I have stompbox effects that I like to use(Empress SDVM, Strymon Mobius, Eventide H9). What is  the best way to recreate these sounds when tracking?
 
For the sake of argument, I want to explore micing my cabinet (as opposed to using an amp sim, such as: Guitar Rig, S-Gear, ABG etc...).
 
1) I could set up my rig how I like (with effects) and simply mic it. (cons: this would be in mono and would print the sound with the effects applied)
2) I could mic it with no effects then look at adding effects using plugins to try to get a similar sound. (cons: I don't have all the plugins to exactly mimic my stompboxes but this might be acceptable)
3) I could re-track while running through the hardware stompbox effects in stereo, which would maintain the original track (cons: additional latency???)
4) While tracking, run the mic through the stompboxes abd then into the soundcard. This would allow tracking in stereo but has the same con as option 1.
 
Are there other methods I am missing?
 
How do you normally do it?
 
Thanks

I think what you might want to consider is re-amping.  Not sure the ins and outs of how to accomplish it (I'll let others who have done it give you some instructions), but you basically record a direct signal from your guitar into Sonar and then play the track, sending it back out to your stomp boxes and amps.
 
See this techniques tip from Craig A. 

maximumpower
I have stompbox effects that I like to use(Empress SDVM, Strymon Mobius, Eventide H9). What is  the best way to recreate these sounds when tracking?
 
For the sake of argument, I want to explore micing my cabinet (as opposed to using an amp sim, such as: Guitar Rig, S-Gear, ABG etc...).
 
1) I could set up my rig how I like (with effects) and simply mic it. (cons: this would be in mono and would print the sound with the effects applied)
2) I could mic it with no effects then look at adding effects using plugins to try to get a similar sound. (cons: I don't have all the plugins to exactly mimic my stompboxes but this might be acceptable)
3) I could re-track while running through the hardware stompbox effects in stereo, which would maintain the original track (cons: additional latency???)
4) While tracking, run the mic through the stompboxes abd then into the soundcard. This would allow tracking in stereo but has the same con as option 1.
 
Are there other methods I am missing?
 
How do you normally do it?
 
Thanks

Hi max,
 
Good questions on this. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers or remedies that I'm aware of and I'll tell you why. I'll go down your list and give you my personal experience with this stuff.
 
1. Don't ever worry about stereo vs mono in recording a guitar sound. Allow me to set a few things straight for you that are important. First off, there is no such thing as a stereo guitar sound other than the effects that give you stereo imaging. Distortion is not a stereo effect. The only time you get true stereo is if you record the guitar two times in two independent passes. The parts must be played two times. Anything else is just a stereo image using effects. You're always better off recording two rhythm tracks, so don't count the mono aspect as a "con".
 
As far as your other con, yes, unfortunately your effects would print. The problem here is, it's going to be ery hard to reproduce those effects using plugins. I've tried to replicate some of my rack effects using plugs and on certain things, it's just not going to happen unless I:
 
a) print with the effect and keep doing it until I record with just the right amount
b) use Sonar's external insert ability and run the effect that way.
 
The external insert will allow you to run your effects in real time that way, BUT....this is not a good idea for some pedals. Pedals (as you probably know) sound the best when they are right in your signal path. Meaning, going right from guitar, into the pedals and then into the amp/source. Stuff like over drive, distortion, eq, wah and all non ambient effects sound great right into the amp.
 
Reverbs, delays, harmonizers (certain manufacturers) chorus, flanger, phase or special effects, all sound good going through an effects loop or, Sonar's external insert. They usually don't sound good going direct into your amp/source. So stuff like that would be ok for the external insert path in Sonar.
 
2. You can try mic'ing and then attempting to replicate your effects, but you probably won't fair too well unless you have a pretty wide array of plugs. I have quite an arsenal and nothing I have comes close to some of my effects. Nothing will replace the Eventide unless you buy the Eventide plugs. I don't even know if they are available for Windows. The last I checked, they were MAC only. Chorus, flange, phaser....stuff like that, you should have no problems copping those with the Sonitus plugs or even the old Cake FX suite. Some great stuff in there. If you don't have older versions of Sonar, you won't have the FX suite. I always liked those and still use them today from my older versions of Cakewalk/Sonar. But as you suspected, some of your effects just won't be reproduced the way you would hope. :(
 
3. I've never tried to do this so I don't know what the result would be. Again, don't sweat the stereo thing. You can literally record a mono track in Sonar, add plugins and it will automatically put the track in stereo due to the plugins. In older versions of Sonar, we had to click the stereo interleave button on the track to do this, but today with newer versions of Sonar, any effect that is built into Sonar that is put in the FX bin on a mono track, *should* be in stereo due to the plug. If it sounds mono, just click the the stereo interleave button on the track and you'll hear the difference. But remember, distortion is not a stereo effect and will never be in stereo no matter what you do to it.
 
Even if you set a track up for stereo and put two mic's on a cab, it will not print in stereo. You need two independent sound sources. If you had two cabs with a stereo chorus running with two amps, you'd be stereo imaging because the signal itself is the same. Just the chorus would be making the sound go into stereo imaging mode.
 
Now if you recorded one guitar track in mono and then recorded yourself playing that same guitar track again, panned one hard left, the other hard right, THEN you'd have true, real stereo. Try that if you never have....it obliterates stereo imaging for rhythm guitars. The human timing inconsistencies as well as playing the track two times is what brings this to life.
 
Now for lead guitars, I never double track them unless it's for effects purposes. Stereo imaging is perfect for lead guitar, vocals, and any single focal point instrument. We take the mono track, we put stereo effects on it, and the stereo imaging does the rest. This is my method.
 
4. It's something you can try, but I wouldn't even go there. I'd print the track with your effects the way you like them, and then print the track again so you have played the rhythm tracks two independent times. Pan hard left/right and see how it sounds. Then, assess if you recorded with too much effects. If so, back them down and repeat the recording process. It sucks at first to do it this way, but unless you can replicate those effects, there's no other way I can think of that will cure your problem.
 
I record with effects on my guitars all the time. I've been doing this 100 years, so I sort of have an idea as to what is too much and what is just right. See, here's the thing. Sometimes the effects we use literally help to make and create the guitar tone we have. There is nothing wrong with using effects destructively in this manner. BUT....if the effects are too dominant, it can of course go against you. This is why it's better to add them while mixing. But in your situation, you don't have that luxury nor do I with some of the stuff I use that just can't be reproduced. So just keep at it and record a few takes until you hear how the effects sound within the mix. You'll find that happy medium within 5 tries. :) Good luck man!
 
-Danny

Something to add in case I lost you on this part....I should have been more clear.
 
"You can literally record a mono track in Sonar, add plugins and it will automatically put the track in stereo due to the plugins."
 
In order for this to happen, you MUST use a reverb, chorus, delay, phase, flanger or some special effect. Nothing else will give you stereo imaging. Meaning, compression, eq, wah...those types of effects don't give you any stereo spread/imaging.
 
-Danny

Thank you for the responses!
 
I understand what you are saying. I think I need to just try it to get the effects how I like or just get as close as I can with plugins. 
 
It just nice to use the stompboxes because that is what I use when I practice and they affect how/what I play.
 
Thanks for your advice!

I am glad Danny chimed in because I was on my phone and your question is a complex one (plus cannot see signatures so wasn't sure which SONAR version you have).
 
Ultimately this has come down to ease of use for me, as I have gotten old enough to detest swimming in a pool of spaghetti (and children seem to gravitate to cables for some reason), so amp sims have won their place. Editing the clean audio track (however you choose to do this) is also significantly easier than a processed signal, especially in the future if you decide to change the sound of that track significantly. Another option to plan for this is a DI box, with one out running a clean signal to SONAR, while the other records the amped signal.
 
Another note to bear in mind is that Melodyne (even Editor) does not do well at all with a distorted input signal, as the amplified harmonics confuse it. If Melodyne may potentially be used, a clean input signal is the path that is pretty much required (a clean track is advised, even if an amped track is used initially).
 
There was a neat post a year ago about being able to get feedback using GR5, even at low volumes, and that does work. An interesting advantage of this strategy is that the clean channel is what is being recorded, but the ability to use the feedback to generate harmonics exists because of having the amp sim in the recording loop.

I wrote an article for the Cakewalk blog called Basics: Five Questions about Using Stompboxes with Sonar. The advice in the thread is great, but you might find it helpful as well.

Thank you for the article. If I record a "dry" guitar signal, I can still use my effects using that method.
 
I am guessing more and more people are using modeling software because of the ease of use but before that, were most people using DI boxes to split the raw guitar signal? I.E. one path going to the amp and effects and the other directly to the recording interface? If so, then you need to re-amp but you can re-amp whenever you want?

I would think a buffered splitter would be easiest,right off the guitar( you can use a tuners bypass output for testing). Just track like you would normally, micing / monitoring the amp. Splitter feed goes direct to a second track. Edit , re-amp or set-up a whole different sim / effects scenario with the clean guitar track.

If the DI box/splitter isn't buffered on the input side putting a buffer in front of it is a very good idea. Otherwise the DI might have too low an input impedance and load down the guitar pickups (= loss of volume and treble). Any pedal with a decent buffer will do the job (e.g. any Boss, including their tuners).

Pedals which react strongly to the guitar and its control settings,, such as the Fuzz Face or some Cry Babies, are pretty much impossible to recreate authentically and need to be on the guitar side of any buffer.

Digital amp and fx simulators also need careful gain staging to get anything like an amp tone and response out of them unless you want e.g. a low output Strat to drive the amp like an EMG active humbucker or vice versa.

Then pay at least as much attention to virtual microphones and their placement as you would the real thing.

Me, I just record my "real" gear and either commit to it at that point or re-do later if necessary.

It might be worth mentioning that the old Cakewalk effects are worth investigating despite their age and can make very convincing Small Stone or Electric Mistress replacements. The Pro Channel saturation plugin is very useful as well.