brundlefly
Hmmm... 6 posts. How'd I miss that? Where's my Troll-B-Gone spray...

and that fox-news like behaviour is getting old as well sir...

Phil G
Saddly there's nothing we can do. I tried earlier in 2014 to raise this issue (amongst others that I eventually sorted out) in another thread I initiated but my login info doesn't seem to work anymore for some reason?... i think the thread was entitled something like " i wanna love x3".
 
I chatted privatly with Craig (who is a very nice fella btw), Noel tipped in... but on cake's side comping and the comp tool are "the thing". For us it's a workflow issue so I guess they can't get it, because it's one thing to think of and design a tool, but it's another one to use it everyday for years, abuse it and twist what it can actually do!
 
so they just don't understand.
 
But it's a definitive and final NO, to Craig, to Cake :  you cannot do as much with the comptool/takelane combo in the  as you could with layers, except fot a more efficient COMPING/Speedcomping, and who cares about comping when you're trying to be creative and play around with your audio...
 
Seriously, if the comp tool was optional in lane context, it would be a step further getting back the workflow/possibilities a lot of people miss from the layer days.
 
and may no-one tell me about learning how to use the tools... I know this soft inside out, this has nothing to do with "learning". Something unique and trully cool died with the replacement of the layer system. They just didn't know what they had in their hands!

Hmm thats sad to hear, all hope is lost then, comping tool can still be their "the thing" but whats so wrong with an on/off option for it? I dont get it...

Here comes bad comparisons (feel free to insert more)
Its like snap, i dont want it on always
salt/sugar, i dont use it always...

Having an option to enable/disable a tool on the fly is a very powerful thing, you simply use it when you need it, not change your years long workflow to only one way solution...

so, cake, be a nice chap and make an on/off option for comping tool..

At the end, Im paying for this stuff too, dont forget that :)

brundlefly

Phil G
Disable the comp tool.

Snarky answer to snarky response: F7
 
You know what I mean: the number one creative/compositional thing.

And to answer properly : speed! the comp tool gets in the way and slows you down because it makes you aim when you want to move parts around, you mute/unmute regions often by accident, it's just in the way of all things other than comping when you still need the very handy smart tool. Disabling the comp tool when using smart tool should would be a really great landmark imho

Phil G

brundlefly

Phil G
Disable the comp tool.

Snarky answer to snarky response: F7
 
You know what I mean: the number one creative/compositional thing.

And to answer properly : speed! the comp tool gets in the way and slows you down because it makes you aim when you want to move parts around, you mute/unmute regions often by accident, it's just in the way of all things other than comping when you still need the very handy smart tool. Disabling the comp tool when using smart tool should would be a really great landmark imho

Couldnt said it better!

Thank you Phil G, together we shall fight this king comp tool from the land cakewalkia :)
A comp tool should know its place and not be in our way while our most creative process... We shall call him when we need him...

dwardzala
Why don't you guys put a feature request in?  I don't think that forum was available when you guys originally raised the issue.
 
Also, have you tried using matrix view as a creative tool?  The work flow will be different, but you might be able to achieve the same results, by placing clips in cells and "layer them together" by playing the cells together in different combinations.

I have done it a time ago, but reported it as a bug :) and Im afraid 2 people feature requesting this wont change a thing unless many more people do it so cakewalk understands this issue and the need of a on/off for the comp tool...

dwardzala
The new feature request forum allows people to voice their support through voting buttons and a rating process and is a tool the bakers use to identify features that would be popular with the customer base.

and on paper this is a great idea but it's the same idea that made the "o" lose it's default keybinding... because loud users got "confused" and voiced it all loud and clear. It's that same idea that made the very essential phase flip button disappear from the trackview and into the track inspector on a PER TRACK basis... Same goes for the transpose/time shift sliders. See the real issue is the sheer amateurism of the requests, and its their number that get a lot of attention and that made sonar UI more "entry level" than it was before i'm sorry to say. So no there is nothing to do because they won't be popular with the sonar new base of user. None of this is to be taken out of context please... It's just a reality check.

And what's crazy is that X3 actually sounds much better than 8.5. I don't know what they did in the engine but there is a clear difference in the quality of the monitoring (not the exports, but the monitoring, while you are working) The sound got cleaner and the UI got dumbed down. Sad!

Anderton
Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 
 
I think one of the most important parts of the article follows this paragraph: Avoid using the comping-specific tools for standard editing. Much of what makes comping so cool involves semi-automated Smart Tool-oriented editing features; if you instead do edits manually, Take Lanes behave more like Layers. For some editing scenarios you may need to go back and forth among the Select, Edit and Mute tools, but calling them up with the function keys (F6, F8 and F10, respectively) speeds up this process.

Craig ;) enough with "comping" already :) I know you love it but this is NOT about comping at all! The fact that some users do not understand the WORKFLOW achievable with the old layer paradigm doesn't justify it being completely erradicated from years of workflow that made sonar trully appart (and ahead in a way) of the rest. I told you this before in my other thread, layer was trully a godsend for coming up with crazy arrangement parts quickly. If you or others don't get it it's one thing, but others that remained maybe more quiet did.

What would put an end to this debate is one simple thing : make the smart tool CUSTOMiZABLE! let us choose what happens when hovering to this or that part of a clip! everybody would be happy, including me, the 8.5 nazi :)

Phil G

Anderton
Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 
 
I think one of the most important parts of the article follows this paragraph: Avoid using the comping-specific tools for standard editing. Much of what makes comping so cool involves semi-automated Smart Tool-oriented editing features; if you instead do edits manually, Take Lanes behave more like Layers. For some editing scenarios you may need to go back and forth among the Select, Edit and Mute tools, but calling them up with the function keys (F6, F8 and F10, respectively) speeds up this process.

Craig ;) enough with "comping" already :) I know you love it but this is NOT about comping at all! The fact that some users do not understand the WORKFLOW achievable with the old layer paradigm doesn't justify it being completely erradicated from years of workflow that made sonar trully appart (and ahead in a way) of the rest. I told you this before in my other thread, layer was trully a godsend for coming up with crazy arrangement parts quickly. If you or others don't get it it's one thing, but others that remained maybe more quiet did.

What would put an end to this debate is one simple thing : make the smart tool CUSTOMiZABLE! let us choose what happens when hovering to this or that part of a clip! everybody would be happy, including me, the 8.5 nazi :)

Agree on that, Customizable smart tool, yes please!! Please do it!

Is it possible Craig? :)

I will do a mockup of this settings menu tonight :)

Phil G

dwardzala
The new feature request forum allows people to voice their support through voting buttons and a rating process and is a tool the bakers use to identify features that would be popular with the customer base.

and on paper this is a great idea but it's the same idea that made the "o" lose it's default keybinding... because loud users got "confused" and voiced it all loud and clear. It's that same idea that made the very essential phase flip button disappear from the trackview and into the track inspector on a PER TRACK basis... Same goes for the transpose/time shift sliders. See the real issue is the sheer amateurism of the requests, and its their number that get a lot of attention and that made sonar UI more "entry level" than it was before i'm sorry to say. So no there is nothing to do because they won't be popular with the sonar new base of user. None of this is to be taken out of context please... It's just a reality check.

And what's crazy is that X3 actually sounds much better than 8.5. I don't know what they did in the engine but there is a clear difference in the quality of the monitoring (not the exports, but the monitoring, while you are working) The sound got cleaner and the UI got dumbed down. Sad!

I think you are making assumptions based on your perceptions.  In any case, in the amount of time it took you to write the post of above, you could have posted your request in the feature request forum.
 
I didn't realize that simpler and easier to use made something more "entry level" or that it was a bad thing.  Your request is also intended to make your work flow simpler, right?

Anderton

Phil G

Anderton
Those who want to use Take Lanes as they did layers might find helpful. I still favor using multiple tracks in a folder instead of Take Lanes, but for heavy layered parts, Take Lanes are great. 

Craig ;) enough with "comping" already :)

My response had nothing to do with comping, it was about ways to use the Take Lanes more like Layers within the program's current functionality. There is nothing I can do in a forum post to alter the Smart Tool's behavior. 

Ok I posted a request in what i thinks is the appropriate forum

orhanproject

Is it a poll? Link? Can i vote on it?

there's a forum for that Ideas and suggestions or something like this
 
i can't post links somehow
 

orhanproject

Phil G

orhanproject

Is it a poll? Link? Can i vote on it?

there's a forum for that Ideas and suggestions or something like this
 
i can't post links somehow
 

Found it now

I guess we have to vote?

brundlefly

 
In any case, I'd support a feature request for a programmable Smart Tool.

Thnx for the support !

orhanproject
Hey Phil, I found the thread and rated, I accidentaly rated 4, but wanted rate 5 stars, my stupid phone screen got in the way (should have zoomd in)

Damn smartphones ;)