with my left mouse button and it zooms it?
 
Thanks..
 
(Sorry just going through all the options you probably know already)...

 
Hi Alex...
 
No I don't use the timeline zoom... the problem for me with most of these other zoom methods is that it forces me to move around the screen and separately zoom the height and time regions. Using the Z key with click-drag gives exactly the area lassoed in a single command... It is indispensable for me to work quickly...
 
and yes, if you hold Z and click-drag and area it will zoom to that as long as the track(s) included in the zoom only have one lane on them. Any tracks that have more than one lane only partially zoom... That's the bug!.
 
tracks with more than a single lane zoom as if they ARE a lane instead of a track and track zoom is an utter nightmare for me...
 
Note that unlike Lane zoom, you can make the zoom taller , but not as easily as it should be...
 
Keni
 

Keni, with all due respect, I don't think you are taking advantage of what the tools offer. I just don't understand what you're trying to do that you think Sonar can't do, and I see nothing you've found that qualifies as a "bug." You most certainly can type Z, select an area, and whatever area you select (including a single track) will fill the whole track view, assuming that's what you want.
 
I'm not exactly sure what it is you want to accomplish, but I have a recommendation based on a workflow that works really well for me.
 
This is based primarily on auto-zoom, which is FANTASTIC once you get the hang of it. I often want to be able to see as many track headers as possible BUT also work on an individual, zoomed in track. This is easy with auto-zoom, and here's my workflow:
 
1. Hit Shift-Z to enter auto-zoom.
2. Select a track, THEN adjust the selected track's height by dragging on the splitter bar to the subjectively optimum viewing height (usually pretty high).
3. Any track header you click on will now expand to the optimum viewing height, and the previously selected track will collapse. Or (I do this a lot) use the up/down arrow keys to go to a different track. As you pass by a track, it will expand and then collapse after you go past...a convenient "preview" function.
4. The complement to this is I use ctrl right arrow and ctrl left arrow to zoom in and out horizontally.
 
(Note that this does NOT expand Take Lanes because they are not tracks. They are for recording takes.)
 
I find this a really efficient way to zoom in to any degree I want on any track. But, there are a zillion different ways to zoom. All you need to do is find the one or two ways that work really well for you.
 
Rather than saying everything is "messed up," please describe exactly what it is you want to accomplish. I'm sure there are several ways to do pretty much anything you want when it comes to zooming.

If there are bug LETS GET THEM DOCUMENTED! Then they might be fixed :)

@Anderton - Thanks for the info Craig! I know the post was meant for Keni, but you helped me as well. I'm looking forward to trying auto zoom!

Leadfoot
@Anderton - Thanks for the info Craig! I know the post was meant for Keni, but you helped me as well. I'm looking forward to trying auto zoom!

The reason why I like Auto-Zoom so much is I can have an overview of the project, but swoop down and do detailed edits on any track that needs it.

Funkybot
Keni,
 
I think part of the problem is that as CakeAlex points out, what you're doing is not clearly spelled out, nor is what you're expected. If you stick to a format like the one below, people might understand what you're talking about:
 
Step 1: First do this
Step 2: Second, do that
etc...
 
Expected Result: This is what I'm expecting to happen.
 
Actual Result: Instead, this is what I'm actually seeing.
 
Screen prints, or videos, along with comparisons to prior versions of Sonar would also be helpful. 
 
And just for everyone on a forum: when reporting bugs or talking about issues, the fewer words, the better. If you stick to the above format and stay away from writing in paragraphs, you're a lot more likely to get people 1) reading your post, 2) understanding what the issue is, 3) knowing how it happens, and 4) understanding what should happen.
 
This is basically how beta testers are asked to report issues for most companies.

I'm sorry...
 
I've done plenty of beta testing but ...
 
I thought it's pretty obvious...
 
1) find a track with more than one lane
2) z-click-drag and area to zoom on the track (lanes are closed)
 
Expected result:
 
Area within the drag should now expand to fill the screen
 
Actual result:
 
Time range expands correctly but track height only expands to the limited size that Lanes do
 
Note that this process works fine on tracks with only a single lane...
 
 
Keni
 

Sylvan
Zoom is not riddled with bugs. A new and more powerful and efficient work flow has been introduced. Adopting these new and more effective work flows are a huge benefit. Try something new, you might like it.

This is not about any new ways of anything.... we're not talling about lanes here this is about track zooming... Please see my bug report style posts above this one...
 
Yes, Zoom is not riddled with bugs, but it took me a bit to discover the culprit and it felt more problematic until I understood where the bug-situation exists and could document it....
 
the timeline zoom is a new method but only good for timeline zooming and requires a separate zoom for track height...
 
Keni
 

BTW... I thought I should point out that I didn't say that soom is all messed up, I said that it's still as messed up as it was in X3c... and it is!
 

jps
Hi Keni
I followed Your report :
1) choose a track with more than one lane and hide them
2) use z-click-drag to highlight and select an area

Expected Result:

Area selected instantly expands to fill the screen

Actual results:

Time range expands correctly but the track height stops at the same max size as a lane does...
 
Here is a video of my result http://www.screencast.com/t/ouBmh0q8t6dd
Hopefully I understood you correctly . 
All the best
Jan

Thanks Jan...

Yes, you did the right process... Why it works correctly for you I don't know...

I'll explore more details to see if there is some other element affecting it...

I'm not prepared to make an excellent video as you did... I wish I could...

But when you executed the zoom, the result is what I want /expect but don't get here. When the is more than one lane on a track the zoom behaves as do zoom on Lanes...

Do you have auto zoom on/off? It's always off here... Maybe that's another element? I will try that... Ugh... That'll be nasty if I have yo leave auto zoom on in order to get zoom to perform correctly... I'm very uncomfortable with auto zoom...

Thanks for digging into this with me... This issue first turned up with X3c here...

Keni

Keni

jps
Hi Keni
I followed Your report :
1) choose a track with more than one lane and hide them
2) use z-click-drag to highlight and select an area

Expected Result:

Area selected instantly expands to fill the screen

Actual results:

Time range expands correctly but the track height stops at the same max size as a lane does...
 
Here is a video of my result http://www.screencast.com/t/ouBmh0q8t6dd
Hopefully I understood you correctly . 
All the best
Jan

Thanks Jan...

Yes, you did the right process... Why it works correctly for you I don't know...

I'll explore more details to see if there is some other element affecting it...

I'm not prepared to make an excellent video as you did... I wish I could...

But when you executed the zoom, the result is what I want /expect but don't get here. When the is more than one lane on a track the zoom behaves as do zoom on Lanes...

Do you have auto zoom on/off? It's always off here... Maybe that's another element? I will try that... Ugh... That'll be nasty if I have yo leave auto zoom on in order to get zoom to perform correctly... I'm very uncomfortable with auto zoom...

Thanks for digging into this with me... This issue first turned up with X3c here...

Keni

Auto zoom was off when I did this video .
All the best
Jan

Ha!
 
I couldn't quite give up yet and found it has changed it's behavior after removal of various vsti's/tracks tho not the same one removed clears the issue...
 
I'm using a project that has:
Session Drummer 3
VSampler 32 VSTi
Rapture
True Piano
one midi track feeding external hardware and an audio track where the external audio has been recorded...
 
I ma also using Amplitube 3 Free on an adio track
 
My first removal was Amplitube...
Nothing changed
 
Next I removed my most likely suspect the VSampler
Nothing Changed...
 
Nothing changed until I removed them all, then zoom worked correctly even if I added additional audio tracks...
 
Next I reloaded the song and started the same process in the reverse order and after removing VSampler the behavior corrected itself...
 
So I will investigate further, but there is something going on here for sure...
 
Keni
 

Hmmm
 
I just added all the same vsti's back into the piece and zoom is still working correctly. I've used all PC/Cakewalk plugins except for two being Amplitube3 Free and one called SpinnerLE and I've added them as well...
 
Still the zoom works correctly... So why does it not when I first load this file (or my others)? Maybe an envelope somewhere? I'm running out of ideas...
 
More investigation as time permits... Clients should be here any minute...
 
Keni