3 incarnations and no "Envelope" improvements?

Hi all,

Looked at SONAR 8 demo and props to Cakewalk for all the improvements but what about "Envelopes". From what I see there still the same. Its one of the reasons I can't justify upgrading. I'm holding out for this.


Just posting my 2c and hope the Cakewalk folk look to improve envelope management in the next version. It can;t be overlooked forever...

There are issues with deleting sections of envelopes using the Edit -> Delete -> Delete Hole command. The resulting edited envelope is *not* what one would expect.

Some users have encountered other problems with envelopes not behaving as expected as well. Like moffdnb, I really haven't felt compelled to upgrade from SONAR 6 knowing that the problems are still present in S8.

Hear hear!


meh!

A wider range of segment shapes would be nice.

I'd like to see this covered by a 'User' shape category. Perhaps a small child window, where users could graphically create envelopes, and store them as shape presets. I'm visualizing a similar process to hardware synth 'tracking generators'. I suppose that the same could be accomplished by 'capturing' an envelope in situ, with a 'Save Envelope as User Shape' command.

It'd be helpful to have the current 'Snap to Grid' indicated somewhere while working with the Envelope Draw tool, as it has such a core relationship to its functionality. In the same vein, a better indication of the initial / current value position would be extremely useful, for much the same reason.

And how about the missing reciprocal operation: Convert Shapes to MIDI? The current workaround utilizes a simple virtual MIDI cable routing, so it's not that difficult to implement. But 'Convert Shapes to MIDI' could benefit from having a user-adjustable data-thinning process. In fact, envelopes in general could use a procedure for 'intelligently' reducing node count to a workable number of nodes and line segments.

In the VMC workaround mentioned above, input quantize simply 'piles up' the converted MIDI data onto the same 'stems' at the quantized points. CAL thinning routines work arithmetically; not as intelligent processing filters. The advantages of 'Convert Shapes to MIDI' include the ability to 'groove clip' former envelopes, and all of the dragging/copying/pasting operations that go along with it. Effectively, you're creating MIDI LFOs from envelopes/shapes, and they can be routed towards any track/synth/effect parameter as processing.

This type of conversion also gives former envelope/shapes access to the Process menu. Length, Slide. Retrograde, Groove / Quantize, the Interpolate goldmine (labyrinth), ... all can be used to manipulate the results into a huge variety of practical & useful 'shapes'.

It should be possible to use a modifier key with EITHER the select tool OR the envelope tool, which would turn one into the other.

When the Envelope Draw tool first landed, I spent many a frustrated moment looking for this very operation. It seemed like such an obvious inclusion that I figured I must be missing something.

While we're grousing about envelopes, I'll toss in my favorite envelope-related feature requests: envelope scaling and inversion.

Scaling means being able to select an envelope or a portion of an envelope and increase or decrease the magnitude of each node's variance from the mean. Example: you have a carefully-crafted volume envelope on a track that's just perfect but you just want to make the volume swings more dramatic (or more subtle) overall.

Inversion means turning an envelope upside-down. You could copy an envelope from one track, paste it into another track and invert it so that each track's envelope is a mirror-image of the other. Or clone an envelope within the same track and invert it, so that two parameters can be automated in a complementary fashion, such as bringing up one filter while bring down another.

I can think of lots of other things I'd like to be able to do with envelopes, but these two are the most useful and probably trivial to implement.

Very good suggestions for envelope enhancement!

ORIGINAL: Vovchik

And how about simple "Create Node At NOW Time"?

Ah, yes this might be a useful addition to the existing "Create envelopes at selection". (A very useful, but maybe a bit forgotten feature...)

And that archaic distinction between "slow", "fast" and "linear" segments has to go too. Imho there's only 2 types needed: jump and curve. With the latter being able to be "bent" seamlessly between slow and fast extremes, linear being just a special case of a curve.

Agree 100%. "Slow" and "fast" terms (as shown in Sonar's envelopes) change, when applied to increasing or decreasing values. And there's no need to look beyond the in-house Instruments development for solutions. Take DimPro / Rapture's envelopes as a ready-made template.

Drag the line segments up or down to the desired shape. Hit a keyboard shortcut to switch between a variable power & an exponential curve. Double-click on a line segment to return to linear. For that matter, a line segment, dragged to either extreme, gives the same result that a "jump curve" does.

The nodes placement is free-wheeling by default, or 'snaps to grid' with a context menu setting. There are several methods for zooming, advancing, and fitting the envelope; all within easy reach. And 'scaling' and 'inversion' are handled by positive/negative Depth amounts.