timidi
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 18:30:21
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I think they listen while keeping their business model in mind.
I've been with Cake a loooooooong time and it doesn't seem to change. They strategically break stuff so they can bring it back later as the fans beg for it and then they charge for it. It helps to keep new product flowing. EVERYONE will buy a solution. But, you can't sell a solution unless you create the problem sometimes.
Which customers they listen to are most likely the newbies and punk kids that want to be rock stars.
IE: THE MASSES.
They have to care a little about their base. But, I think they know their longstanding base is getting up there in years..
JMO.
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Moshkiae
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 18:54:38
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timidi
I think they listen while keeping their business model in mind.
JMO.
So you're suggesting that if they make money they do not need to listen to customers, but if they are not making money they will start listening? ... HEY GUYS ... STOP BUYING! (Hehe) Not sure that's healthy. The history of "software" is people that do not listen because they "know" and you "don't", and they expect you to pay them for their time, and of course, we never pay them enough! IF, you are as good, as nice, and as caring and careful as you can with your investment, you would be totally stupid to not listen to everyone ... with one problem ... it has a tendency to scramble your brains and you lose sight of things or even the ability to tell ... when someone is right or not! I kinda learned this with John Lennon on an interview ... everyone is your friend, and then everyone this and that and all of a sudden you can't even make up your mind ... and it's true ... IF you are not centered inside, you WILL NOT have the ability to see it correctly, but then, if you are not smart enough to know the difference? That's another story, isn't it? Then we're talking about some personality thing or other, aren't we? And you hope that you can make a business decision that is right instead of a half baked emotional decision that is wrong!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 19:20:06
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Here's what Cakewalk's much publicized success smells like: It seems like only yesterday Cakewalk got my previous payments and I didn't get nothing. I have a license to X1 but I uninstalled it. I have a license to Expanded, but I never down loaded it. I have a couple of Pro Channel extras... never downloaded them either. SONAR 8.5.2 is running great. I'm not looking for discount pricing on my next upgrade... I willing to pay full price for my favorite DAW, but the company that makes it is acting like it doesn't need my money. Roland may want to re-evaluate what Cakewalk defines as success.
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timidi
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 19:32:37
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Moshkiae
timidi
I think they listen while keeping their business model in mind.
JMO.
So you're suggesting that if they make money they do not need to listen to customers, but if they are not making money they will start listening? ... Well, they obviously don't listen. (the whole color thing) No, I was trying to say, they listen to who they want to be their customers. It's a lot harder to get customers than to keep them.
HEY GUYS ... STOP BUYING!
(Hehe)
Not sure that's healthy. The history of "software" is people that do not listen because they "know" and you "don't", and they expect you to pay them for their time, and of course, we never pay them enough!
IF, you are as good, as nice, and as caring and careful as you can with your investment, you would be totally stupid to not listen to everyone ... with one problem ... it has a tendency to scramble your brains and you lose sight of things or even the ability to tell ... when someone is right or not!
I don't think They can "be all" to "everyone".
I kinda learned this with John Lennon on an interview ... everyone is your friend, and then everyone this and that and all of a sudden you can't even make up your mind ... and it's true ... IF you are not centered inside, you WILL NOT have the ability to see it correctly, but then, if you are not smart enough to know the difference?
I thought we were talking about a company here. Are you talking about me? I don't get your references to "you", "personality", "your personality" etc.
That's another story, isn't it? Then we're talking about some personality thing or other, aren't we? And you hope that you can make a business decision that is right instead of a half baked emotional decision that is wrong!
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timidi
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 19:36:16
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Yea Mike, I have X1 and all the goodies. The best use I've found is that you can open your project in 8.5 AND open the same project or different one in X1 and have it on the other screen. Kind of useful sometime. If I had the time and money and determination, I would do what your friends have been telling you to do for 15 years. PT.
post edited by timidi - 2012/09/26 21:00:24
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 19:36:51
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mike_mccue
It seems like only yesterday
Cool link Mike, some very informative data... Like on this graph, you can actually see the exact point in time when you started whining about X1:   Coincidence? I think not 
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Beagle
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 20:05:23
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OMG! Really? 
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 20:10:05
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Straummy knows his way around a balance sheet Beag 
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Beagle
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 20:29:53
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SteveStrummerUK
Straummy knows his way around a balance sheet Beag
do you balance them on your nose while juggling?
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Jonbouy
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 20:51:19
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I'm not looking for discount pricing on my next upgrade...
Why on earth not? Does it run better the more you pay for it?
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:06:21
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The graph shows Rolands performance, I get that. Would Cakewalks' performance good or bad have even registered on that graph? As many times as that chart appears it never says anything about the performance of our favourite DAW vendor at all other than it shows some huge waves for a small craft to be sailing on.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/09/26 21:07:24
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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trimph1
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:09:13
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It just shows the total stock price as of a certain date...sales figures would also show just total aggregate sales rather than particular.
post edited by trimph1 - 2012/09/26 21:11:02
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:13:03
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Jonbouy
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:13:21
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trimph1
It just shows the total stock price as of a certain date...sales figures would also show just total aggregate sales rather than particular.
Exactly, so we have no idea how Sonar is performing among it's competitors or even in the context of Rolands current misfortunes. It's a completely useless graph given the subject.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:17:15
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Jonbouy
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:20:10
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Yeah right.
Totally relevant figures then.
Well done!
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:29:00
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Jonbouy
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:32:23
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mike_mccue
"reliable and stable"
http://youtu.be/LY_iPbew5DM
Do you have a link to download that vid, only I find it preferable than streaming from You Tube. Is it worth even bothering to click on?
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:33:43
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Jonbouy
mike_mccue
"reliable and stable"
http://youtu.be/LY_iPbew5DM
Do you have a link to download that vid, only I find it preferable than streaming from You Tube.
Is it worth even bothering to click on?
I thing it streams with new varispeed technology. I'm not sure though since my dulcimer is in the shop.
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Bub 
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:33:44
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I've been in the printing biz since the late 80's. I've never once heard of or seen a Roland Wide Format. Never saw them listed in a supply (ink and paper replacement) catalog.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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trimph1
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:35:16
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Jonbouy
mike_mccue
"reliable and stable"
http://youtu.be/LY_iPbew5DM
Do you have a link to download that vid, only I find it preferable than streaming from You Tube.
Is it worth even bothering to click on?
FP-740s Sublimate Cycling Team Apparel
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 21:41:12
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I'd like one of these 104" printers:  but I don't think I'd be able to afford the ink.
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Rain
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/27 00:49:52
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Beagle
Steinberg and Avid couldn't care less what I want on my DAW.
I remember last summer getting an e-mail from Cakewalk about an inquiry I had about a product in their store which I wanted to buy - so long after I had e-mailed them that I had ended up buying from someone else in the mean time even if it costed me more. I'm talking about weeks... Around the same time, Avid got back to me w/in a few hours w/ a customized solution and a private download link when I inquired about a product which was free w/ my audio interface. They also wrote back afterwards to verify whether or not I was up and running. Just last week, Steinberg/Yamaha got back to me w/in 2 business days when I inquired about some free hardware they were sending my way. Now, these are some of the worst companies to do business w/ if I rely exclusively on my past knowledge. Right after NI. Steinberg I still can't recommend for many reasons. The way they dropped DX compatibility w/o any announcement or the way they continually drop support for products cannot be excused. Do they listen to customers when it comes to implementing new features or re-introducing them? If you ask me, no worst than Cakewalk and I believe they're getting better, though I take everything they say w/ a grain of salt. As for Avid - if we're talking Pro Tools, they do incorporate the features - sometimes ridiculously long after the competition. But one thing that can be said is that they have a sense of legacy. If you've learned how to work on Pro Tools 5 and have to work on PT 10, the features have been integrated w/ the utmost respect for the way things used to work and keeping the hardware-based set ups in mind. For example, they won't just re-assign all the keyboard shortcuts you are used to because they are re-iventing the wheel.
post edited by Rain - 2012/09/27 00:51:58
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Beagle
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/27 09:00:13
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Rain - I am certain that Avid and Steinberg/Yamaha have some great feedback at times. there are always exceptions to every rule. I was merely speaking from an average or general populous type situation and the DX compatibility which Steiny dropped without even asking the users is one of the reasons I said that. a LOT of users were extremely angry about that and some are still very bitter about it.
As for Avid, I agree that they are great with legacy as they should be in order to keep their status, but I don't see them really "listening" to the customers as far as you or I go. will they listen to the big studios who use HD systems? of course! but I can't imagine they would listen to me. and since they acquired M-audio, I have personally had proof that they don't listen there regarding an m-audio product I bought before they bought the company.
It's just my opinion anyway - I have no statistics to back that up and if you've had good luck with them listening to you then I am happy about that!
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Jonbouy
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/27 11:07:30
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Here's another good example of Cakewalk's listening being selective. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2674545 How many years have people been speaking about stuff like this? I swear some of these types of issues go back as far as MS-DOS limitations. You certainly don't bump into them in more 'modern' applications. You see this stuff to a similar extent in things like Cubendo and stuff with a similar 'heritage' but never in the newer DAWs. Whilst they also may be minor niggles they do, when they are all totalled up, tarnish the idea that X2 is some shiny product resulting directly from current customer feedback.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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spacey
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/27 11:14:30
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I remember when I first got into this and the transport
wasn't even like a simple cassette machine...I knew I was
in for a trip from the get-go.
Look how long it took just to get a "pause" feature LOL.
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timidi
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/27 11:26:03
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Whilst they also may be minor niggles they do, when they are all totalled up, tarnish the idea that X2 is some shiny product resulting directly from current customer feedback. I have a "niggle" in the File/info (or wherever it is in X1) being basically the same as Cake3.1. At least let it default to where you're going to actually type something. Of course there are other niggles. But, this one always pops up in my DOS brain for some reason. I've meant to stop complaining but my teeth hurt.
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