feedback needed OT

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jcschild
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2008/10/23 08:56:12 (permalink)

feedback needed OT

Hey Guys,
at the risk of looking trollish i am posting a few links.

i have been debating with my guys for yrs now over our websites.

my contention is our sites our easy to navigate (i keep trying to make them better)
yet we get the "i didnt know you sold that" (apple, Mixers, UADs, Mics, Studio Monitors etc) from our existing clients.

we also have a video editing site where we hear alot of lack of ability to navigate... (how can you make videos and not navigate a site?)

i really need some opinions outside of our little world.

their contention is we need more picures (icons) of products.

on the video site i changed alot of it in the last few days do i need something like it on audio?

thanks for taking the time and no comment will be considered an insult i just need the facts so i can make it better

Audio
www.adkproaudio.com

Video
www.adkvideoediting.com


post edited by jcschild - 2008/10/23 13:11:36

Scott
ADK
Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
#1

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    Fog
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 09:03:07 (permalink)
    Scott dunno if your aware, the search falls over. I did a search for a "delta"

    and got a >>

    Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'

    [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] The Microsoft Jet database engine cannot open the file '(unknown)'. It is already opened exclusively by another user, or you need permission to view its data.

    /include/connect.asp, line 5

    back


    the layout is a bit cluttered for me, I use www.dv247.com a lot.. I like the layout of that.

    other sites like 3xs ( www.scan.co.uk ) http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ have a system builder page

    I don't like how much space is taken up by the makers logos at the bottom, or the massive ADK logo..
    post edited by Fog - 2008/10/23 09:10:40
    #2
    Freddie H
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 09:10:22 (permalink)
    Hi Scott!


    I think the Video editing site is better..
    I like the flash & the Icons you made on the products “top” on first page, and the green line!

    Final Cut Systems ;Adobe Systems ;Avid Systems ;Vegas Systems ;Matrox Systems ;Decklink Systems ;Motu Systems ;AJA Systems



    I think you should change the http://www.adkproaudio.com/ to the same layout!


    Love the sponsor “brands” down on the first page too! Great place to have all advertising!

    Otherwise navigation clean and very fast... nice! Hey, Scott; make more and “newer” benchmarks thank you.
    VS DAW, OS, Memory, RAID etc...




    Regards
    Freddie

    post edited by Freddie H - 2008/10/23 09:14:41
    #3
    Milamber
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 09:42:16 (permalink)
    Scott,

    So here is my two cents worth:

    *) Your menuing system is very hard on the eyes a black background with white text is exhausting to look at.
    *) I did a search and received an ODBC driver error...bad, bad for customer experience...rather you should display a message indicating that you don't carry the item and for the customer to email you or call you with there request. This would allow you to tally the requested item and determine weather or not you should carry it as a sellable item on your website.
    *) Font size is too small...use a larger font size and fewer words.
    *) Normally an "Our Clinets" list is a lead list for competitors. Rather place a product or service review where your clients can tell you and others what they think of your service and product delivery. Use there title, name and a vague description of the company but no company names.
    *) Your add to cart button on this page (http://www.adkvideoediting.com/viewitem.cfm?id=1774) is too small. remember you are selling stuff and you need to let people know how to get the item in there cart "EASILY". Shopping and comparing shouldn't be a pain in the @ss.
    *) Every single product you sell down to nuts and bolts needs to have a thumbnail picture and a zoom in picture remember people are buying stuff on the net and when they go to the store they can at least touch what they are interested in buying.
    *) This next one is a hard one to swallow for most companies selling on the net but a few have figured it out and they have figured it out early. People that shop on the net (again my opinion) are looking strictly for price competitive items. They will go through page after page of price searching on google to find the absolute best price and then IF they are gonna buy something they might buy it from the cost leader. I say they might because when we are talking thousands of dollars many people want to go to a sales person personally and ring there neck if something goes wrong. Newegg is a great site to look at as they have figured out pricing, delivery, order fulfillment and customer experience.
    *) If you are selling a unique product do not justify your prices. They are what they are and if the customer can find something that costs less then they weren't serious about looking at your stuff to begin with. DELL is NOT the price leader but they still manage to find there niche and Michael never justified his pricing with customers online.
    *) Get a FAQ about your online store that addresses common questions.
    *) Get a privacy policy so customers know they aren't going to have their info sold or they are going to have there info sold but at least they know.
    *) The call or email for best price on this page is Hooey (http://www.adkvideoediting.com/Pmon.cfm) you either have the best price or you don't but this is the net and customers don't have the time to bother and you are giving them another reason to leave your site.
    *) I like the view details link next to the pictures but make the pictures themselves hot links as well...always give the customer ample opportunity to get to the product of interest quickly and easily.
    *) You might consider a clearance link to get rid of gear you have been sitting on for a while. Also do the wal mart thing and reduce the price on the gear as time elapses...keep in mind this is crap you have to sit on and depreciate anyway...retail clothing departments have got this down to a science they lose no sleep at all when it comes to cloths that don't move.
    *) Your sales and support phone numbers in black bold on a white background run into each other...
    *) Again my personal preference would to never use any flash on a web site. It draws to much attention from the other people around me at work so they know I am not doing my job...lol funny but true flash does draw attention, most people shop or cruise the net at work and most people do not want to draw there managers attention to the fact that they aren't doing what they are being paid to do...Hmmmmm
    *) Your return policy needs to be seamless and without cost based on my prior observation.

    *** Sorry if I offended you, I was just following orders in your post...please remember this is just my opinion although slightly educated (I have done project management for this type of development in the past).

    -Ken Q.
    #4
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 09:46:52 (permalink)
    Hi Scott,

    I just went to both sites.

    Here's some comments.

    1) I've never seen a website with actual content that SOMEBODY didn't whine about the navigation... people want what they want on the front page... so you will always have some issue with that. I have a client with a 5 page business card site that represents 2 guitar shows he promotes. Once a month I get a frantic phone call... someone can't see a downloaded .pdf entry form (it's my fault)... someone can't seem to figure out to click on the link to get to a second tier page (5 pages total and 2 .pdf downloads... it's my fault)

    2) Because you are in business and have goals you have motivation to help that sort of web surfer find what they want.


    3) Your banner is 230 pixels high. That's a lot of real estate to devote to your branding when you are finding that your existing and repeat customers are having trouble learning about what your site has to offer at a deeper level.

    4) Speaking for myself, If I came to your site I'd be pre qualified to regard you as a computer expert... so I might be willing to click thru to get to the various DAW systems you build. The point being that the column on the left that provides an overview of your computer line might be repurposed to emphasize that you have three main categories: Computer Systems, Studio Gear, Software.


    It seems to me that your current challenge is to bring your Studio Gear and Software sales to top of mind... the only way to do that is to let your DAW reputation work for you and be willing to make more space for the other products on your front page.

    This will be a never ending challenge. I've come to regard web sites as scabs that never heal. A printed catalog or TV commercial is so much easier to produce.

    You could also incorporate a flash animation at the top of the page that sequences through a series of themes... but I don't think anybody looks at that stuff... we've all become conditioned to it. The only people watching the animation are other web designers trying to see who is pushing the envelope with web programming.

    I do think web video is a huge opportunity for all small business. A few really well done "infomercials" on You Tube might be a way to present your full line in a way that someone might actually watch with interest... especially if it was peppered with testimonials from guys like Mr Anilay. But, I'd work on the traditional aspects of your site first.

    Finally I think there is a tendency to think in terms of magazine page layout and all the logos and graphics and columns make the page look cool and "pro" but there is an irony that although the page does look pro it may not be effective at driving people deeper into the site.

    The improvements you made to the Video site do give it a sharp look... but it may not be as effective as a simpler looking text based version that includes invitations to click on a link.


    After writing all this it occurs to me that a site like BHPhoto exhibits the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

    That site has gotten close to $100k in business from me... I appreciate it's no BS format... and yes it's not a perfect site... but it's effective.

    FWIW, I just got a fresh DAW from Jim. He's been helpful to me since I started with Cakewalk so I wanted to support that relationship. I regret not being able to support you as well and in the future I'll take a look at your site when I need some hardware.

    all the best,
    mike




    #5
    Hard2Hear
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 10:14:26 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Milamber
    *) This next one is a hard one to swallow for most companies selling on the net but a few have figured it out and they have figured it out early. People that shop on the net (again my opinion) are looking strictly for price competitive items. They will go through page after page of price searching on google to find the absolute best price and then IF they are gonna buy something they might buy it from the cost leader. I say they might because when we are talking thousands of dollars many people want to go to a sales person personally and ring there neck if something goes wrong. Newegg is a great site to look at as they have figured out pricing, delivery, order fulfillment and customer experience.
    *) The call or email for best price on this page is Hooey (http://www.adkvideoediting.com/Pmon.cfm) you either have the best price or you don't but this is the net and customers don't have the time to bother and you are giving them another reason to leave your site.


    Just a fyi for those who may not know. ALL manufacturers of Pro Audio gear (hardware, software, guitars, whatever) Have MAP policies (Minimum Advertised Price) for ALL their official dealers. If you violate that policy, your dealership (and support and warranties) for that product can be rejected by the manufacturer. If you see any website promoting Pro Audio gear for less than everyone else, its either used, refurbs, open box or demo, or not from an actual dealer of that equipment (i.e. bought from their cousin Louie after it fell off a truck). These policies do not apply to computer and consumer equipment like you would find at Newegg or Circuit City. So contacting for a lower price is a necessity in this market.

    Interface X has a MSRP of $1099, but you see it at GC, MF, and everywhere else for $899. Thats because the manufacturer has set a MAP price of $899 on said interface. That means they can not advertise (internet, paper, mailer) for less than that amount. BUT they can always sell it for less than that amount if they choose to. You just have to ask, and in this case, a phone call or email will get the actual price that dealer is willing to sell it for.

    I am always suprised by how many people don't realize MAP exists in the Pro Audio world.
    #6
    Fog
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 10:25:30 (permalink)
    Hard2Hear,

    depends as some companies (DV in the uk do it) .. if the product is damaged they class it as B-stock... OR if it's at the end of the line, clearance stock.. they don't want to be lumbered with stock they can't sell, even if it's at the cost they paid for it as wholesale not retail.

    e.g. I bought a b-stock of ozone which wasn't registered etc.. just the box was dented. dented box = £30 ($60) for me.. so it's all good.hehe

    sonar 7 is on offer here for a while to get rid of older stock. It's a good price for people who are getting into making music.

    emu are bringing out a new proteus, so the previous version is going cheaper.
    #7
    Hard2Hear
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 10:32:06 (permalink)
    Right. At end of life, or for other reasons, some products get MAP reduced or de-MAPped by the manufacturer. Look at the way UAD1 cards went down and down over their lifespan, thats a good example. The Yamaha N8 and N12 just had a fairly hefty MAP reduction from Yamaha as well. A certian reseller shows "$300.00 PRICE DROP! Was $1,499.99, Now Just $1,199.99!" and it makes you think they are doing you a favor, but in actuality Yamaha dropped MAP to allow it to be advertised at that amount.
    #8
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 10:47:22 (permalink)
    I disagree that EVERYONE shopping the net is absolutely price concious.

    I value shopping on the net because:

    1) Often times I can get product to my door faster than trying to find it in town.

    2) I can always find the kind of info I NEED... which sadly is not available at most street vendors any more.

    3) I do not have to endure little "white lies" from sales representatives. This I find intolerable and it's probably the primary reason I do a lot of business on the web.

    One thing I insist on when web shopping... I only do business with vendors with street addresses... I'm surprised how many vendors are floating on the web and avoid providing a mailing address... If a deal did go sour having a valid mailing address is vital for seeking recourse through legal channels.

    best regards,
    mike

    best regards,
    mike


    #9
    strikinglyhandsome1
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 11:31:38 (permalink)
    To be honest I mainly go on a site for a purpose

    The product page isn't good on the majority, in my opinion

    I've always thought it should be done better

    It's forever fiddly
    #10
    Andy C
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 11:36:15 (permalink)
    #11
    jcschild
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 11:51:02 (permalink)
    argghhhh....

    thanks guys
    Mike the comment about BandH god i hate them they are the walmart of video they break map all the time with video gear and get away with it
    audio they dont get away with...

    going to the front page they have pics... like i did on video (sorta) which is what some of my guys think we need...

    yes i know its never ending i am on like ver 7.

    26% of viewers on audio are @ 1024 res and 36% for video... (hard to believe in this day and age, i have been on 1280 or higher for 8 yrs) (1600 when i had a big CRT)

    so yes the large flash nav banner is taking up alot of space, my width is designed for 1024
    since 1024 is the largest viewing i am trying to get whats most important in that first 780 pix.

    we thought about dumping the flash header for rotating (flash, jpeg etc) of product.

    FOG, well dont know what to say about cluttered... i think DV247 is absurdly cluttered compared to us, and yes we have system configrators.
    see thats what i mean how did you miss that?






    Scott
    ADK
    Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
    #12
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 11:53:24 (permalink)
    As valid as validation is I think Scott's primary concern is the marketing part. The tech part is like keeping a ship a float... the ship is actually always sinking... you just need to keep the bilge pump working. The important thing is that people are somehow motivated to surf through the site and find what they need.

    That's why I refer to websites as scabs that will not heal.

    best regards,
    mike


    edit to prevent me from looking too foolish :-)

    post edited by mike_mccue - 2008/10/23 11:58:39


    #13
    jcschild
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 11:54:45 (permalink)
    Hey Andy,
    after going thru the first dozen or so that page is completely wrong...
    all the errors it says are there are not..LOL

    Scott
    ADK
    Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
    #14
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:03:19 (permalink)
    Scott,

    For what it's worth most of my BH business is video/photo related... so you haven't missed much. I get my audio gear from various specialty houses. You're on the list now.

    I remember in the seventies when BH was the king of "grey market" misrepresentation.

    At some point they became so big that they figured out it was easier to just sell product straight up and at volume.

    The reason I mentioned their site was to explain the mentality of no BS purchasing.

    I KNOW I could call a vendor and almost always beat BH's price... but I'd rather place the order and get it here without haggling with the type of sales rep I described above.

    I'm just relating that so you can store it in your collection of "customer profiles"... we all look for something different in a deal.

    I look for pain free interaction. Happy Happy!

    all the best,
    mike


    edit to add: The pics at BH's front page are Category ICONS not branding icons... I think that's the difference to consider.
    post edited by mike_mccue - 2008/10/23 12:08:36


    #15
    sandman5000
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:05:55 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: jcschild

    looking trollish






    how about a little respect for Cakewalk? It's members or the fact that this is a SONAR forum. You could at least put this in the gear section or something.


    At the very least, you could show some respect by putting OT in the title.

    this marketing spam should be moved and doesn't belong here. Scott, you should know better but obviously feel entitled.
    #16
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:11:23 (permalink)

    How does this discussion hurt Cakewalk?

    Maybe Scott can sell a few more copies of SONAR with the improvements he wishes to make.

    best regards,
    mike


    #17
    sandman5000
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:17:08 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue


    How does this discussion hurt Cakewalk?

    Maybe Scott can sell a few more copies of SONAR with the improvements he wishes to make.

    best regards,
    mike


    Well, it's in the TOS that everyone agreed to when joining:
    "Advertising
    Cakewalk does not allow any form of advertising, therefore promoting websites or products in the forum is inappropriate. Hyperlinks to 3rd party web sites are allowed only if they pertain directly to the discussion topic."

    so there is keeping your word and being an honest person for one.

    But there is also the unclear title. Put OT at least so people don't waste their time thinking they are going to help with a SONAR issue.

    like i said, this does not belong on this forum and should be moved.

    #18
    Fog
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:21:52 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: jcschild


    FOG, well dont know what to say about cluttered... i think DV247 is absurdly cluttered compared to us, and yes we have system configrators.
    see thats what i mean how did you miss that?



    I mean cluttered in the sense of compared to the amount of content.. hopefully that makes sense. yep you could say DV is cluttered , but compare the amounts of info on each home page.

    everything is in boxes on that site, so the focus isn't on the whole page.

    if your gonna have big SSL or UAD pics on the site.. then normally I'd expect a click able link that went into a more specific area.

    truth is when I go onto the sites, I normally head straight for the search bit and have a good idea what I'm interested in.

    here's another site I use >

    http://www.ebuyer.com/

    there is a LOT of info on the main page, with that site I head straight for the search button

    #19
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:25:43 (permalink)
    You've made a sound and reasonable argument.

    I will continue to disagree with your conclusion... but I certainly can't contend the points you have made.

    You should report this thread if you feel strongly.

    Personally, I think you are inciting an issue where the outcome will benefit no one.


    best regards,
    mike


    #20
    Hard2Hear
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:27:53 (permalink)
    Fog- very good points
    #21
    sandman5000
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:36:03 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue


    Personally, I think you are inciting an issue where the outcome will benefit no one.


    best regards,
    mike


    the benefit is that people can continue to come to the SONAR forum to discuss SONAR and things related to SONAR.

    Another benefit is that it keeps spamers from cluttering the place up.

    Hence the TOS and hence the fact that this forum is titled SONAR Producer and Studio.

    This thread does not belong here and it's offensive to me because I see it for what it is. A disrespect to the Sonar community and Cakewalk themselves. Maybe not a huge deal, but the principle is what counts.

    This should be moved and Scott should know better and have more respect.
    #22
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:39:31 (permalink)
    I understand your premise which leaves me to wonder why you are posting to this thread.

    Just report it rather than cluttering up the forum with your justifications for being so single minded.

    I personally think tolerance goes a long way in this world. I recommend it.

    all the best,
    mike


    #23
    sandman5000
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:43:52 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

    I understand your premise which leaves me to wonder why you are posting to this thread.

    Just report it rather than cluttering up the forum with your justifications for being so single minded.

    I personally think tolerance goes a long way in this world. I recommend it.

    all the best,
    mike


    Whatever. Of course tolerance goes a long way. That isn't the point. Lets review my web site and improve it too. And everyone else while we are at it.

    The fact is that this place has been established as a SONAR discussion forum.

    Not a web site reviewing forum (there are plenty of those too).

    So this is a troll/spam thread. it's still inappropriate here.

    post edited by sandman5000 - 2008/10/23 12:47:24
    #24
    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 12:59:28 (permalink)
    Great! Give us your website address... I'm happy to help.

    I wonder if you have considered that by the rules you have cited above almost every link to a SoundClick page on this forum is in violation of the TOS.

    I am evidently in the company of hundreds of dishonest people... if I were to extend your valid reasoning to that subject.

    And I get to say this while smiling because if you happen to stumble over to my site you'll find a decidedly noncommercial website that exists purely to share.

    Sometimes logic and validity doesn't add up to a benefit for the greatest good.

    Are you going to reply and keep bumping this thread up to the top or are you gonna make the next move?

    best regards,
    mike
    post edited by mike_mccue - 2008/10/23 13:03:27


    #25
    jcschild
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 13:07:55 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: sandman5000


    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue


    How does this discussion hurt Cakewalk?

    Maybe Scott can sell a few more copies of SONAR with the improvements he wishes to make.

    best regards,
    mike


    Well, it's in the TOS that everyone agreed to when joining:
    "Advertising
    Cakewalk does not allow any form of advertising, therefore promoting websites or products in the forum is inappropriate. Hyperlinks to 3rd party web sites are allowed only if they pertain directly to the discussion topic."

    so there is keeping your word and being an honest person for one.

    But there is also the unclear title. Put OT at least so people don't waste their time thinking they are going to help with a SONAR issue.

    like i said, this does not belong on this forum and should be moved.





    advertising? please i am looking for feed back did you not read the post? do you ever see a link to my site or in my sig otherwise?

    thanks for being the forum police.

    Scott
    ADK
    Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
    #26
    sandman5000
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    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 13:08:46 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue



    I wonder if you have considered that by the rules you have cited above almost every link to a SoundClick page on this forum is in violation of the TOS.

    I am evidently in the company of hundreds of dishonest people... if I were to extend your valid reasoning to that subject.

    best regards,
    mike


    look my friend, I'm not gonna argue with you. Of course the soundclick links do not compare at all. What compares is "hey, look listen to my music at soundclick and tell me what you think". And there already is an appropriate forum for that.

    this is spam. There are way better places to ask for website feedback. places where people can tell you what specific html code if need be.

    So there really is no point to ask this in a SONAR forum. It's spam plain and simple.

    But whatever, I've made the point I wanted to make.

    Hopefully, at least people will be decent enough to put a big 'OT' in the title when a thread they start in the SONAR forum does not belong here.
    #27
    sandman5000
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 882
    • Joined: 2005/05/26 02:05:56
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 13:11:48 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: jcschild


    advertising? please i am looking for feed back did you not read the post? do you ever see a link to my site or in my sig otherwise?

    thanks for being the forum police.



    Whatever. This is a troll thread, just like you said in the very first sentence of this thread. But hey, since I'm not the police, feel free to disrespect Cakewalk and the people that come to the Sonar forum to discuss Sonar.


    BTW-there really are way better places for this type of feedback.
    #28
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
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    • Status: offline
    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 13:19:36 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: sandman5000


    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue



    I wonder if you have considered that by the rules you have cited above almost every link to a SoundClick page on this forum is in violation of the TOS.

    I am evidently in the company of hundreds of dishonest people... if I were to extend your valid reasoning to that subject.

    best regards,
    mike


    look my friend, I'm not gonna argue with you. Of course the soundclick links do not compare at all.


    99 cents a pop!

    So now you want to bend the rules!

    That's just not right! ;-)






    #29
    jcschild
    Max Output Level: -41 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3409
    • Joined: 2003/11/08 00:20:10
    • Location: Kentucky y'all
    • Status: offline
    RE: feedback needed 2008/10/23 13:25:52 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: sandman5000


    ORIGINAL: jcschild


    advertising? please i am looking for feed back did you not read the post? do you ever see a link to my site or in my sig otherwise?

    thanks for being the forum police.





    BTW-there really are way better places for this type of feedback.



    really? i posted this here due to this being the most friendly and civil forum, guess i was wrong on that account.
    also due to the repsect i have here as people KNOW i dont ever spam. i dont need to, my clients brag on me enough in here already.

    i also expected a decent amount as well as a wide variety of feeedback from differing POV.

    i needed feedback from the actual people who would view my site, not a code writter i can write code.

    Scott
    ADK
    Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
    #30
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