Now that I think about it, working with Clip selections isn't well-documented. I should probably do a video showing the workflow.

The matrix view will already loop cells, so as long as the column contents are multiples of each other, that is not an issue (2-bar loops can run with 4, 8 and such). Being able to fire the matrix elegantly is lacking, and being able to modify the contents of a cell requires it to be pulled into another location for editing (such as the track view). This back-and-forth of editing can make an utter mess of things quickly (also requiring muting/soloing overhead), and "quick recording" to new (clean) tracks must be done manually (insert/assign tracks to each row). As Beeps said, it is not "quick and dirty" but with some streamlining it could be made much more useful (to any music genre). A secondary view for firing the matrix would make a "quick and dirty" arranger if present - this does not currently exist, so firing the matrix adds additional overhead for complex ideas (MIDI can be used for this, but requires some shenanigans as the MIDI learn wants to "see" a controller, not another VST).

Anderton
The key is not to use the lassoo when dealing with song blocks that incorporate all tracks (which is what I need 95% of the time). I select all, then split at the beginning and end. Then I select all again, drag in the timeline, and have a keyboard shortcut to create a selection group. It takes longer to write about it than do it.

 
Usually I don't want to split the clips, as I want to preserve the extra beyond the end for cross-fading. (Also, I don't want that bit left behind when I move the section.) And sometimes there are MIDI notes with slow attack instruments where I play ahead of the first beat - splitting that clip will lose those notes.
 

But if you copy special and paste, they will. You can also drag and drop, then copy only the markers and paste later. I do that a lot of there are pitch markers for acidized clips.

 
I sometimes do the Cut Special and Paste routine; but since I can't split everything at measure boundaries, it usually ends up a mess.
 

As to clicking and selecting all being a pain when trying to remove a clip from a group, that happens if you use the Smart Tool but if you use the Select Tool, you can just Ctrl-Click to select the clips you want to exempt, then use the context menu to remove them from the group.

I'll give this a go, but generally I wouldn't want to remove clips from the group, just to quickly edit them individually. I did this with multi-tracked drums last year which were all grouped and it was a real hassle. In that case, it was worth paying the convenience price because it was essential that I was able to slide all the tracks around together, but in normal songwriting operation I don't think it would be.
 
All this would be irrelevant if the lasso worked in a sensible way, I think.
 

I'm sure more elegant ways could be invented, but I'm so used to this workflow in Vegas (where I'm always moving large blocks of video, audio, and automation around), that it's second nature and the fact that SONAR works the same way makes it easy for me. But it's also important to use the right tool for the right job or it gets klunky.

Have you ever tried Adobe Premiere? For the first 10 minutes you think, "wow, this is weird", but once you understand how it makes decisions on whether to ripple-edit or not, it's so much simpler than any alternative I've seen. No work arounds, no grouping, just drag and drop.

mettelus
The matrix view will already loop cells, so as long as the column contents are multiples of each other, that is not an issue (2-bar loops can run with 4, 8 and such)

I was talking specifically about a situation where I have 2 different drum loops filling the same time period as 1 guitar loop - I don't think Matrix View has a way of handling that.
 

Anderton
Now that I think about it, working with Clip selections isn't well-documented. I should probably do a video showing the workflow.

AAAaahhh!!
YES PLEASE!!
I posted this a while ago and got just one reply (with all due respect to the chap who responded)
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Confused-by-Clips-m3225663.aspx
I am still CONFUSED BY CLIPS.  Anything you could do would be great Craig.  YES PLEASE THANK-YOU! 

Meh... Sonar is totally capable of the "block" workflow and I've learned how to force it to do so but really the point is it could be easier. I have been continuously pointed to other programs that do this (who shall for the moment remain nameless) but that is not enough of a reason for me to waste money on/time learning a new DAW. I would just like to do this in Sonar and it would probably draw in quite a few new customers who are used to working this way.
 
Unfortunately I am now coming to the realization that one of the DAWs in specific (that shall remain nameless) that does this type of stuff is being used by most of the people in my old crowd that I may be working with so I may have no choice but to at least get their base version. That kind of ticks me off but whatever.

listen
Use what you like and like what you use!!!
 

I don't think one person in this thread would dispute that. We are simply discussing some of the shortcomings(and possible workarounds and solutions) when it comes to workflow for genre specific production. Most of the comments are from long time Sonar users who love the product :)

I like Sonar. I think it's the best creative tool for a creative tools like me.
 
I came from the old boring paradigm and will have to probably snag a recent version of such to stay compatible with people I'll likely be working with.
 
My priorities look like this...
 
Artist > Producer > Engineer...
 
Not the other way around. SPlat is an artist's tool IMO. To define it further I think it is an AUDIO artist's tool more than an "electronic" artist's tool. For the latter other platforms might work better (but not come with as robust of an instruments package).
 
It is almost kind of niche and boutique level as far as DAWs are concerned and it fits my particular "niche" very well... especially since it has been becoming more stable and handling the edit/mix stuff better these past couple years.
 
 
Edit: and to expand on that a little... look at how many guitar players and keyboard players we have here on the forum. It is very useful for those workflows and has the toolset in the base package to support them. I think a large amount of the negative posts criticizing the flow are by people that really would be better served by the DAWs that cater to other areas.
 
Still block arrangement, yo... that would be the b-dizzles.

Kylotan

mettelus
The matrix view will already loop cells, so as long as the column contents are multiples of each other, that is not an issue (2-bar loops can run with 4, 8 and such)

I was talking specifically about a situation where I have 2 different drum loops filling the same time period as 1 guitar loop - I don't think Matrix View has a way of handling that.
 

Not as a simple column fire, correct. The alt pattern would require another column.

Kylotan 
I sometimes do the Cut Special and Paste routine; but since I can't split everything at measure boundaries, it usually ends up a mess.

 
Sorry, I thought this was in the context of EDM, where there's usually quantization so splitting on boundaries isn't an issue. As I mentioned, if you split within MIDI notes, it gets messy.
 

Have you ever tried Adobe Premiere?

 
Yes, I wrote two Adobe "Classroom in a Book" projects for Peachpit press. Premiere seemed more convoluted to me than Vegas, but that's probably because Vegas is based on a DAW's workflow so it makes sense to me. However the integration between Adobe and Premiere was very cool.