Timeking
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bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
I had this weird problem where everytime I started up X1, I had to hit to hit "P" (preferences) and then hit the "Apply" button otherwise there would be no sound. I finally came to conclusion that this had something to do with the ASIO4All driver. I couldn't figure it out, so I went back to WDM. Odd thing is, that my latency under ASIO was 19ms, but only 5.3 under WDM. That's a stumper. I opened up some complex mixes and no dropouts, so I can't figure out why I need to spend more time trying to get ASIO to work. Doesn't seem to be an upside, so plan on staying with WDM. Bad idea?
I am using an M-Audio Delta 44 running under XP32. When this X1 setup was on my old machine (Pentium D940 on a Biostar P4M900-M7FE motherboard, 4 gigs ram) ASIO ran fine. The weirdness started when I did a complete clean install of the operating system (XP32) and X1 onto my new machine (Phenom II X4 945 on a Gigabyte ga-970a-ds3, 4 gis ram).
Greg Graves, Ohmegga Audio Studio Fort Pierce FL timeking {[at]} fflynet.net
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markyzno
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 04:58:40
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M-Audio......
Theres the problem right there.
M-Audio have the worst drivers known to man!
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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scook
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 06:56:07
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Not a bad idea at all. Driver mode selection is configuration dependent. Whatever works best in your setup is the driver to use.
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Stone House Studios
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 07:32:53
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markyzno
M-Audio......
Theres the problem right there.
M-Audio have the worst drivers known to man!
Ummm . . . . it was ASIO4ALL that was giving him the problems. not the M-Audio drivers! Interesting note, however, I tried to upgrade the drivers for my Fast Track Ultra, but, AVID is the official provider now, and i cannot find my device even listed on their site. Brian
Core i7-6700@3.40Ghz Windows 10x64 16 GB RAM Sonar Platinum/Studio One PreSonus Studio 192
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scook
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 07:47:18
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daveny5
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 08:06:32
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I don't know why you would use ASIO4ALL with the Delta44. The M-Audio drivers for the Delta44 are just fine.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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Guitarhacker
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 08:13:31
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Agreed... ASIO4ALL is ok at best as a workaround IF the soundcard in question doesn't support native ASIO drivers.
M-Audio to my understanding does support ASIO. So completely remove the ASIO4ALL work around and try it again with Native ASIO.....
leaving the A4A wrapper in the computer will cause IT to try to run and that will interfere with true ASIO.
Delete A4A.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Tom Riggs
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 08:20:06
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The delta drivers already have asio support. However when I was using one I usually got better results with wdm. Go with what works.
i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed My Music My YouTube
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Guitarhacker
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 08:53:31
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while most decent quality interfaces will work best on ASIO, if yours doesn't, by all means use the drivers that do work best.
The whole thing comes down to performance that lets you get the job done.
When I record, I never....and I mean NEVER, think about the ASIO drivers that are making it all happen.
So yeah, go with what works.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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FCCfirstclass
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 09:00:51
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M-Audio......
Theres the problem right there.
M-Audio have the worst drivers known to man!
I agree.
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js516
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 09:11:58
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ASIO4ALL is used to wrap wdm divers when the daw app only supports asio and the sound card does not have asio drivers. Using it in sonar, which supports several types of drivers (including asio and wdm) is unnecessary. All you are doing is adding latency to a wdm driver by wrapping it with another layer of software.
Joe Sera Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3, AMD FX-8320, Corsair 32GB 1600 Ram, MOTU AVB on USB3, AMD Radeon R7-200
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markyzno
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 09:21:29
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I agree with the above comments about Asio4all....
M-Audio does support ASIO so go with that.....
But, from my awful experience with the Delta 1010 and Sonar I wish you the best of luck.
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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robert_e_bone
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 09:43:50
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@Timeking
A high latency for ASIO is likely to be the combination of Sample Rate and ASIO Buffer Size.
IF you don't mind - go into the ASIO control panel for your M-Audio driver (might be through Sonar or might be down in your system tray - it varies from interface vendor to vendor).
Anyways, in there - try a Sample Rate of 44.1, and an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 (I used to have an option to set mine to 64, but new drivers from Presonus removed that choice).
Then go into Sonar Preferences, set the driver mode to ASIO, using your M-Audio device, apply, then make sure the Sample Rate is also 44.1 in Sonar. You will see the total round trip latency in Preferences, as well, and that should be a bit lower.
But before any of the above, really, delete ASIO4ALL.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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jamesyoyo
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 10:11:20
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That is kind weird. I just changed to WDM from ASIO and things seem smoother, and even the project loads quicker. AND lower latency.
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musicroom
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 10:23:04
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I use ASIO with a delta1010 and they work. WDM also works and I agree with James that sometimes it seems like smoother operations.
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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Timeking
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 11:02:51
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Before I installed ASIO4All, I kept having dropouts with the Maudio ASIO driver. Afterward, not. Anywho, per the above recommendations, I deleted A4A, and went back and tried the Maudio ASIO driver. Now, like magic, it works, with a latency of 5.3ms. That 5.3 must be a hardware limit, since I got 5.3 with the WDM driver.
This kind of stuff is EXACTLY why I periodically clone my harddrive with Acronis. When (not if) my drive takes a dump, I can bypass all this tweaking silliness and get back to making music!!!
Greg Graves, Ohmegga Audio Studio Fort Pierce FL timeking {[at]} fflynet.net
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robert_e_bone
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 11:08:55
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SOOOOOO kewl when someone gets an issue like this resolved.
Wahoo!
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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scook
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 11:09:04
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I think that is why I used the WDM driver with M-Audio. No difference in performance between ASIO and WDM. The WDM mode has the added convenience of adjusting the latency inside SONAR with the slider. I recall having to change latency often between tracking and mixing.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 11:15:55
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Use what works best. I've used interfaces where WDM works best and others such as my current ZED-R16 where ASIO is the way to go. WDM with that is so bad it only exposes 8 of the 18 in/outs.  ASIO4ALL works great on some things such as internal sound cards but that just wraps up the WDM driver. If a device has native drivers they should be the way to go.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 11:18:17
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Its very normal that one driver mode will work better than another driver mode. Thats just how it is
Cj
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robert_e_bone
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 12:39:49
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I tried that approach at home - swapped one wife for another - still had all kinds of static noise, even when I wasn't using Sonar.
So, I get rid of that wife too, and that cleared up all that noise I kept hearing.
So, yeah, +1 on trying different things until you find something that works. With my new setup, I get soooo much more work done, AND I don't have to lower the seat.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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guitardood
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 14:52:36
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jamesyoyo
That is kind weird. I just changed to WDM from ASIO and things seem smoother, and even the project loads quicker. AND lower latency.
That's pretty interesting. I've been using ASIO for years, but recently came across a post on MotuNation which suggested disabling WaveRT in the Motu drivers and switching to WDM inside of Sonar. Now mind you that I've not been able to run with the latency buffer less than 512 without clicks and pops. I tested the advice by switching to WDM/KS and I'm now able to leave the sample buffer at 64. Perhaps some kind of ASIO bug in the drivers? Can't really blame Sonar as Motu's Machfive standalone (which uses ASIO) will only work with buffer at 512 and up, but with Sonar at WDM, I'm able to load Machfive 64-bit plug into Sonar and run at a buffer of 64. Very interesting indeed. Best, guitardood
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robert_e_bone
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 14:57:57
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@guitardood
Just make sure you don't pick up any of my ex-wives. They have horrible drivers.
I may mess around with WDM this evening - just to see what happens.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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guitardood
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 15:00:12
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robert_e_bone
I tried that approach at home - swapped one wife for another - still had all kinds of static noise, even when I wasn't using Sonar.
Bob Bone I was experiencing similar noise and static with that model, but instead of swapping, I sold "number 1" and decided to go back to the old but reliable "built-in" gear. Always aims to please and is very happy to make me a sandwich before bedtime. :) Static gone & Smile slowly coming back, guitardood
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scook
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 15:01:55
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I tried WDM with the Presonus 44 VSL for about a minute or so. It would be interesting to see how it works for the 1818.
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 16:13:42
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robert_e_bone
I tried that approach at home - swapped one wife for another - still had all kinds of static noise, even when I wasn't using Sonar.
So, I get rid of that wife too, and that cleared up all that noise I kept hearing.
So, yeah, +1 on trying different things until you find something that works. With my new setup, I get soooo much more work done, AND I don't have to lower the seat.
Bob Bone
The problem is all versions of wife have noise. It is kind of like the tape hiss found in analog recordings. You can try wife 3.0 and just use those noise gate earplugs. This may not be a solution. Try it at your own risk!
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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vlab
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 16:50:29
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markyzno
I agree with the above comments about Asio4all....
M-Audio does support ASIO so go with that.....
But, from my awful experience with the Delta 1010 and Sonar I wish you the best of luck.
Hey Markyzno ! Checking your hardware in your signature, and seeing you have/had problems with your 1010 .... it's not too surprising, Sandy/Ivy bridge chipsets (z77) have "bridged" PCI slots, and these are known to bring problems with lots of PCI soundcards, some still work well (RME), some don't (M-audio), check out Maudio forum about it.. it's well documented, but I **think ** they got it sorted with a driver update. Anyways.. sorry to hijack the thread ! Cheers ! V
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vlab
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 17:07:07
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M-Audio have the worst drivers known to man! markyzno
M-Audio......
Theres the problem right there.
M-Audio have the worst drivers known to man!
Check out this site: http://www.dawbench.com/ Where this guy does extensive testing of a bunch of sound cards, beside RME, Maudio profire is the one giving the best performance regarding drivers. Cheers ! V
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siordanescu
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 17:18:26
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not true! i own a m-audio projectmix and it”s works fantastic!...no trouble at all with the drivers!....under win 7. the trouble with our friend is that he use old computers with old windows system!
HP EliteBook 8460p Intel core i7-2620M, 2,7 ghz, 8G RAM, Win 10 x64, CAKEWALK by BANDLAB, SONAR PLATINUM, M-AUDIO PROJECTMIX, ALESIS IO 26, TASCAM US 16x08, TC ELECTRONIC KONNEKT 24 D, ROLAND V SYNTH, ROLAND XP 50, M AUDIO PROKEYS 88.
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markyzno
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Re:bye bye ASIO, hello WDM
2013/02/13 17:40:21
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Hey,, Thanks for the headsup but my 1010 was actually hanging Sonar X1 and X2 on my old system which was an Intel Quadcore..... In my sig if you see, I am now using a MOTU Audio Express for Sonar and the Delta 1010 for PT 10.3.2.... All works now.... The issue on my old machine was the old (yawn) problem of SONARDPR.EXE not releasing the M-Audio drivers and therefore had to do a reboot everytime SONAR crashed (which was OFTEN) Anyways, all sorted now...I essentially now have two studios in one box. vlab
markyzno
I agree with the above comments about Asio4all....
M-Audio does support ASIO so go with that.....
But, from my awful experience with the Delta 1010 and Sonar I wish you the best of luck.
Hey Markyzno !
Checking your hardware in your signature, and seeing you have/had problems with your 1010 ....
it's not too surprising, Sandy/Ivy bridge chipsets (z77) have "bridged" PCI slots, and these are known to bring problems with lots of PCI soundcards, some still work well (RME), some don't (M-audio),
check out Maudio forum about it.. it's well documented, but I **think ** they got it sorted with a driver update.
Anyways.. sorry to hijack the thread !
Cheers !
V
Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >Sound Design on IMDB --
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