kc2ine 
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how many of you have perfect pitch?
I've read many times that sound engineers have very good ears or sometimes even perfect pitch
to be able to hear everything during mix. They can tell who is of tune or off beat etc and they are like God during session.
Is it really the case or just legend type stories and they don't really care what is recorded as long as they got paid?
I know now many pros are here so again just curious since all that recording business is new to me although been playing since I was a kid.
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Bub
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 00:04:42
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I think it's more accurate to say most have what they call Relative Pitch which is, you hear a note and you remember it. For example, you pluck the low E on a guitar, and you know what pitch the others should be tuned to based off hearing that note and you can tell if something is out of tune based off that reference note.
That's different than Perfect Pitch. People with PP can tell you the name of a note just by hearing it. They can tell what is a flat, sharp, etc.
I have Relative Pitch and it can be a curse, I couldn't imagine having Perfect Pitch.
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ltb
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 00:27:07
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Same here, Relative Perfect. By the way you can study, learn & acquire relative pitch unlike perfect. A guitars 'E' is a good example.
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StarTekh
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 01:54:48
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kc2ine: in responce to your question... I've read many times that sound engineers have very good ears or sometimes even perfect pitch to be able to hear everything during mix. They can tell who is of tune or off beat etc and they are like God during session. Yes..but there not god's..engineer/producer..talented as hell ya Is it really the case or just legend type stories No its true, ive personaly seen a 2in tape cut to the T perfect, I have the tape clipping's to this day they don't really care what is recorded as long as they got paid? then music as we all know it..wouldnt of happend on the level it did.. I hope this has help'd you . a little ... Oh and about the perfect pitch.. if only you knew how many time's... i wanted to take the guitar players guitar and wrap... and clubs... eyes roll...snicker's
post edited by StarTekh - 2011/08/23 02:11:30
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JonD
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 02:28:38
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Relative pitch can be learned, and it's quite useful. For example, I can write out a melody I hear in my head into notation without using a piano (or any instrument). It's not difficult to learn either -- many music theory books suggest associating each interval with a popular tune, and from there, with a bit of practice at listening, it becomes automatic.
Music theory students who go on to advanced levels are actually expected to be able to aurally identify intervals. I was more or less self taught, but my best friend from high school majored in music composition in college, and he said they had to learn relative pitch (and were tested thoroughly on it) by their second year.
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codamedia
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 08:03:00
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I'm not sure how any musician could not have "relative pitch" - it's a vital part of playing an instrument or singing. I guess a producer or engineer could live without it, but even then - I'm not sure how.
Perfect pitch is a different animal, and one that creates a lot of debate. I know two people with perfect pitch and they are no worse off for having it. Flat/sharp is more a case of "relative" not perfect. They know when something is not true 440, but they don't care. It does not "drive them nuts" so to speak.
I've heard the subtlety that is talked about as perfect pitch, and believe me - it is subtle and it is real. It can be learned with a lot of practice. The two notes on each end of the spectrum are "F# (brightness) and Eb (softness)". If you can hear the distinction between those then you can start to find the secrets hidden in the rest of them.
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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kc2ine
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 09:31:52
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codamedia
I'm not sure how any musician could not have "relative pitch" - it's a vital part of playing an instrument or singing. I guess a producer or engineer could live without it, but even then - I'm not sure how.
Perfect pitch is a different animal, and one that creates a lot of debate. I know two people with perfect pitch and they are no worse off for having it. Flat/sharp is more a case of "relative" not perfect. They know when something is not true 440, but they don't care. It does not "drive them nuts" so to speak.
I've heard the subtlety that is talked about as perfect pitch, and believe me - it is subtle and it is real. It can be learned with a lot of practice. The two notes on each end of the spectrum are "F# (brightness) and Eb (softness)". If you can hear the distinction between those then you can start to find the secrets hidden in the rest of them.
exactly, I cannot imagine musician without good relative pitch but I guess that can happen too when I listen to the radio :) Yes your're right you can learn "perfect" pitch or to be exact unlearn the way you're hearing right now. Because it's so basic and natural it's not easy and have something to do with returning your hearing to childhood stage. Good comparison is the painting - you know something is red or blue and you don't have to compare it to guitar E :) One more thing to realize PP is not perfect really, it can vary depending on you health, mood etc and that's normal and ok, we're not robots.
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LpMike75
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 09:46:17
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I read about a program in Japan that teaches kids perfect pitch. I will have to dig up the article, but it said something like they have 100% success rate in teaching perfect pitch if they start when the child is young enough. I think it was betweem 4-6 years old.
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kc2ine
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 10:05:08
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LpMike75
I read about a program in Japan that teaches kids perfect pitch. I will have to dig up the article, but it said something like they have 100% success rate in teaching perfect pitch if they start when the child is young enough. I think it was betweem 4-6 years old.
you don't really have to teach kids this just provide some training for them to maintain that natural skill. This is the perfect time in life to do this because kids have nothing to compare with, so their ears are not screwed up with relative pith sort of speak.
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pbognar
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 11:57:30
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Bub
I think it's more accurate to say most have what they call Relative Pitch which is, you hear a note and you remember it. For example, you pluck the low E on a guitar, and you know what pitch the others should be tuned to based off hearing that note and you can tell if something is out of tune based off that reference note.
That's different than Perfect Pitch. People with PP can tell you the name of a note just by hearing it. They can tell what is a flat, sharp, etc.
I have Relative Pitch and it can be a curse, I couldn't imagine having Perfect Pitch.
I'd have to agree - perfect pitch would seem to be a curse - there would be times where if everything wasn't the exact pitch, it might drive you nuts. And then there are people who have a form of synesthesia - where certain pitches evoke specific colors in one's mind. I'd like to try this for a day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia#Sound_.E2.86.92_color_synesthesia
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codamedia
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 19:21:32
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pbognar
Bub
I think it's more accurate to say most have what they call Relative Pitch which is, you hear a note and you remember it. For example, you pluck the low E on a guitar, and you know what pitch the others should be tuned to based off hearing that note and you can tell if something is out of tune based off that reference note.
That's different than Perfect Pitch. People with PP can tell you the name of a note just by hearing it. They can tell what is a flat, sharp, etc.
I have Relative Pitch and it can be a curse, I couldn't imagine having Perfect Pitch.
I'd have to agree - perfect pitch would seem to be a curse - there would be times where if everything wasn't the exact pitch, it might drive you nuts.
I simply don't understand the arguement. That's like saying having a great set of monitors would be a curse because music would suck when heard on anything else. The two people I know that have perfect pitch never complain about something not being in perfect tune. I know, because they play with me on occassion  In the end - it's all relative! Perfect only has to come in to play when wanted/needed.
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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Alegria
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 20:37:52
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What ever happened to "ear-training-on-the-go". You know, walking around with a tuning fork. Effortless, gradual and very effective. But my question is... perfect pitch in reference to a chromatic scale or equal temperament?
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RLD
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 20:54:41
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And remember "A" was 435 Hz until 1926... That must have really messed with those perfect folks.
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Philip
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 22:17:13
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Alegria
What ever happened to "ear-training-on-the-go". You know, walking around with a tuning fork. Effortless, gradual and very effective. But my question is... perfect pitch in reference to a chromatic scale or equal temperament?
Great thread! Yeah, its all pretty relative, I suppose. A tuning fork sounds like a great idea for teaching a band member how to slide up/down the signature as well. Great ears are priceless, IMHO! What takes experts a few seconds to discern what pitch is off, I wish I could pull off as well. Pitch is extremely important; like having all instruments 'singing in key', while the lead vox is out of key LOL. I think many 'lesser engineers' have no problems spotting when the lead is out of key --- hahaha!
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Bub
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/23 23:18:03
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codamedia
I'm not sure how any musician could not have "relative pitch" - it's a vital part of playing an instrument or singing. I guess a producer or engineer could live without it, but even then - I'm not sure how.
I was in a band one time with a guy who was tone deaf. He was an extremely talented guitar player and he was a walking encyclopedia of music, but the guy could not sing a note to save his life. What really gave him away was, we got in to an argument one night over Smoke On The Water. He was playing G and I was playing Gm and he couldn't hear that we were playing different chords. We got in to a heated discussion over it and he insisted it was G. It was funny, the next time we practiced, in the middle of the song he leans over to me and said he looked it up and I was right. I would say people like that are very rare but they are out there. He was the most talented guitar player I ever worked with and I'd put him up against anyone I've ever heard on the radio, but he probably never made it to the big time because he was tone deaf. I would imagine it's impossible to write your own material being that way.
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Alegria
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 00:06:02
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"Wikipedia"
Tone deafness affects the ability to hear relative pitch changes produced by a musical instrument.
However, tone deaf people seem to be disabled only when it comes to music, as they can fully interpret the prosody or intonation of human speech. Source: Tone Deafness Excuse my ignorance on this subject, but a tone deaf musician? How does he compose? It's also known as "Dysmelodia", which is quite descriptive of the condition.
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Rain
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 00:43:14
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I fake it ;) - I just happen to remember a song that opens with an "A" (the bell at the beginning of Ozzy's Center of Eternity). My memory usually doesn't transpose songs - that one still works even if I hadn't listened to that song in ages - I just tried it for fun and sure enough I could call the A straight before hearing it. So yeah, I guess I can pull you an A out of nowhere if you need one without any outside reference. What does that make me - perfect relative pitch from memory?
post edited by Rain - 2011/08/24 00:54:00
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Rain
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 00:45:10
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TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 06:09:51
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I did a quick test to see how good my pitch was. Got my guitar tuner and hummed what I thought was an E (have not played an instrument for over 24 hours). I got 40 cents above E. Less than a quarter step sharp. That's alright I think! Try it and post your results. I'm curious!
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Guitarhacker
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 08:03:08
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When it comes to perfect pitch....
I understand that there have been several individuals who have pitched perfect games, and many pitchers are amazing in their ability to pitch really fast and accurate....
I'm not a sports fan so I can't provide names..... but I understand Catfish Hunter was a good pitcher back in the day.... don't know if he ever pitched a perfect game.
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Slugbaby
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 08:18:05
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My wife has perfect pitch. She had great relative pitch before going to university for operatic vocals, but now has it honed.
I've got pretty strong relative pitch, but even with 25 years of guitar playing it was the 1.5 years of vocal lessons that solidified it.
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codamedia
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 08:21:48
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mattplaysguitar
I did a quick test to see how good my pitch was. Got my guitar tuner and hummed what I thought was an E (have not played an instrument for over 24 hours). I got 40 cents above E. Less than a quarter step sharp. That's alright I think! Try it and post your results. I'm curious!
I've never tried humming straight into a tuner, but I've been able to tune a guitar (especially with new strings) to pitch since the 80's (without any reference). Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that perfect/relative pitch will be affected by sleep, mood, etc.... You are 40 cents sharp today, but tomorrow you might be dead on, or 40 cents flat. I'm certainly not dead on very often, but at least I get the strings to the right tension for the guitar. I'm not sure this is true perfect pitch (same with the post by Rain) but more of a very good musical memory. With perfect pitch you can actually hear a subtlety within the note, and it is obvious once you find it. Think of one of those silly Magic Eye posters. Once you can actually see the object you wonder how you ever missed it. Then the next day - you can't find it again!
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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guitartrek
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 08:55:58
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kc2ine
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 10:47:21
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codamedia
With perfect pitch you can actually hear a subtlety within the note, and it is obvious once you find it. Think of one of those silly Magic Eye posters. Once you can actually see the object you wonder how you ever missed it. Then the next day - you can't find it again! exactly! That's actually weird that with perfect pitch there are so many misconceptions and misunderstandings although this is really natural and simple subject. People lost many nice skills because of civilization :) They cannot breath properly, walk, hear etc etc I wonder why we still managed to be able to distinguish colors...
post edited by kc2ine - 2011/08/24 10:53:14
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kc2ine
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 11:07:26
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V-Studio 100, Sony VAIO i7 2.93GHz/ 8GB RAM, Pianoteq, Sonar X1 Studio, ezDrummer, Macbook Pro, Roland RD700GX stage piano, Yamaha Motif XS6 workstation, Rode NT-1A, AKG Perception 220
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codamedia
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 11:29:57
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Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 11:52:13
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I've known engineers who had delusional pitch. That's where they think they have perfect pitch, but they're not even close. They also had inflated egos. Working with them was always a waste of time and money.
I remember one session with two engineers (always a bad start) recording an orchestral/rock band/group/herd. They would interrupt a good take to complain that the string section was not playing the right notes. Upon further investigation, we found they were actually tone deaf, but thought they had perfect pitch. There was no way to convince them of this, however.
In the end, we completed the project in spite of the engineers. I hope they didn't remain in the industry too long after that. I never trusted anyone who claimed to have perfect pitch after that. Maybe they had it, or maybe they didn't. I just didn't want to waste time finding out.
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Alegria
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 13:34:15
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"Rain"
So yeah, I guess I can pull you an A out of nowhere if you need one without any outside reference.
What does that make me - perfect relative pitch from memory? A poor customer for "electronic tuner" vendors? 
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kc2ine
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 14:10:45
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there is actually one pretty good course by David Lucas Burge which teaches you how get that skill back to you.
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Philip
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Re:how many of you have perfect pitch?
2011/08/24 14:26:41
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UbiquitousBubba
I've known engineers who had delusional pitch. That's where they think they have perfect pitch, but they're not even close. They also had inflated egos. Working with them was always a waste of time and money.
I remember one session with two engineers (always a bad start) recording an orchestral/rock band/group/herd. They would interrupt a good take to complain that the string section was not playing the right notes. Upon further investigation, we found they were actually tone deaf, but thought they had perfect pitch. There was no way to convince them of this, however.
In the end, we completed the project in spite of the engineers. I hope they didn't remain in the industry too long after that. I never trusted anyone who claimed to have perfect pitch after that. Maybe they had it, or maybe they didn't. I just didn't want to waste time finding out.
:) I increasingly realize: Engineers and fellow listeners are great, but there must be one's own validation of the song and pitches ... perhaps where vibe and pitch make or break the song. Or, too much focus on pitch --> mathamatical thinking instead of inspiration. Nailing the pitch is great, but vibe is far more important, in my songs. Or, 'bad pitch' may be like death and dying: one may not fear death but its not entirely welcome either.
post edited by Philip - 2011/08/24 14:31:55
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