WDI
Max Output Level: -54.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2069
- Joined: 2007/08/28 02:31:11
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/01 20:56:24
(permalink)
If Cakewalk were serious they would offer a "Lifetime and Beyond" deal.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
|
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13146
- Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/01 21:35:31
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2017/08/02 00:27:51
WDI
If Cakewalk were serious they would offer a "Lifetime and Beyond" deal.
As in "After Life" updates ?
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/01 22:28:37
(permalink)
chuckebaby
WDI
If Cakewalk were serious they would offer a "Lifetime and Beyond" deal.
As in "After Life" updates ?
I'd settle for heirloom license transfer (free of course).
|
Brian Walton
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 584
- Joined: 2014/10/24 22:20:18
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/01 23:37:37
(permalink)
Starise
I guess I'm saying that although I understand they have their reasons, I know people like to go with what works for the best value they can find. Plenty of other things work at the level many home studio users are at. Do they work as well? Probably not in most cases. Is that a valid trade off? Maybe.
I'm mainly referring to the flagship program Platinum. I'm comparing it to the flagship of a few competitors. There are many other considerations as you know. It isn't just about price. But price is a BIG one.
The flagship is $400 right now. This basically includes current version and the next version (in the typical DAW model). There isn't another DAW on the market with the features that Sonar has on the Windows platform that includes the feature set and "add ons" that Sonar does at that price point. (Addictive Drums 3 Sets + MIDI Packs, Melodyne Essentials, Drum Replacer Software, Vocal Align plugin, Top Shelf Mastering Suite (LP EQ, Comp, Limiter), and a plethora of other effects plugins and instruments. Ableton, Fruity Loops, ProTools, Cubase, are all significantly more than that. Sutdio One, BitWig, Reason are all in the price ball park, but are realistically not as full featured in terms of content/function over all. Which DAW do you think is really on the level of what comes with the Platinum packages that costs significantly less? Logic is the only one I think someone can make the case for, and it used to cost $999, and is also limited to the MAC platform. For those that can't afford the flagship, they have versions that are very feature rich for a price that just about anyone can afford if they make a few life sacrifices.
|
tenfoot
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2186
- Joined: 2015/01/22 18:12:07
- Location: Qld, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/02 00:35:30
(permalink)
chuckebaby
WDI
If Cakewalk were serious they would offer a "Lifetime and Beyond" deal.
As in "After Life" updates ?
Haha. You may be onto something! Perhaps there really is a final reckoning. Those that have been good DAW users go to DAW heaven to recieve never ending perfectly bug free platinum updates. Those that have been bad are condemned to eternal punishment and given a copy of Sonar x1a:)
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
|
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13146
- Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
- Status: offline
|
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7563
- Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/02 15:57:32
(permalink)
Brian Walton
Starise
I guess I'm saying that although I understand they have their reasons, I know people like to go with what works for the best value they can find. Plenty of other things work at the level many home studio users are at. Do they work as well? Probably not in most cases. Is that a valid trade off? Maybe.
I'm mainly referring to the flagship program Platinum. I'm comparing it to the flagship of a few competitors. There are many other considerations as you know. It isn't just about price. But price is a BIG one.
The flagship is $400 right now. This basically includes current version and the next version (in the typical DAW model). There isn't another DAW on the market with the features that Sonar has on the Windows platform that includes the feature set and "add ons" that Sonar does at that price point. (Addictive Drums 3 Sets + MIDI Packs, Melodyne Essentials, Drum Replacer Software, Vocal Align plugin, Top Shelf Mastering Suite (LP EQ, Comp, Limiter), and a plethora of other effects plugins and instruments.
Ableton, Fruity Loops, ProTools, Cubase, are all significantly more than that. Sutdio One, BitWig, Reason are all in the price ball park, but are realistically not as full featured in terms of content/function over all.
Which DAW do you think is really on the level of what comes with the Platinum packages that costs significantly less? Logic is the only one I think someone can make the case for, and it used to cost $999, and is also limited to the MAC platform.
For those that can't afford the flagship, they have versions that are very feature rich for a price that just about anyone can afford if they make a few life sacrifices.
I like Dave's idea of having a lifetime or greatly reduced price for those who have been loyal over a period of time. Probably the closest competition is Presonus Studio One 3. I wasn't going to mention competitors by name, but since you've asked for specifics. For 399.00 you get pretty much everything Sonar has and then some. I don't believe it has Addictive drums, but it has a few things Sonar doesn't have. Unlike Sonar, they don't require you to buy into a yearly plan although they do have priced updates periodically just like the others. In between major software revisions the minor updates are free, or you could buy Reaper and add all of those things and still be ahead. They don't include the full version of Melodyne, neither does Studio One. Vocal align and Drum Replacer are very usable, but not as full featured as the higher end dedicated programs that do similar things. IOW for a pro producer they might not cover all the bases. I mostly use Sonar because I simply like the workflow and how it all works. I'm not convinced the current pricing is really head and shoulders above a few of the others all things considered. I guess it all depends on what you intend to do with it and where you see the value....and I thought the flagship price was 499.00.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/02 16:21:17
(permalink)
Starise
Probably the closest competition is Presonus Studio One 3. I wasn't going to mention competitors by name, but since you've asked for specifics. For 399.00 you get pretty much everything Sonar has and then some. I think SOP is a fine program and if SONAR didn't exist, it's what I would use in the studio (I do use SOP for album assembly). But there are many features Platinum has that Studio One does not, like plug-in load balancing, Pen and Dial input device support, vocal alignment, speed comping, Drum Replacer, Matrix View, the ability to create and edit stretchable files that respond to key and tempo changes, theme editor...IIRC SOP doesn't have a Step Sequencer and I'm not sure if it does surround. When considering what SONAR does or doesn't have, it's equally important to consider what other DAWs do or don't have. Unlike Sonar, they don't require you to buy into a yearly plan although they do have priced updates periodically just like the others. You are not required to buy yearly updates for SONAR or periodic updates for SOP. Either one will continue to work in whatever state you have it, unlike programs that "die" if you don't pay for updates. I guess it all depends on what you intend to do with it and where you see the value....and I thought the flagship price was 499.00. That's the MSRP and like most products, it's discounted periodically from the MSRP. Like you, I use SONAR because I like the workflow and how it all works but IMHO the current pricing of $399 is both realistic and competitive with other products.
|
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7563
- Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/02 16:50:02
(permalink)
I agree Craig. 399.00 is competitive. This appears to be a temporary price though. In order to truly be competitive 399.00 all the time is probably better from a buyer perspective. I would be happy with that.
Maybe this is the price for a current user compared to a new user? Temporary sale?
I'm mixing a project right now and I've jumped back and forth between the two. A good argument to have both. My last album was rendered in Studio One. Cake just doesn't have those types of tools yet.
I'm impressed with the deep hardware integration and latency improvements in SO.
I'm in Sonar most of the time because it works and gets things done much faster for me. You need a magnifier to use SO. If I can find the time to learn slip editing I might stop using the arranger in SO.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/02 18:11:14
(permalink)
SOP has a standard crossgrade in place for any X2 Producer or better user for $299, $50 extra will get Notion 6 - Christmas saw a blanket $199 sale for everyone. The features between the two programs have some substantial differences, although few compare feature sets objectively. The only feature I miss thus far is simple track template assignments, but some of SOP's features are ones I truly feel SONAR will never possess. I have never felt like a beta tester with SOP, and cannot seem to crash SOP either (I have actually tried to crash it a few times). A kid posted a video trying to crash SOP 3.5 with 164 plugins and 140 sends on an i5 laptop which was interesting to me (can skip the part where he counts all 164, but he actually counted them for a few minutes) - the experiment was to track vocals with all of that stuff running. Rumor from SOPs release notes is that a good number of feature requests are from folks crossgrading from other DAWs - the "do this and I will switch" idea. Rather clever in that it keeps them up to speed on the features the competition has that are actually used fequently. Conversely, in SONAR even standing feature requests for years (and some over a decade) have gone unanswered from customers who have already paid (what a wild difference in mentalities) - the "Forget about that... try this, you will like it better!" mentality. To add further insult to injury, a local mechanic's daughter showed me this video by her fiance's band and a local photographer (I am truly in the boonies, so even though this genre has little interest to me, the quality of the video/music production impressed me). The first thing I asked out of curiosity... "Which DAW does he use?" She went off to ask and came back a few days with "Reaper." Made me chuckle... "Oh yeah, the one with the fully functional, no time-limit trial."
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
lfm
Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2216
- Joined: 2005/01/24 05:35:33
- Location: Sweden
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/02 18:32:53
(permalink)
Isn't the effect a bit like when Gibson had a sale on Les Paul Faded or whatever it was - then short after that market is saturated, and not good idea to try and sell your LP.
Same with lifetime updates - now everybody that thought about Sonar just about, got it when lifetime updates deal were on.
It's pretty much campaigns that rules now, especially this time of year.
All long time professionals had Waves v9 by 2013, then us came along that thought it was attractive with Gold bundle for $350, then next year they start covering those at $300 margin, then $250 and then $199 as I think it was recently.
So they probably got most out of every group of people at various price points. That is probably maximizing the demand that is out there.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/02 22:59:11
(permalink)
Re DAW comparisons, the "my DAW can beat your DAW" drama gets really boring. When it comes to feature sets, people should decide what their priorities are, research what's available, find what aligns best with their priorities because nothing will align perfectly, and get on with making music.
I've done dozens of seminars with SONAR using all kinds of different projects, including ones with well over a hundred tracks, video, etc. I don't recall ever having a freeze, crash, or need to reboot - and this is with a laptop, in public, without a net. And to be fair, I've done a lesser number of seminars with Studio One and Ableton Live, and they haven't crashed either. Draw your own conclusions as to why I don't have problems - I think it's maintaining a proper computer environment. Very few programs or operating systems crash by themselves; it's the interactions among pieces of software that cause issues.
|
Brian Walton
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 584
- Joined: 2014/10/24 22:20:18
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/02 23:44:10
(permalink)
Starise
Brian Walton
Starise
I guess I'm saying that although I understand they have their reasons, I know people like to go with what works for the best value they can find. Plenty of other things work at the level many home studio users are at. Do they work as well? Probably not in most cases. Is that a valid trade off? Maybe.
I'm mainly referring to the flagship program Platinum. I'm comparing it to the flagship of a few competitors. There are many other considerations as you know. It isn't just about price. But price is a BIG one.
The flagship is $400 right now. This basically includes current version and the next version (in the typical DAW model). There isn't another DAW on the market with the features that Sonar has on the Windows platform that includes the feature set and "add ons" that Sonar does at that price point. (Addictive Drums 3 Sets + MIDI Packs, Melodyne Essentials, Drum Replacer Software, Vocal Align plugin, Top Shelf Mastering Suite (LP EQ, Comp, Limiter), and a plethora of other effects plugins and instruments.
Ableton, Fruity Loops, ProTools, Cubase, are all significantly more than that. Sutdio One, BitWig, Reason are all in the price ball park, but are realistically not as full featured in terms of content/function over all.
Which DAW do you think is really on the level of what comes with the Platinum packages that costs significantly less? Logic is the only one I think someone can make the case for, and it used to cost $999, and is also limited to the MAC platform.
For those that can't afford the flagship, they have versions that are very feature rich for a price that just about anyone can afford if they make a few life sacrifices.
I like Dave's idea of having a lifetime or greatly reduced price for those who have been loyal over a period of time.
Probably the closest competition is Presonus Studio One 3. I wasn't going to mention competitors by name, but since you've asked for specifics. For 399.00 you get pretty much everything Sonar has and then some. I don't believe it has Addictive drums, but it has a few things Sonar doesn't have. Unlike Sonar, they don't require you to buy into a yearly plan although they do have priced updates periodically just like the others. In between major software revisions the minor updates are free, or you could buy Reaper and add all of those things and still be ahead.
They don't include the full version of Melodyne, neither does Studio One. Vocal align and Drum Replacer are very usable, but not as full featured as the higher end dedicated programs that do similar things. IOW for a pro producer they might not cover all the bases.
I mostly use Sonar because I simply like the workflow and how it all works. I'm not convinced the current pricing is really head and shoulders above a few of the others all things considered. I guess it all depends on what you intend to do with it and where you see the value....and I thought the flagship price was 499.00.
Currenty they are the same price. AD is a minimum of $150 (assuming you compare to the Farifax 1+2 and blackvelvet package) Sonar's offer to let you choose is really much more valuable than that unless those happen to be the 3 kits you want. Studio One is a fine product, but I wouldn't discredit Vocal Align and Drum Replacer, which Pros absolutely can use. "Better" versions can cost just as much as Studio One does by itself. Not to mention such other pro 3rd party offerings such as Overloud's 2 Rematrix and B-Reverb and AAS Lounge Lizard, Ultra Analog, Strum Session 2, etc. It doesn't have to be head an shoulders above others, but it is one of the most full featured for the price, so why are you arguing otherwise when you have provided zero evidence otherwise? I don't see that Studio One offers much that Sonar doesn't other than a true Sampler. The list of instruments and effects that Sonar includes is a longer than Studio One's offering.
|
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7563
- Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 00:58:21
(permalink)
I'm not sure if you've used Studio One 3 Professional.It has a lot more than you might think. It might not have A and B but it has C and D.
All the evidence you need is a demo or a full feature list. There are substitutes for things like Lounge Lizard and ultra analog.
It all really depends on what you use the program for. This might sway a person one way or the other. As I see it,
Sonar Platinum IS full featured. I never argued that point. My focus was mainly on the price which came in response to those who missed out on the lifetime updates. If these people are questioning whether they should stay with Sonar then it needs to be in the same ball park as a few of the others concerning price if possible IMO. 399.00 is competitive and fair. This is only a temporary price. 499.00 OTOH is more than many of the others. Whether or not this higher price can be justified is up to the user. Some people might use AD2 and all the other add on's and this might justify it for them. For those who might not use all of that it might not be justified. I'm not discrediting Vocalign and Drum Replacer. I simply made the point that there are more full featured versions of those programs elsewhere. For the producer who uses drum replacer all the time, they might want something with more features, just sayin'.
There are a handful of features in SO that aren't in Platinum.I don't see SO as this program without anything in it. There are tons of extras there too.
The only reason I made comparisons was because this is what anyone else will do when they look to continue or change software. Price is a BIG factor. The lifetime updates expired a long time ago. No point in looking back.
I don't think making comparisons is boring personally if it helps us to determine what we have and how it can be used, or if another tool might do what we need better. Simple as that. Features and price.
If you can afford it buy a few daws. Then you're covered. If you only have one , then the choice is more important.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
|
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7563
- Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 01:08:56
(permalink)
mettelus
SOP has a standard crossgrade in place for any X2 Producer or better user for $299, $50 extra will get Notion 6 - Christmas saw a blanket $199 sale for everyone. The features between the two programs have some substantial differences, although few compare feature sets objectively. The only feature I miss thus far is simple track template assignments, but some of SOP's features are ones I truly feel SONAR will never possess. I have never felt like a beta tester with SOP, and cannot seem to crash SOP either (I have actually tried to crash it a few times). A kid posted a video trying to crash SOP 3.5 with 164 plugins and 140 sends on an i5 laptop which was interesting to me (can skip the part where he counts all 164, but he actually counted them for a few minutes) - the experiment was to track vocals with all of that stuff running.
Rumor from SOPs release notes is that a good number of feature requests are from folks crossgrading from other DAWs - the "do this and I will switch" idea. Rather clever in that it keeps them up to speed on the features the competition has that are actually used fequently. Conversely, in SONAR even standing feature requests for years (and some over a decade) have gone unanswered from customers who have already paid (what a wild difference in mentalities) - the "Forget about that... try this, you will like it better!" mentality.
To add further insult to injury, a local mechanic's daughter showed me this video by her fiance's band and a local photographer (I am truly in the boonies, so even though this genre has little interest to me, the quality of the video/music production impressed me). The first thing I asked out of curiosity... "Which DAW does he use?" She went off to ask and came back a few days with "Reaper." Made me chuckle... "Oh yeah, the one with the fully functional, no time-limit trial."
And this was the point I was trying to make. The others are at 399.00 typically and when they have a sale it might be 299.00 Sonar Platinum is at 499.00 typically and so 399.00 is a sale. It has a lot more than some of the others in terms of instruments and tools. It also lacks some of the things SO has. Standing feature requests are something I have heard about. I see that as the kind of thing that can't be avoided. There will always be more requests than there are tech to fix them. Can you be more specific? Apparently the things that aren't working I don't use much, because I haven't run into much of that at all. If a user NEEDS a certain thing to work and it doesn't work. If they can't get help, then they have no choice but to go somewhere else. I'm sure it probably happens at Presonus too.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
|
Brian Walton
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 584
- Joined: 2014/10/24 22:20:18
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 02:27:04
(permalink)
Starise
I'm not sure if you've used Studio One 3 Professional.It has a lot more than you might think. It might not have A and B but it has C and D.
All the evidence you need is a demo or a full feature list. There are substitutes for things like Lounge Lizard and ultra analog.
It all really depends on what you use the program for. This might sway a person one way or the other. As I see it,
Sonar Platinum IS full featured. I never argued that point. My focus was mainly on the price which came in response to those who missed out on the lifetime updates. If these people are questioning whether they should stay with Sonar then it needs to be in the same ball park as a few of the others concerning price if possible IMO. 399.00 is competitive and fair. This is only a temporary price. 499.00 OTOH is more than many of the others. Whether or not this higher price can be justified is up to the user. Some people might use AD2 and all the other add on's and this might justify it for them. For those who might not use all of that it might not be justified. I'm not discrediting Vocalign and Drum Replacer. I simply made the point that there are more full featured versions of those programs elsewhere. For the producer who uses drum replacer all the time, they might want something with more features, just sayin'.
There are a handful of features in SO that aren't in Platinum.I don't see SO as this program without anything in it. There are tons of extras there too.
The only reason I made comparisons was because this is what anyone else will do when they look to continue or change software. Price is a BIG factor. The lifetime updates expired a long time ago. No point in looking back.
I don't think making comparisons is boring personally if it helps us to determine what we have and how it can be used, or if another tool might do what we need better. Simple as that. Features and price.
If you can afford it buy a few daws. Then you're covered. If you only have one , then the choice is more important.
If your argument is price of staying with Sonar, then the upgrade price with staying with Sonar is less than switching to another DAW to get the same set of tools. It isn't about affording more DAWs if one can do what you need it to. It is a waste of time and energy to learn an "extra" DAW. The DAW itself is a small purchase for any studio owner, the cables in my main guitar rig cost between $300-400 (as some perspective). Most of the Pros I've worked with learn one single DAW as best as they can, so they can maximize billable hours. Any additional DAW learning is typically for the hobby of it because they like the technology or because they haven't reached the point of success where they can dictate to clients and not the other way around.
|
Brian Walton
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 584
- Joined: 2014/10/24 22:20:18
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 14:12:12
(permalink)
Starise
If these people are questioning whether they should stay with Sonar then it needs to be in the same ball park as a few of the others concerning price if possible IMO. 399.00 is competitive and fair.
The argument doesn't carry as much weight for current users, since the upgrade price is less than that.
|
michael japan
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5252
- Joined: 2004/01/29 03:01:03
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 15:05:15
(permalink)
I have been a Cakewalk user since the late 1980's. I purchased a whole year of updates in 2016 which ran out at the end of the year. I stopped going to the Forum for a long time and because I live in Japan (for 30 years) for some reason received email notifications in Japanese which I opted out of.
I missed the window.
It hurt.
Hopefully yours,
Michael
Windows 10/64 bit/i7-6560U/SSD/16GB RAM/Cakelab/Sonar Platinum/Pro Tools/Studio 1/Studio 192/DP88/MOTU AVB/Grace M101/AKG Various/Blue Woodpecker/SM81x2/Yamaha C1L Grand Piano/CLP545/MOX88/MOTIF XS Rack Rack/MX61/Korg CX3/Karma/Scarbee EP88s/ Ivory/Ravenscroft Piano/JBL4410/NS10m/Auratones/Omnisphere/Play Composers Selection/Waves/Komplete Kontrol
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 15:34:10
(permalink)
Starise
Standing feature requests are something I have heard about. I see that as the kind of thing that can't be avoided. There will always be more requests than there are tech to fix them. Can you be more specific? Apparently the things that aren't working I don't use much, because I haven't run into much of that at all. If a user NEEDS a certain thing to work and it doesn't work. If they can't get help, then they have no choice but to go somewhere else. I'm sure it probably happens at Presonus too.
This is a can of worms of sorts, since each person has different wants, needs, and workflows. For folks who use a DAW as a glorified tape machine (straightforward production), it is significantly different than those using it for post-production, or those using it as a composition/arrangement tool. The two items which come to mind most for me (recently) are: 1. The arrange/scratch pad concept (very longstanding feature request (FR), but the timing of that FR may very well be linked to SOP introduction), where a composer can willy-nilly grab, drag, drop song sections around without concern for their internal content or a project exploding. Ripple Editting in SONAR has finally taken a leap to making this happen, but even the arranger track is a massive time saver for composition. 2. The plethora of drop out threads I see here recently. Drop outs is a hazy one, since drivers, setup, and understanding how the computer is thinking and processes is a large part. However, being able to track into a "damn near done" mix often requires (anyone doing this cannot dodge these bullets forever...) bypassing global FX, resetting audio interface buffers, and/or bouncing everything down and recording into a new project (can also freeze/archive, but that can be messy too). Drilling into preferences, and knowing the above is a massive hassle for someone who just a cool idea, inserted a track, and is on the verge of arming/recording... then reality strikes. This is a workflow issue that would affect almost everyone, and although the feedback for this was "too hard to do" from a couple years back, SOP 3.5 just did it. One click, and you can go from massive post-production mix to "tracking mode." These also distract from the OPs main point, which was more the upgrade/renewal pricing. The point I was more trying to make was what SONAR users have made as feature requests, versus what has transpired. I actually spent quite a bit of time reviewing that feature request forum by vote count when my initial membership expired. When the lifetime updates came around, that forum had been moved, but some of the most voted and useful features were still on it. [Although this can get into many heated discussions as to "why," the issue is more that it has happened.] Where that does lead back to the OPs discussion is the associated value, i.e. "what is one getting for the money." Again, many threads regarding this, and it will always boil down to value to the customer.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7563
- Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 16:02:30
(permalink)
Brian Walton
Starise
I'm not sure if you've used Studio One 3 Professional.It has a lot more than you might think. It might not have A and B but it has C and D.
All the evidence you need is a demo or a full feature list. There are substitutes for things like Lounge Lizard and ultra analog.
It all really depends on what you use the program for. This might sway a person one way or the other. As I see it,
Sonar Platinum IS full featured. I never argued that point. My focus was mainly on the price which came in response to those who missed out on the lifetime updates. If these people are questioning whether they should stay with Sonar then it needs to be in the same ball park as a few of the others concerning price if possible IMO. 399.00 is competitive and fair. This is only a temporary price. 499.00 OTOH is more than many of the others. Whether or not this higher price can be justified is up to the user. Some people might use AD2 and all the other add on's and this might justify it for them. For those who might not use all of that it might not be justified. I'm not discrediting Vocalign and Drum Replacer. I simply made the point that there are more full featured versions of those programs elsewhere. For the producer who uses drum replacer all the time, they might want something with more features, just sayin'.
There are a handful of features in SO that aren't in Platinum.I don't see SO as this program without anything in it. There are tons of extras there too.
The only reason I made comparisons was because this is what anyone else will do when they look to continue or change software. Price is a BIG factor. The lifetime updates expired a long time ago. No point in looking back.
I don't think making comparisons is boring personally if it helps us to determine what we have and how it can be used, or if another tool might do what we need better. Simple as that. Features and price.
If you can afford it buy a few daws. Then you're covered. If you only have one , then the choice is more important.
If your argument is price of staying with Sonar, then the upgrade price with staying with Sonar is less than switching to another DAW to get the same set of tools.
It isn't about affording more DAWs if one can do what you need it to. It is a waste of time and energy to learn an "extra" DAW. The DAW itself is a small purchase for any studio owner, the cables in my main guitar rig cost between $300-400 (as some perspective).
Most of the Pros I've worked with learn one single DAW as best as they can, so they can maximize billable hours. Any additional DAW learning is typically for the hobby of it because they like the technology or because they haven't reached the point of success where they can dictate to clients and not the other way around.
Brian, I can tell you like Sonar Platinum. So do I. I don't have an argument. I'm trying to make a point. We just see things a little differently. No DAW has exactly the "same set of tools" as you put it. The upgrade price is less for someone who already bought Sonar. The same can be said for those who purchase anything else. If you bought SO you will pay less for consecutive upgrades. On your second point, I agree. If you don't need another DAW, why buy one? Multiple DAWS are used in lot of studios. I know of a few that use at least three or more. The reason? They have different features or might have a way to do one thing easier than another.In that sense it isn't a "waste". It's an added value capability to the studio. Most Studios have a preference and might tend to use one most of the time. Some engineers are better at multitasking on multiple DAWS or prefer to go between DAWS. The one that does the most in the best, most efficient way the engineer likes to work usually wins as the main program. On your next point, A DAW isn't really a small purchase if you consider a "digital audio workstation" includes the interface, computer, hardware surface if used, monitor speakers and software. This can easily run into the thousands of dollars. Sure, we are talking about the software, but this is only a small part of a "DAW". The software wouldn't work without the rest of it. To most smaller studios, 400.00 is considerable. This isn't exactly play money for most small studios. 400.00 is usually a treat. I suspect Cakewalk charges the MSRP of 499.00 because they need to cover the fees for some of the add on software programs. Every time they sell a copy of Platinum, they need to pay those guys too. I could be mistaken about that, only a guess. Like you say, you get AD2 and a bunch of other stuff. My point is, the customer either sees value in that and is willing to fork over the extra 100.00 if Platinum isn't on sale, or they pay less for something else. IF possible 399.00 would look even better because the customer would look at everything and say, " wow I'm paying the same price as the others and I'm getting loads more in the deal." The way things are now, the customer looks at that higher price and might not look at the features. Instead, they look at the competition. Hopefully they will notice the features and then see the added value. IF Cake could keep a lower standard price closer to the others, value would easily outweigh the competitors. It would be similar to the car salesman you visit and tell him you really want to buy his car, but you seen another car down the street just like his and it's less.He counters with, " I'll give you the same model loaded for the same price as the car down the street that isn't loaded". Who can pass an offer like that up? Right now you CAN get it for 399.00. I wouldn't hesitate:)
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
|
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7563
- Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 16:51:29
(permalink)
mettelus
Starise
Standing feature requests are something I have heard about. I see that as the kind of thing that can't be avoided. There will always be more requests than there are tech to fix them. Can you be more specific? Apparently the things that aren't working I don't use much, because I haven't run into much of that at all. If a user NEEDS a certain thing to work and it doesn't work. If they can't get help, then they have no choice but to go somewhere else. I'm sure it probably happens at Presonus too.
This is a can of worms of sorts, since each person has different wants, needs, and workflows. For folks who use a DAW as a glorified tape machine (straightforward production), it is significantly different than those using it for post-production, or those using it as a composition/arrangement tool.
The two items which come to mind most for me (recently) are:
1. The arrange/scratch pad concept (very longstanding feature request (FR), but the timing of that FR may very well be linked to SOP introduction), where a composer can willy-nilly grab, drag, drop song sections around without concern for their internal content or a project exploding. Ripple Editting in SONAR has finally taken a leap to making this happen, but even the arranger track is a massive time saver for composition.
2. The plethora of drop out threads I see here recently. Drop outs is a hazy one, since drivers, setup, and understanding how the computer is thinking and processes is a large part. However, being able to track into a "damn near done" mix often requires (anyone doing this cannot dodge these bullets forever...) bypassing global FX, resetting audio interface buffers, and/or bouncing everything down and recording into a new project (can also freeze/archive, but that can be messy too). Drilling into preferences, and knowing the above is a massive hassle for someone who just a cool idea, inserted a track, and is on the verge of arming/recording... then reality strikes. This is a workflow issue that would affect almost everyone, and although the feedback for this was "too hard to do" from a couple years back, SOP 3.5 just did it. One click, and you can go from massive post-production mix to "tracking mode."
These also distract from the OPs main point, which was more the upgrade/renewal pricing. The point I was more trying to make was what SONAR users have made as feature requests, versus what has transpired. I actually spent quite a bit of time reviewing that feature request forum by vote count when my initial membership expired. When the lifetime updates came around, that forum had been moved, but some of the most voted and useful features were still on it. [Although this can get into many heated discussions as to "why," the issue is more that it has happened.]
Where that does lead back to the OPs discussion is the associated value, i.e. "what is one getting for the money." Again, many threads regarding this, and it will always boil down to value to the customer.
I've just started getting into arranging, but this is a big one for me because it can save so much time if it can be done without a lot of trouble. I've never used Sonar as just a glorified tape machine. I use a lot of automation and soft synths. I have come across a few small bugs. Trying to link tracks and automate them all at once can sometimes lock Platinum up. That bug has been reported.It only happens on loaded mixes while other things are working hard. Unfortunately , I looked at a few videos on ripple editing and tried it a bit, I had already started using the arranger in SO and liked it. I didn't immediately pick up all the concepts of how ripple editing works. I start to get impatient when I have a mix waiting to be completed. I tend to go toward the SO arranger because I already know it now.I think Ripple editing will be ok once I get into it. It will be tough to compete with the arranger in SO. I'll come back to this after I have used ripple editing. No matter what it is it should be easy for dummies to use lol. Lots of people buying the software for the first time. On the dropouts in Platinum- I would like to see a tighter integration with hardware in Platinum like you have in SO. This is why I think you see less drop outs in SO.The user buys a Presonus interface and SO sees it immediately and can tune it. I don't believe Platinum is any worse with regard to drop outs. Much of those kinds of problems seem to be driver, interface, buffer and even computer problems. If Cake plans to stay under Gibson with Tascam. It would only make sense to offer tightly integrated hardware. This avoids a lot of problems. Typically most of the more common interfaces are working great from all outward indications. Focusrite, RME, Motu my older Presonus works great in Platinum. Mettilus, how big are your projects? I'm wondering if in some cases, the preferences aren't really set correctly. I have had to disable FX on some larger projects temporarily. I suspect this was an issue involving a plug in. I don't see what you refer to as a "plethora" of lock ups. You kight be referring to the X3 days? there were a few more bugs then. Things are much smoother now.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/03 17:22:36
(permalink)
mettelus
2. The plethora of drop out threads I see here recently. Drop outs is a hazy one, since drivers, setup, and understanding how the computer is thinking and processes is a large part. However, being able to track into a "damn near done" mix often requires (anyone doing this cannot dodge these bullets forever...) bypassing global FX, resetting audio interface buffers, and/or bouncing everything down and recording into a new project (can also freeze/archive, but that can be messy too). Drilling into preferences, and knowing the above is a massive hassle for someone who just a cool idea, inserted a track, and is on the verge of arming/recording... then reality strikes. This is a workflow issue that would affect almost everyone, and although the feedback for this was "too hard to do" from a couple years back, SOP 3.5 just did it. One click, and you can go from massive post-production mix to "tracking mode." Well...I don't get dropouts, but when I did a year or so ago, I followed the advice in the Toast notification and that solved it. No matter how much you go into Preferences, that can take you only so far when the problem is in the computer setup. This also happens on a Mac. Search on "Presonus Studio One Dropouts" and you'll have plenty of reading material. You'll also have plenty of reading material if you search on "Pro Tools Dropouts" or "Ableton Live dropouts." But I don't blame the programs, I think it has more to do with people trying to get computer "sports car" performance out of the computer equivalent of a Ford Focus. Neither Windows nor OS X were optimized for real-time data streaming. One way to compensate for that is with really good hardware and lots of memory, which costs money. Too bad the Amiga didn't take over the world 
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/04 08:05:28
(permalink)
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/04 11:09:03
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Bristol_Jonesey 2017/08/04 12:39:24
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7563
- Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/04 12:22:30
(permalink)
Anderton
mettelus
2. The plethora of drop out threads I see here recently. Drop outs is a hazy one, since drivers, setup, and understanding how the computer is thinking and processes is a large part. However, being able to track into a "damn near done" mix often requires (anyone doing this cannot dodge these bullets forever...) bypassing global FX, resetting audio interface buffers, and/or bouncing everything down and recording into a new project (can also freeze/archive, but that can be messy too). Drilling into preferences, and knowing the above is a massive hassle for someone who just a cool idea, inserted a track, and is on the verge of arming/recording... then reality strikes. This is a workflow issue that would affect almost everyone, and although the feedback for this was "too hard to do" from a couple years back, SOP 3.5 just did it. One click, and you can go from massive post-production mix to "tracking mode."
Well...I don't get dropouts, but when I did a year or so ago, I followed the advice in the Toast notification and that solved it. No matter how much you go into Preferences, that can take you only so far when the problem is in the computer setup. This also happens on a Mac.
Search on "Presonus Studio One Dropouts" and you'll have plenty of reading material. You'll also have plenty of reading material if you search on "Pro Tools Dropouts" or "Ableton Live dropouts." But I don't blame the programs, I think it has more to do with people trying to get computer "sports car" performance out of the computer equivalent of a Ford Focus.
Neither Windows nor OS X were optimized for real-time data streaming. One way to compensate for that is with really good hardware and lots of memory, which costs money. Too bad the Amiga didn't take over the world
Drop outs were a big one awhile back. A small handful of members seemed to constantly be having this issue. I wanted to feel their pain, but no matter how hard I tried I couldn't replicate the issues. I had different hardware and I suspect that was some of it was hardware related. I wonder if Mettilus is using Platinum now. Lots of bugs have been reported and fixed since then. Some folks simply couldn't bring themselves to like the new workflow since they were so accustomed to Pro.9 You could have given them the moon and stars and they would have left. These were the people who mostly used Sonar as a tape machine, were used to that method and couldn't or wouldn't change. It was a bold step by Cakewalk to go into the new direction. I'm glad they did. Buying little known interfaces and using limited computers is always asking for trouble. I'm not referring to the crowd that left, since a few of those guys had fairly nice setups. A few probably had compromised setups. You can win some of the people some of the time, never all the people all the time. Let em' go. I hope they find what they want. The only problem is some of them take bad info about Cakewalk using older versions. We can't stop that either. Fortunately this is a small minority of users and most of us have no issues at all or maybe an occasional issue which is expected with any software program. This thread is pretty much a dead end anyhow since there are no longer lifetime updates, and probably won't be. My whole reason for coming on board was just to say, What other options are there? If I'm either a Platinum user deciding to upgrade again or a new user reading this thread. I don't think any of the competition is doing any of this at the moment- - Offering a monthly pay plan -Adding a very high percentage of progressive major enhancements above and beyond routine bug fixes throughout the pay cycles as compared to the others. -Maintaining some of the best support offered anywhere in the forum. I challenge you to go to any of the others and find even half of the support we have here.Most questions are answered fairly fast by members here. -Offering a price at 100.00 off MSRP putting a heavy program into your hands at the same price as many close competitors who in most cases offer much less for that price. A few charge more than Cakes MSRP price. Once you gain entry, there are periodic sales on upgrades and discounted prices from partner software vendors. And my other point was the higher MSRP. I think this is a potential turnoff to a few buyers , This is my opinion. You don't have to agree.  There are sales. There's one going on right now. 499.00 slashed to 399.00. I don't know when this one will end or when another will begin.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
|
brconflict
Max Output Level: -56.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1891
- Joined: 2012/10/05 21:28:30
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/04 16:43:22
(permalink)
I certainly recommend looking at the lesser levels of the product, as well. Sonar Professional is quite powerful, still, and for many, it's still more than enough. If I were starting out with Sonar, that would be the one I'd grab first.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/04 16:59:23
(permalink)
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/04 17:03:08
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Starise 2017/08/05 01:00:21
Starise
And my other point was the higher MSRP. I think this is a potential turnoff to a few buyers , This is my opinion. You don't have to agree.
Actually I do agree, and hope the $399 sale becomes the rule rather than the exception. Don't get me wrong - I think Platinum is worth $499, but that's because I've used it long enough to take advantage of all the nooks and crannies that make it worth that much to me. Those features will not be obvious to someone who hasn't used it. I do think brconflict's advice about Professional is relevant, too. It's very cost-effective.
|
Joe_A
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 458
- Joined: 2008/07/06 23:16:14
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/04 17:03:36
(permalink)
I'm a satisfied lifetime update. I almost missed it, taking a mixing hiatus. I've paid a lot in the last 15 yrs so I think it was a great marketing tool as well as starting the CCC.
Also getting their great product out there.
CCC works well for me on the new laptop.
I was saving to get a larger and USB interface which I did when I saw the offer.
I don't want to tempt the bear..... But I've never had a CCC issue or operational error.
jambrose@cfl.rr.com Sonar Plat. Lifetime. Started in Sonar 4, each through 8.5.3PE. Scarlett 18i202nd gen., Edirol FA-101, M-Audio Firewire 410, AMD Phenom II 1045T six core processor, 8GB DDR3, AMD Radeon HD 6450, dual displays, 1.5 TB SATA HD, USB 2, Firewire 1394A, 1394B, 18/22 mixer, EV Q-66, Yamaha HS50M monitors, few guitars, Fender Cybertwin SE, Fender Cyber foot controller, Boss RC20-XL, misc pedals, etc. Win Home Prem 64 bit.
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: lifetime updates
2017/08/05 02:52:30
(permalink)
Just to clarify the above; the only drop outs I have had in the past few years are always associated with adjusting interface buffers at the interface. This is expected, since SONAR is locked to it; so when it changes, the audio engine disengages. It is simple to re-engage the audio engine. The hurdle of recording a new track (such as a final lead vox track) in a complex project was really the point, not that I suffer drop outs personally.
My membership expired in 3/2016, and the final Manchester build (1/2016) is the Platinum version I run.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|