its just a theory

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Bub
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Re:its just a theory 2012/11/19 10:29:48 (permalink)
Guitarhacker


When it sounds so real you can hear the rosin falling off the strings and the bow on the fiddle..... that's all I want.  Nothing more, nothing less. Since I don't have the time to learn the fiddle.....I use synths. 

Sampled or real.... doesn't matter. If it sounds real, then that's all one could ask for. 

Hasn't that been the goal pushing midi all along?  To get the synth sounds as real and as close to the original as possible....?  Why else would they use all those controllers for attack and decay and velocity if it wasn't to try to imitate as closely as possible the sound of the  Rhodes or the trumpet or the violin? 

I do believe they are getting really close with some of the products on the market.... give them another 5 to 10 years..... the progress will be amazing.

Despite all that,,, yes, it is still a noble and worthy pursuit to learn and master the playing of real instruments. I am still pursuing that goal with the guitar, the keyboards and most recently I have added a mandolin to that line up of things to learn to play well. 

The modern musician can be someone with nothing but samples and loops nothing but artificial intelligence software synths, nothing but real instruments or some combination of all of them. If the result is pleasing to the ear and to the soul... it is music regardless of how it was created. Music, after all, like art, comes form the soul of the person, not a bunch of hardware and software.
Like I said before ... people miss the point entirely.

I use samples all the time. I don't have a piano sitting in my living room, or a Hammond, or a full String Orchestra. But I actually am playing those instruments, just through my keyboard. There's a huge difference between a sample, and a loop. People blur the lines and lump them together when talking about this subject, but there is a no comparison between the two really.

What I'm talking about, and I think Chuck is talking about also, but I'm not sure, so I won't speak for him, is people who say, "Don't bother wasting your time actually playing and recording the instrument, and don't waste your time with things like Session Drummer 3 and Step Sequencer 2.0, just download a loop that someone else has already done for you and drag it in to the project and call it your own."

It will take another generation or two to weed out people like me, and Chuck who can actually hear the difference and don't care for it. Then you'll rarely see a guy who actually plays guitar, or drums, etc etc. Heck, even now, guys who hold instruments in bands are just there for looks.

You absolutely, without a doubt, know when Keith Richards, Vince Gill, Eddie Van Halen, and so on, are playing on stage. But honestly, when I see some of these newer acts live on TV or at the end of some late night talk show ... it's pretty clear the guy is just standing there holding a guitar or sitting behind drums because some exec said that particular group of guys looked good together.

At any rate ... I've said it before, it's kind of splitting hairs when talking about the guy who actually plays an instrument and the guy who arranges someone else's recordings, but I can certainly understand why Chucke got upset when the kid told him all his hard work was pretty much worthless.

And then to be told to basically piss off when he came here thinking he'd find some fellow musicians to sympathize with him, well ... that's a double kick in the nuts. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the thread ... some things were said, then removed.

Oh well. I got bigger fish to fry at the moment.



"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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spacey
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Re:its just a theory 2012/11/19 11:35:48 (permalink)
chuckebaby


spacey  
 
Unlike Chuck I spent my time learning for me.    
   
   
   
    
 
Chuckybaby
"@rain..good point,couldnt agree with you more.
it has been fun every part of the way.
i mostly play for me,which is like a theorpy in itself." 
  
  
  
 
this is a little confusing to me spacey ?
did you even read any of my posts ? 

Now that you've removed the insulting, childish rubbish I'll answer you.
It is also out of context now but it is of no matter.
 
I did read every word Charlie. I know exactly where you are coming
from.
I believe you are not understanding me so I'll explain, best I can.
 
My statement is when one has been focusing on their own self improvement
and talents they simply weigh out what is right or wrong for them to incorporate into
their art.
They aren't insulted by what others have to say or do with music when they have confidence
within.
My position and what I was trying to relate to, for you, is much like a martial artist. We know
that they are trained to defend themselves. They avoid the confrontations with their known
abilities. They have the inner confidence to know that there is no reason to do or say anything
until they are truly in danger. 
 
I too have spent years as a student of the guitar. I don't care what others think. You do. I don't care
if another thinks I'm a guitarist or not...a musician or not. What matters is what I think.
 
You were insulted by a person that you don't consider to be what you define as a "musician".
I see that as a weakness of yours. After all...what difference does
it matter what that dude thought or have to say? Was it going to make you a better musician?
Was it going to dimenish your talent in some way?
What difference does it make Charlie to you being a musician or producer?
 
I'm finished with this Charlie because I'm not into name calling, insulting or being insulted.
It's obviously a very touchy subject and I am not one that can resolve all the issues or care to
attempt to.
 
I do apologize for the misunderstanding. It was intended to possibly show you a different view
in a positive way. It didn't....so excuse me while I get me hat.
 
 
 
 
#32
jamesg1213
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Re:its just a theory 2012/11/19 13:45:13 (permalink)
I still think that this 'boogieman', this non-musician dragging and dropping loops and laughing all the way to the bank, doesn't actually exist. There are DJ's, re-mixers and producers who get involved in that, but I don't see any duplicity or claims of musicianship.

Hardly a current example, but 'Fat Boy Slim' did this re-mixing mularkey a lot (actually he was the bass player in The Housemartins, but that's beside the point) and was very successful - still is for all I know - but he never pretended he was doing anything but mixing the samples.

'Weapon of Choice' with Christopher Walken dancing..cool...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZbckwYY9r4



 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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#33
chuckebaby
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Re:its just a theory 2013/02/02 19:25:15 (permalink)
spacey


chuckebaby


spacey  
 
Unlike Chuck I spent my time learning for me.     
    
    
    
 
Chuckybaby
"@rain..good point,couldnt agree with you more.
it has been fun every part of the way.
i mostly play for me,which is like a theorpy in itself." 
  
  
  
 
this is a little confusing to me spacey ?
did you even read any of my posts ? 

Now that you've removed the insulting, childish rubbish I'll answer you.
It is also out of context now but it is of no matter.
 
I did read every word Charlie. I know exactly where you are coming
from.
I believe you are not understanding me so I'll explain, best I can.
 
My statement is when one has been focusing on their own self improvement
and talents they simply weigh out what is right or wrong for them to incorporate into
their art.
They aren't insulted by what others have to say or do with music when they have confidence
within.
My position and what I was trying to relate to, for you, is much like a martial artist. We know
that they are trained to defend themselves. They avoid the confrontations with their known
abilities. They have the inner confidence to know that there is no reason to do or say anything
until they are truly in danger. 
 
I too have spent years as a student of the guitar. I don't care what others think. You do. I don't care
if another thinks I'm a guitarist or not...a musician or not. What matters is what I think.
 
You were insulted by a person that you don't consider to be what you define as a "musician".
I see that as a weakness of yours. After all...what difference does
it matter what that dude thought or have to say? Was it going to make you a better musician?
Was it going to dimenish your talent in some way?
What difference does it make Charlie to you being a musician or producer?
 
I'm finished with this Charlie because I'm not into name calling, insulting or being insulted.
It's obviously a very touchy subject and I am not one that can resolve all the issues or care to
attempt to.
 
I do apologize for the misunderstanding. It was intended to possibly show you a different view
in a positive way. It didn't....so excuse me while I get me hat.
 
 
 
 
 
thank you for a very honest and sincre answer   :)    
 
i was insulted but not by you.
it was a video i watched of a person calling themself a musician,when infact they were closer to what i would call a producer.
he didnt write nor play any of his own instruments,just dragged and dropped loops on to a timeline.
 
sorry if i offended anyone by this thread.
 
and by all means i hope posting this thread again doesnt regenerate any ill will between us.
i just never got back to this thread and felt it was neccessary to show some respect by replying. 
post edited by chuckebaby - 2013/02/02 19:29:56

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#34
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