I do Sonar for fun but I'm semi retired and have lots of time for it and I'm determined to get good at it over time. 
I'm a Guitar/Singer/songwriter doing mostly audio now but looking towards midi as I learn. I also use a CAD program (Softplan) for my work (home design) which simply needs CPU power and a decent graphics card.

My desktop is dying as I write but I'm so confused about what to buy due to the rapid changes in IT.
Tho it's a couple of years old my Asus laptop is powerful enough to run my CAD 
(Intel Duo T660 CPU, 500GB HD, 4GB memory, win 7, Nvidia geforce G102M) 
and maybe I could get another one for Sonar alone?

If a desktop is better for whatever reason, can they be really quiet? Even with the good fans I can hear it in the mics. (same room) 

What ports would be wise to include? (I hear lots of good things about larger SSD's now)
My controller (BR800) with external sound card seems fine as an interface but does not have MIDI. I'll get a keyboard for that.
I guess the bottom line is:
Is there a good basic computer shopping check list available for sonar?

A desktop is better in that it's fully configurable, allowing you to add/replace hardware items pretty easily if you have a reasonable grasp of the basics. Laptops have to be shop modified and there's only so far you can go.

But laptops are extremely portable, which may or may not be a factor for you.

Some of the modern desktops are whisper quiet - you can record using a mic in the same room.

If you have the cash, I'd get a specialist DAW builder onboard and you can discuss with him exactly what you'll need.

I still don't understand why you just can get a $700 computer with an i5 or i7 in it and the other stuff usually included and use that.

I've got an 8 yr old PII, Dell 2400 that's running 7.03 just fine.  I put in the max 2gig or RAM, but that's about it.  Use a Layla 3G.

When X2 comes out, probably upgrade then, so I can go 64 bit, get stuff like Omnisphere,etc.

You've answered the question yourself.

The 2Gb RAM limitation (ok 3-4Gb if you've got the/3G switch in use) in 32 bit systems is exactly that - a limitation.

As systems become more powerful, so the software engineers make more & more demands of the hardware and as a consequence, in order to fully utilize a lot of the modern streaming libraries you need a machine that can & will cope. 

An off the shelf model may do the job (if you're lucky) and you're prepared to do a fair amount of work removing the bloat-ware and getting it up to scratch.

A desktop pc can be made quieter in various ways, for example, by using a quiet cpu cooler and large fans running slowly, by soundproofing the case, by using a high efficiency psu, by avoiding high powered graphics cards, by soft-mounting hard drives, and by using SSDs instead of HDDs. Refer to sites like silentpcreview for more info.

Even laptops can get noisy e.g. when their cooling fan(s) kicks in or when their hard drive(s) is working out, and can be more difficult to quiet than a desktop. 

You can add a USB MIDI interface easily and fairly inexpensively if you have a free USB port. 

Btw, the BR-800 actually does have MIDI, but only internally - which is how it can function as a DAW control surface over USB.

Bristol_Jonesey


You've answered the question yourself.

The 2Gb RAM limitation (ok 3-4Gb if you've got the/3G switch in use) in 32 bit systems is exactly that - a limitation.

As systems become more powerful, so the software engineers make more & more demands of the hardware and as a consequence, in order to fully utilize a lot of the modern streaming libraries you need a machine that can & will cope. 

An off the shelf model may do the job (if you're lucky) and you're prepared to do a fair amount of work removing the bloat-ware and getting it up to scratch.

I think you missed my point.  I bought a $350 computer from Dell, 8 years ago and it's running Sonar just fine.  I can run Toontrack SD and a couple of other soft synths without freezing and about 20 audio tracks, no problem. 
 
No I can't run Omnisphere.... probably... but my thoughts are, just get a new one for about $700 and should do the trick. Takes not much to get rid of the "bloatware"...  I mean, you just remove it, but honestly, I've got a bunch of other programs on my ancient Dell too.  I'm not really understanding tweaking computers so much nowadays.  Maybe back in the 90's you had to go the route of turning off screen savers and all that junk back then, but certainly not now.  I'd think a $1000 i7 Dell with 16 gigs of RAM would scream.
 
Admittedly, not a pro studio, so I'm not tweaking to the nth degree either.

I think you missed my point.  I bought a $350 computer from Dell, 8 years ago and it's running Sonar just fine.  I can run Toontrack SD and a couple of other soft synths without freezing and about 20 audio tracks, no problem.  

I do take your point, but back in 2007, I had a DAW built for me based on a Q6700 Quad core, Win XP32 & 2Gb of RAM.


Without freezing, I put together a project containing 75 audio tracks, at least 100 plugins, and many instances of live V-Vocal clips.


I think you'd be extremely lucky to get an off the shelf system to perform to this sort of level.

I've just seen a few systems in town and they all seem to have lots of power and ram.
Even the laptops have more than enough and are reasonably priced. 
Yes the fans are better now it seems tho the shop environs are noisy enough to mask it.
I am listening carefully about other limitations and custom builts.

They are not recommending the SSD's as primary HD's saying they are not reliable in the long term?

One more concern is the number of problems reported with 64 bit installs of Sonar X1 on win 7.
A few folks are saying the 32 bit on XP is more stable. (what I have)
Would you advise a 32 bit install on a 64 bit machine? (Not sure of the 64 bit advantage)

Also interesting about my BR and MIDI. 
I'm not understanding how I can use it for midi input without the midi ports?

Ok, I' came across an earlier topic you started in the Sonar X1 forum last year, which fills in a bit more background:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2462095


Now,  I will try to clarify (hopefully without getting too technical)...

M_Glenn_M
I've just seen a few systems in town and they all seem to have lots of power and ram.
Even the laptops have more than enough and are reasonably priced. 
Yes the fans are better now it seems tho the shop environs are noisy enough to mask it.
I am listening carefully about other limitations and custom builts.

Just because a PC is powerful enough to run Windows 7 and DAW software like Sonar does not necessarily mean it will perform well as a DAW.  There are settings in the BIOS which can affect this, but some PCs (especially many laptops) may not offer a user access to these settings. Also, Windows installs and runs a lot of things which are not essential to a DAW, and defaults to certain settings which can affect DAW performance if not disabled/adjusted.  

Latency can become an issue both with audio interfaces and with DAWs, especially for people who use soft synths (virtual instruments) and native fx while tracking. So, while it is desirable to use smaller buffer sizes in order to reduce latency, doing this puts more strain on a PC's performance, and that is where tuning or tweaking a PC and Windows can pay benefits.

Someone in another forum said it better than I can: 
"If your computer is your instrument, you had better learn to play it!"

They are not recommending the SSD's as primary HD's saying they are not reliable in the long term?

Someone better inform Apple then, because they have been shipping a lot of Macbooks with only SSDs.

The reliability (and performance) of SSDs has improved a lot since the early days.

One more concern is the number of problems reported with 64 bit installs of Sonar X1 on win 7.
A few folks are saying the 32 bit on XP is more stable. (what I have)
Would you advise a 32 bit install on a 64 bit machine? (Not sure of the 64 bit advantage)

Baloney. As already mentioned, a 64-bit OS enables more memory (more than 4GBs) to be used by the OS and applications (and also larger storage drive partitions). XP isn't more stable than Win7 (ime). I don't even think Sonar X1 can run on XP32 (or maybe not without installing an add-on for the different graphic mode).

Also interesting about my BR and MIDI. 
I'm not understanding how I can use it for midi input without the midi ports?

Sorry to confuse you. You can't use your BR-800 for MIDI I/O. Just as you can't use MIDI to trigger the BR-800's internal drum sounds. Dunno why Roland skimped on that, probably to keep the cost down or for product differentiation with the higher-priced BRs..


Was only pointing out that the BR-800 does in fact use MIDI internally (which is why its shows up as a MIDI controller device in Sonar). 


Yeah, you probably should have held on to that M-Audio MIDI interface (btw, M-Audio (formerly known as "Midiman") have long been one of the more reliable makers of MIDI interfaces (along with, ahem, Roland/Edirol)).


Clearer now?

thanks Goddard
"Someone better inform Apple then, because they have been shipping a lot of Macbooks with only SSDs"

Interesting that this outfit also sells Apple. A bit of conflicting info.
Could be the PC sales guy is a BS'er. He did have that sales Bafflegab vibe.


Yes I'm also looking for a MIDI interface, tho M-Audio has been identified in a couple of current threads here as problematic with Sonar and that Roland is more compatible due to it's association with Sonar?


My Sonar X1 expanded on XP 32 bit has been great for quite a while now with no special treatments.



Thanks for the info, this has all been very useful.


I'm going to ask that they set a desktop up for Sonar but not sure what to tell them.
Any specifics would be appreciated.