I have this deadline to meet. With the amount of time I'm wasting with Take Lanes (disastrous UI, buggy behavior, data loss, complete crashes) I can calculate now I will not get my album done by this now hard deadline. I'm not being emotional here - I really can't see it happening at the rate I'm going given how much time Take Lanes is wasting. I seriously need a new solution.
 
My use case is that I'm recording a lot of triple-tracked 3-part vocal harmonies, requiring many takes and resulting in a lot of clips to sort through. With Layers, this was a semi-painstaking process, but the painstaking-ness of it was my own doing. Take Lanes have made this process painstaking for new reasons, having to do with the unpredictability and bugginess around dragging clips across tracks and across lanes, the enormous amount of unnecessary vertical scrolling taking place and cumbersome muting and soling experience, the frequent complete system crashes, even more frequent dropouts, and the frequent mysterious loss of entire clips. I can't keep doing this.
 
I don't see a way to work with X3 in this scenario without using Take Lanes. I'd just make a zillion separate cloned tracks for my vocal takes if that would fix it, but I suspect that's not a viable option (is it?) because then I'm stopping after every take to arm the next track, still a lot of work. Really though, is there ANY WAY AT ALL to record multiple takes and audition them without these despicable Take Lanes?
 
Here are some options I'm considering. Weigh in if you care to:
1. Ableton - PROS: Leave Take Lanes behind for good. CONS: Learn a whole new DAW after 25 years of loyalty to Cakewalk, and none of my current work will port over, and probably face a whole new list of woes I don't even know about
2. Learn a new way to work with X3 that doesn't require Take Lanes at all. Suggestions most welcome!
3. Go back to 8.5 - PROS: Go back to good old layers, which worked mostly just fine, CONS - I don't think my X3 projects are reverse-compatible. Is there a workaround at all?
4. Learn this "new workflow" people talk about with X3 but which I'm starting to suspect is a myth. PROS - Staying on my long, long Cakewalk journey, no need to learn or pay for a new DAW. CONS - I strongly doubt any new workflow will make these bugs and crashes go away
5. Muddle through with X3 Take Lanes -PROS: Can't think of any, CONS: Will not get my album released in 2014 which means I won't get that "end of the year" press which means way less media attention which means way less sales.
6. Rewrite my pieces to require less Take Lane frustration. -- Not even considering that
 

First of all, update to X3e if you haven't already because it has some take lane fixes.
 
Some people really don't like Take Lanes, some people do. The only advice I can give you is when I first started using comping, I was attempting to write a column about it for Sound on Sound. I couldn't wrap my head around it at all. Eventually I read all the documentation and learned the various tools - not a trivial task - and realized that everything I had learned about layers in previous versions was essentially irrelevant. Trying to apply those techniques to the current paradigm not only didn't work, it caused problems.
 
I also learned there was a big difference between using the Smart Tool and the Edit Tool, and that using the Take Lanes like layers was possible but again, required a different technique. The Take Lanes are optimized for a particular type of comping and you kind of have to do it the way Sonar wants you to do it.
 
Some people were sufficiently upset about Take Lanes I posted a thread called "Solutions for Using Take Lanes as Layers" that described what I had learned so far. Quite a few others chimed in with tips about what did and didn't work. This thread contains tips like "After recording your Lanes/Layers, DON'T USE THE COMPING TOOLS FOR EDITING unless you actually want to comp using the workflow for which Take Lanes were intended." I also did an article for Sound on Sound on comping that you might find useful. (A line to which I'm sure you will relate: "I predict X3's new comping will make some people's heads explode at first, because although the look is similar to what Sonar had before, the tools and procedures are quite different.")
 
Now, to your situation. First, it's no secret I'm a fan of Ableton Live for live performance but for DAW/studio work, Sonar is my tool of choice. If the studio is your orientation, Live probably won't do what you want. Second, when you're under a deadline, having to learn something you thought you knew from scratch is an issue.
 
The option that worked for me was just to stop and work with comping and layers on a scratch project. After 2-3 days, I got really good at it. But whether you can afford to take off a couple of days and become proficient with a significantly different feature is a question only you can answer.
 
At this point I use take lanes all the time both for comping and similarly to how I used layers. Once I got into it, my workflow sped up significantly. But that's my experience, and I don't really quite understand your workflow so I can't say with any certainty that how you expect to use take lanes will be similar to how I use them.
 
I think the most important take away is this: Comping is one thing, editing using Take Lanes like layers is another. They use different tools to perform different functions, and "crossing over" between the two is not advisable. There is a learning curve, although in my case, it turned out to be an investment - the time I lost getting proficient at the new protocol has since been offset by the amount of time I've saved.
 
Hope this helps, check out the links and see what you think.
 
 

jkoseattleTake Lanes have made this process painstaking for new reasons, having to do with the unpredictability and bugginess around dragging clips across tracks and across lanes, the enormous amount of unnecessary vertical scrolling taking place and cumbersome muting and soling experience, the frequent complete system crashes, even more frequent dropouts, and the frequent mysterious loss of entire clips. I can't keep doing this.

 
Reiterating much of what Craig wrote.  Did you update to X3e?  In earlier versions of X3 (and X2) I had lot of bugs with dragging clips around within takes (e.g., clips jumping to the wrong spot, or disappearing entirely). I found that X3e has fixed these bugs and works quite well.  
 
As for the wasted real estate, I agree. But a not bad workaround is to do a quick triage of your takes, keeping maybe the best 4-5 of each section and deleting the rest. You can then drag all of these clips into 4 or 5 lanes total and use "delete empty lanes" feature to clean it up. I found this works quite well to recover otherwise wasted space and make subsequent comping and edits much easier.
 
The "using lanes and layers" thread that Craig linked to has lots of other good ideas.  I for one find editing in take lanes to be fine now, but others still prefer to just comp in layers and then edit the comped track.  
 
Good luck.
 

Ha! I'll bet no one thought I'd see this message? ;-)
 
Well... I for one do prefer the older Layers system and voiced my opinions and frustrations all through my learning term...
 
I have come to a place of reasonability with Lanes now. while I was mostly happier with Layers, I can now work well with Lanes... My biggest frustrations with it now are the zoom issues and screen real estate issues... This is still a weak point to recovery...
 
What I've fallen into doing these days is essentially my Layers approach with bits of comping thrown in when they're handy... It's become more possible to do. I find I can work with the Smart Tool near 99% of the time with careful tool selection...
 
So there can be a form of peace for us Layers-Brained workers, and even some extras that are very handy...
 
The Track Display of a Lane-heavy track is pretty good... But the inabilities to zoom both smaller and larger for the Lane data itself is severely a sore point (for me)... Lanes need to be able to close as small as a track and zoom as large as a track. I "waste" more time clicking around with various zoom tools than I need for the actual edit-work when I get there. It used to be simple to lasso-zoom an area and have it's image fill the screen... this is no longer possible..
 
And there are times when for various reasons I have large Lane numbers that all need to be available for comping... I need to be able to squeeze more lanes on screen at one time... As with sometimes needing to see Lanes while seeing the rest of my tracks... the Track view is simply wasted space during comping.... Having such an image when closing the Lanes is a good addition...
 
I hope you can find a comfort zone for working with the new toolset... It can be done. I have to be more careful in exactly where I click, but outside of that I'm working much as I used to...
 
Keni
 

Thanks, at least it sounds like others are experiencing the same kind of pain. I just updated to X3e this evening so I'll try that out.
 
I think I need to explain my workflow as simply as I can and just ask how others would do it:
 
I will have a vocal phrase written for three part harmony, which I want to triple-track, for a total of nine distinct voices in all. In the finished product, they are stored in three tracks (Left Right and Center), with three vocal clips per track. The separate tracks are for panning and volume level purposes. Got it?
 
First I have a track called RECORD HERE that is used for recording the actual singing. I will sing the tenor part of maybe 4-bars of the song, looping maybe 8 times over. I now have 8 clips in 8 take lanes in the track RECORD HERE. I do all my singing at the same time (because quiet time in the house is at a premium :-)). So I now drag those 8 clips to a track called HOLDING PEN. I repeat this process for the bass and baritone parts. When done recording I have 24 clips in the HOLDING PEN.
 
Note: When I drag clips from multiple lanes to another track, all the takes crunch onto a single lane. There doesn't seem to be an option to mirror the lane placement of the clips when dragging them to another track. Grrrrr..
 
Ctrl-S, Ctrl-S Ctrl-S Ctrl-S!!!!!
 
Next step is auditioning to get my favorite three takes of each part. So I first drag all 8 takes of the tenor part into another track called AUDITION PEN. Then, due to the condition above, I now have to drag each clip one by one into its own Take Lane. Irritating. Anyway, I then audition each take of the tenor part in AUDITION PEN until I choose the three keepers. At this point I wish I could solo those three keepers to see what they sound like together, but I can't, I have to instead mute all the ones I don't want. Irritating. Anyway, I delete the 5 loser takes.
 
Next step is (ahem, minor) Auto-Tuning. Now I will drag each of the three winners one by one into a track called AUTO-TUNE and correct them individually. When a clip is corrected, I Apply Audio Effects to the clip and drag it to its final home, Left Right or Center. I repeat the tuning process for the other two takes.
 
I repeat the whole audition and auto-tune process for the bass and baritone parts. Then it's on to the next four bar phrase!
 
Painstaking yes, but it sounds nice.
 
So... if anyone cares to digest this... how can I accomplish this more easily!?!!??

Instead of dragging clips around, why not just clone the trk you want?

Just name a folder Record here. Create trks there for the harmony parts. Record your three parts.

Make another folder called Audition. Clone trks from Record Here to bring into Audition folder tks

After you audition, and separate the good from bad and clean up then clone those trks , bring them into project location you need them, rename them Left, Center, Right.

Would this work?

Grem
Instead of dragging clips around, why not just clone the trk you want?

Just name a folder Record here. Create trks there for the harmony parts. Record your three parts.

Make another folder called Audition. Clone trks from Record Here to bring into Audition folder tks

After you audition, and separate the good from bad and clean up then clone those trks , bring them into project location you need them, rename them Left, Center, Right.

Would this work?

You know... I think that WOULD work. I could think of RECORD and AUDITION etc as folders with multiple tracks in them, and cloning whole tracks... That would prevent me from dragging clips around. I think maybe I've been in a mindset that has prevented me from seeing this rather obvious solution. Is that what other people would have suggested, I mean... know that Grem has posted this, I feel sort of stupid that it hasn't occurred to me. OK, now I'm a little bit excited to  get to it....
 
Thank you!

That was my problem for a while too, trying to work in the new program the old way. It takes a little but to get use to the new way, but once you do you will not want to go back. My work flow is much faster than it use to be.

Let us know how it goes.

Grem
That was my problem for a while too, trying to work in the new program the old way. It takes a little but to get use to the new way, but once you do you will not want to go back. My work flow is much faster than it use to be.

 
Agreed 100%. jkoseattle, you are way overthinking this! Grem has suggested one easier way to do things but there are other options that would likely work equally well.
 
Updateing to X3e will make a big difference, but a bigger difference is there's a step that precedes learning how to do comping/takes in X3 - unlearning how to do comping/tales in X2.

Anderton

a step that precedes learning how to do comping/takes in X3 - unlearning how to do comping/tales in X2.

Yep! LOL