Zappa fans! Roxy: The Movie is out Oct 30th

It's not often I buy DVD's but how can I not jump on this. Roxy and Elsewhere was one of the greatest live albums of all time IMO, Zappa and the Mothers at their absolute best, absolutely joyous performances, instrumental virtuosity, superbly arranged music and a beautiful sound. To see it in glorious technicolor is a dream come true for me, from what I can see in the trailer it looks absolutely pristine and an absolute hoot. Can't wait. 
 
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/frank_zappas_roxy_the_movie_was_worth_the_four_decade_wait
 

Yeah, I'll get definitely this one!!
 
Bummer on Gail 

I notice in the trailer, they have drums panned hard left and hard right, weird but it kind of works...I can't remember if Roxy And Elsewhere was mixed this way. I always liked the sound of Zappa's early 70's albums like One Size Fits All and Overnite Sensation - very warm and his guitar tone was at its absolute best.

Big Zappa fan, and the audio sounds remarkably good given the film's vintage.
 
I never forgave him for 200 Motels. He still owes me 4 bucks for that stinker. Perhaps this movie will atone for that one.

Looks like it'll be a long wait before we get to see it in the UK.
 
I have all of FZ's official releases and not a week goes by without me playing something from his vast catalogue.
 
Mid to late 70's he was absolutely prolific and assembled some of the finest musicians around at the time.
 
I was fortunate enough to see him live on his final world tour, before it (the tour) all ended in disarray.

Hi,
 

sharke Yeah 200 Motels wasn't his finest moment.

 
I'm probably the only person that ever felt OK with that film.
 
And 10 years later, a whole slew of film makers in Europe went out of their way to use handheld cameras and psychedelic stuff and one Scandinavian film maker and a French film maker (today) have made their living off these things ... total color and what not distortions, that look like a serious lysergic acid trip ... something that not many folks can appreciate ... these are really harsh and weird sometimes and the strangeness quota is worse!
 
Seen within the context of film history, there were only two films that really destroyed the fabric of ideas and story within a film, in the Hollywood style. They were "Head" and "200 Motels", and both of these were aligned with Frank Zappa. Remember this is 1969 and 1970 ... and the idea of "trip" film was the "2001, A Space Odyssey" which was grossly over rated, and over blown, because no one had really seen the "personal side" of a trip like they did in that film.
 
Frank's idea, was to create a personal view that was more to his surrealistic view of things, than it was a meaningful, or articulate exploration of a psyche. To me this means ... trips are all trips, and the differences are strictly personal.
 
200 Motels is a personal trip, and when you take that view, the film is a fun, nutty, insane and ... ohh my gawd ... with music on top of it! We had seen things this way and that way ... but all of a sudden there are 2 and 3 disciplines mixed together, and that threw people off. It wasn't a concert film. It wasn't a movie per se. And it wasn't a TV show!  ... what was it? ... you can't define it, and I believe this was intentional. TOTALLY INTENTIONAL, by Frank.
 
Sadly, this was one of his greatest complaints about fans ... most wanted to hear his guitar ... and the arrangement and the serious music design under it all, regardless of project, film, or music, was forgotten ... it still bleeping is, Sharke! Because it isn't a hit song, or a pop song ... and we all have a hard time dealing with rock music as serious music ... it is very well done and serious music in its design, and the movie decided to take this the next step and DID ... however accidental it might have been, mind you!   The part that is hard to deal with is the vocals and the language, and this is the thing that makes us not enjoy a lot of his music. His lyrics, sometimes, leave a lot to be desired, but then ... so did Jean Genet and others, but you and I, are not sitting here upset with the color and description of the poop that our lady of flowers ... and this is the part that one does not see, or discuss. It is intentional and very "French" in its style and application, as "haute comedie", and this is something that this country  has a hard time with, because it is not like a TV set that gives you a laugh track with which to entrance you to believe something else.
 
Frank Zappa, is, in many ways, a vibrant example of the 50's literary scene that came out of literature, but he came out in music. Because in LA, and America, you can not do anything "serious" in music because of the movies, he has to make fun of the local scenes (and commercials -- all of which are in 200 Motels -- which is something that makes it VERY LOCAL, btw!) in order to get a bit of attention and I understand that. SO DO YOU. That he was able to translate this to film is IMPRESSIVE, since, at the time, Godard and Fellini, were the only film makers that did anything strange, weird and totally off kilter ... but Godard was making fun of film conventions and turning them upside down, and Fellini, was just satirizing all the Italian anything he could get his fingers on! Fat women, ugly make up to take on "stars" ... as an example. And later, he even satirized the pope as well as the studio machinery.   Too bad that he is in rock music, because it is the place where he will get the least exposure and appreciation, by an audience that is not used to seeing rock/pop music as an art form ... it's always seen as a hit, and not as "serious music", and I think this is the part that hurts things and the appreciation of the film even more. 
 
But it is a fantastic film to enjoy, and considering its time, when it was done, it was adventurous and way ahead of its time ... and even today, look at the replies ... do we even consider that option, and appreciate the artistic vision that created it?
 
I find that scary!

batsbrew
a LOT of those guitar tones, were recorded with a pignose amplifier..
 

Not surprised ... when everyone around him was going for the Marshal Stack and the loudness.

sharke
Can you write a single post without ranting about other forum members Pedro? LOL!

This has been cleaned up and such.
 
I (still) find it strange that you would concentrate on this and not on the details mentioned about the film, which are FAR more important and valuable as an art form.
 
I could easily say, as you can see, that you obviously, do not treat your own work as an art form, that is valuable enough to elevate it. I have spent my whole life trying to elevate rock music by everyone, because there is a lot of excellent work out there that far surpasses the majority of classical music being done today ... but that thought gets wasted ... because ... you think I'm putting you down, when in essence it is a challenge that you and all others have to get better (not on my account!) so that they also get the credit they DESERVE, including you, for your music!

sharke

Moshkito
Same thing here at the Coffee House ... everyone agrees to everything and the odd things get trashed out and people think that they are being insulted, and will not discuss the actual subject ... only their own individual crap.

This is what I'm talking about. There is no need for the constant passive-aggressive swipes at other forum members and then the victim posturing when people point it out. My first memory of your posts a few years ago were when you were taking constant passive-aggressive swipes at certain forum members for not wanting to give you one on one Sonar tuition, and whenever they told you to give it a rest you did the same "woe is me I can't say anything without being attacked" routine. It's like a constant theme which manages to find its way into many of your posts regardless of the subject. All I'm saying is, just leave it out, there's no need for it.

(This part has been reworked and mostly removed.)

... you still have not discussed the film ... similar to many Zappa fans ... you want a guitar and ignore the music!
 
It's not about "one paragraph" ... it's about the whole thing, and you are not capable of seeing beyond one line! Very simple. And I don't mean to be derogatory, since the rest is highly complimentary to the work itself ... just not exactly enamored with fans whose outlook into the work is jaded ... and the one thing that Frank himself did not like and stopped playing the guitar many times to "conduct" his group!

Moshkito

batsbrew
a LOT of those guitar tones, were recorded with a pignose amplifier..
 

Not surprised ... when everyone around him was going for the Marshal Stack and the loudness.

...and a half cocked WAH.
 
Frankly... I still like Frank's music, especially things like Peaches en Regalia but the pornographic nature of some of the lyrics bother me now that I am older and have changed a bit. Especially albums like The Mothers at the Fillmore East, June 6 1971. I am so familiar with that album I didn't look it up, I'm pretty sure I got it right, I could probably sing along with the whole thing... Mud sh sh shaarrrrk!
I had "We're only in it for the Money" rom about the 10th grade, a good four years before I encountered any illicit substances, and I loved it. I know it word for word. Hot Rats, Chunga's Revenge, Waka Jawaka, The Grand Wazoo... oh and Just another band from LA... "rifa"... Billy The Mountain (Ethyl was a tree growing off of his shoulder)... those are my favorites.
 
I would probably be torn over liking or not liking this movie but I'll likely watch it. Flo and Eddie...
is Ansley Dunbar on this?
 
J

jbow

Moshkito

batsbrew a LOT of those guitar tones, were recorded with a pignose amplifier..

Not surprised ... when everyone around him was going for the Marshal Stack and the loudness.

...and a half cocked WAH.
 
Frankly... I still like Frank's music, especially things like Peaches en Regalia but the pornographic nature of some of the lyrics bother me now that I am older and have changed a bit. Especially albums like The Mothers at the Fillmore East, June 6 1971. I am so familiar with that album I didn't look it up, I'm pretty sure I got it right, I could probably sing along with the whole thing... Mud sh sh shaarrrrk!

 
It's strange, as I get older, the hard language and such bothers me less and less. I remember one of my favorite plays, "Marat/Sade" and being that it was written by a German and then made famous in London, you can tell that the language was cleaned up, but I still feel the same, and to this day, I take a cabbage now and then and ... it's like you have to take out all your angers!
 
When it comes to FZ, the words don't bother me ... similar to my own example here ... took me longer to get over the first several thousand words of "Our Lady of Flowers" than it did Frank Zappa at any time! And Camus, Sartre and many others were fighting for it! Probably like many others would for Frank, were he not in rock music, which is considered, somewhere in the annals of the arts as just street, and uneducated music!
 
I look at it, as we must fight that thought ... and not become it. That is a well known tactic of fascist governments and controlling people's to ensure that the populace and public do what they are told, and NEVER EVER NEVER EVER be allowed to express their feelings about anything. To me, the language is a liberating factor ... and in the 50's in Portugal, they didn't like Brando, or Robarts or Kazan, either, because they were "violently" agitating people by screaming and shouting ... and to me, the late 60's was the same thing, and Frank continuing it was not a surprise, and later, I thought it was just a pastiche of itself ... a joke on itself.
 

jbow ...  I had "We're only in it for the Money" rom about the 10th grade, a good four years before I encountered any illicit substances, and I loved it. I know it word for word. Hot Rats, Chunga's Revenge, Waka Jawaka, The Grand Wazoo... oh and Just another band from LA... "rifa"... Billy The Mountain (Ethyl was a tree growing off of his shoulder)... those are my favorites.

 
This is my favorite period as well, although it is pretty obvious to me, that he concentrated on the quality of the music much more going into that time period and beyond. Although I have a hard time saying anything about the bandit later, in general, all the work he did was fine with me. You write some great things, and some not so great ... we're all like that, no?
 

jbow ... I would probably be torn over liking or not liking this movie but I'll likely watch it. Flo and Eddie... is Ansley Dunbar on this?

 
(Have to look to see if Ansley is there or not ... don't remember.)
 
You have to take a step back, to see something like this. I kinda think that some folks go into it, with today's perceptions, and ideas about the 60's and how screwed up and stupid they were and how we were so stoned that everything else was just us doing home movies like children ... but you know what, I can sit and watch it today, and I do not see someone manipulating marionettes ... I see someone saying ... something else ... and it is not clear, and I think that Frank was learning much of this at the same time, and thought that he might have something at the end, like it happens with ALL HIS MUSIC! But in film, the ego of the studios and what not, were way out there and different, and I think they made it difficult for Frank to experiment, until he found that moment he was kinda looking for.
 
This is really hard to do in film, unlike music, because the expense in time and everything else is insane ... a lot less today with graphics, and other things, but still way too time consuming for everyone involved. I don't think Frank ignored that, I kinda think that he was a bit naive going into it. Both you and I would kill for a chance to try and do something like this, and even when I mention a thing or two, even the old CHB as you well know, it's like ... impossible ... not gonna happen ... and I do not have the heart to do it, and then send a copy of it to 3 people, and 2 of them freak out on me ... I would die inside! It's your own "poem", to something that felt great to me ... but that person has no idea ... and still think I'm putting it down in some cases!
 
After that, the rest of the film is just fun and nuts to watch. It's challenging, though now we can step aside, and think that some drug movies are better done, and this was not even a drug movie, if the stories are there, but the whole thing is INSANE ... in its entirety ... that anyone would be crazy enough to think it, and then develop it, and actually do it ... somewhere along the way we have to say ... wow ... that's courageous ... even if crazy!
 
But I would rather have that "crazy" than hear the same thing over and over again! And sometimes, today's rock music is elevator music for me! Even Eno's version was better!

Moshkito

sharke
I do get it, I was talking about that one paragraph specifically and how you seem to slip these passive aggressive swipes at other forum members in many of your posts. And even before that paragraph you were generalizing about and taking a swipe at Americans. I don't know why you can't just make an intellectual comment about art without making it sound like you think that everyone else is beneath you. It doesn't come across well.

It really is no different than your comment about me ... !
 
There is nothing beneath me, no one, except dirt and some bones and bugs ... where you and I will meet someday in the future. Any other above and below is just the silliest and poor'est joke ... and you are confusing preferences, with ideas, with a film review, and discussion.
 
It might not come across well, but then ... neither do I get these nicely wrapped in whipping cream from some of you folks ... but I still love them, and it is meant in gest, not in insult ... which you do not see.

You misunderstand me Pedro. When I say that you're passive aggressive digs at other forum members are tiring, I mean it in jest!

bitflipper
I am passionately non-aggressive.

This ..
Sometimes I get a case of "foot in mouth" disease but what? IDK...
Give lane/take lane... non aggression. It is a good idea because guess what, there is ALWAYS someone more aggressive and personally, I don't want to challenge them, even by accident, lol.
I've found that giving he benefit of the doubt, all the time is the best way. Also, consider, when someone is rude or aggressive, you never know what they are be going through. They may just be an arse but they also may have just found out that they have been betrayed or any number of things.
 
OK, never mind... let's make the water turn black!
 
J
 
 

Hi,
 
So sad ... a nice movie review and comments, totally wasted by a couple of folks!
 
I wonder if they would like that about their own song!
 
Just sad!

I've mentioned this before on the CW forum, but for any Frank fans who are not aware: Dick Cavett devoted a whole 30-min show to a Zappa interview.  You can find it (in three parts) on youtube.  Well worth your time, I promise.  Here's part 1:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeUe5-HcsT0