• SONAR
  • Video in X3d - To my fellow Post production Peeps
2013/12/17 13:22:16
markyzno
Dont expect much!
 
Firstly I have tried using both video engines.....as per here http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013354
 
My Thoughts....
 
1. I used to be able to import MOV's no problem (codecs on my system), I now cannot.
 
2. Video now exports (yay!) whereas before we had weird errors and even upon success would inflate a 200mb video file to 12gb or more. But, dont get too excited! Upon export the video is left with missing frames and a blocky picture (this was tested on a H264 1920x1080 on both video engines)
 
3. I am not willing to go and test the WMV route as nearly all my clients are Mac based (groan) and that option is useless to me, maybe some of you pop pickers will have better luck with WMV or the You tube options?

3. I am vastly MEH! about this, I was expecting something a bit better than just switching the engine and the Bakers hoping for the best, how much this has been tested I really dont know but it 100% seems to me that although their heart is in the right place with these "video" features that its a half baked attempt to get anywhere near PT and for this I am gutted....I was expecting so much more. I didnt have a problem with X3c so I am going to have to roll back to that since now X3d wont load up half my video projects anymore (I'm a professional Sound Designer)...Gosh I am glad that I got my latest batch of deliverables out this morning!! 

4. No AAF support, this would have been amazing, I have requested this....but hey ho.

5. I am now seriously gutted as foolishly I didnt create a restore point so am dreading rolling back to how I had my workflow going before.

6. I love this software and have been waiting SO LONG for Sonar to come up with something that at least works on importing and exporting video for those of us in the movie post production industry and I have to say I give this a big fat zero out of ten :(

A Sincere "Better luck next time bakers"

...sighs
 

2013/12/17 14:05:37
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Re 1.  I'm not sure how you are making that assumption. I will quote our documentation.
SONAR has a new Media Foundation-based video engine, which includes enhanced performance for high-definition video and better format support, including H264, MPEG-4, AAC, GoPro Cineform/Protune, and many QuickTime formats (in X64 as well).
 Video import enhancements
SONAR can import the following video formats:
• AVI
• MPEG-2
• MPEG-4/ H.264
• QuickTime (encoded as H.264/ .m4v or MPEG-4 only)
• Windows Media
 
So in fact X3D will import quicktime files both in X64 and X86. This was impossible using the prior engine since the Quicktime SDK is not supported on x64. This in itself is a huge enhancement. I tested quicktime import using Apple's sample quicktime files from from http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1425 and the first five listed files opened for me (no audio from the 3GP files)
We now load all these files except for sorenson and the mpeg2 file. The 3GPP files load video but not audio. SONAR X2 or earlier versions cannot load ANY of these files. This is a huge improvement especially since they load under X64 as well.
 
2.  I posted a response here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2951663
 
3. There is absolutely no need to roll back to X3C. X3D supports both the DX and Media Foundation engines. There are a few legacy formats that Media foundation doesn't support out of the box since Windows doesn't supply the newer codecs. If you need to use those you can easily switch back to the old DirectShow engine which is fully supported. This is described here:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013354
 
4. No AAF - It isn't supported currently out of the box in Windows. 
 
5.  See 3
2013/12/17 14:07:43
Biscuits
This is seriously disappointing news :(
I'm on X3b still, I skipped 'c' out of stability fears - so you'd recommend not upgrading to 'd' if I plan to use video playback to work to picture?  Video export isn't an issue for me...
Was really hoping for some post-friendly video features... is there anything in 'd' aside from the switch to a different engine?  Sliding or trimming video clips?  Output to Matrox or similar?
I've got a restore point set so I'm almost curious to tempt fate ;)
 
2013/12/17 14:14:52
Splat
Did you read Noels post at all?
2013/12/17 14:14:57
markyzno
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Re 1.  I'm not sure how you are making that assumption. I will quote our documentation.
SONAR has a new Media Foundation-based video engine, which includes enhanced performance for high-definition video and better format support, including H264, MPEG-4, AAC, GoPro Cineform/Protune, and many QuickTime formats (in X64 as well).
 Video import enhancements
SONAR can import the following video formats:
• AVI
• MPEG-2
• MPEG-4/ H.264
• QuickTime (encoded as H.264/ .m4v or MPEG-4 only)
• Windows Media
 
So in fact X3D will import quicktime files both in X64 and X86. This was impossible using the prior engine since the Quicktime SDK is not supported on x64. This in itself is a huge enhancement. I tested quicktime import using Apple's sample quicktime files from from http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1425 and the first five listed files opened for me (no audio from the 3GP files)
We now load all these files except for sorenson and the mpeg2 file. The 3GPP files load video but not audio. SONAR X2 or earlier versions cannot load ANY of these files. This is a huge improvement especially since they load under X64 as well.
 
2.  I posted a response here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2951663
 
3. There is absolutely no need to roll back to X3C. X3D supports both the DX and Media Foundation engines. There are a few legacy formats that Media foundation doesn't support out of the box since Windows doesn't supply the newer codecs. If you need to use those you can easily switch back to the old DirectShow engine which is fully supported. This is described here:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013354
 
4. No AAF - It isn't supported currently out of the box in Windows. You will need to buy a 3'rd party Media foundation compatible codec to do that.
 
5.  See 3




Shall we get into a friendly fight about this?
 
I Use SONAR EVERYDAY for Sound Design Professionally.......

QT after various codecs installed and god knows how many tweaks on my system with things like QTPro and Klite...MOV's worked, fluently and flawlessly within Sonar X1, X2 and X3c

X3d simply DOES not load my old video projects in MOV H264, I now get a small scrambled video view. Audio plays fine.

Upon using the bitrate calculator H264 DOES NOT encode correctly in X3d, the frame rate is skipping and the picture is pixelated.
 
Now, I am sure it may work for you guys testing and some your test environments but it simply does not work for me. Thats why I have to roll back.

I am merely sharing my experience thus far with X3d and it hasnt been pretty.

My workflow personally, will go back to using Sonar as a very amazing Audio DAW and using Premiere to handle video.
2013/12/17 14:14:59
dubdisciple
I think it is a step forward.  No, it's not likely to change the workflow of people who do video production for a living but i would rather thwey take baby steps than get too ambitious and hose up the entire program.  To answer Biscuits questions:
 
I doubt the upgrade will affect you one way or the other for video production.  It does support more files than previously so you will be able to import more formats.
 
You can trim now (I believe cakewalk refers to it as slip editing).  You can also set in and out points for video.  I did not see any options for output to matrox or similar hardware, but I may have just missed it.
2013/12/17 14:17:18
Biscuits
Just read it now, Noel posted while I was responding to the OP...
I'll give 'd' a go, worst case scenario I can roll back to 'b'!
2013/12/17 14:17:26
Splat
markyzno
Shall we get into a friendly fight about this?




2013/12/17 14:18:09
markyzno
CakeAlexS
Did you read Noels post at all?




I did, tested and doesnt work...could just be me...
 
BUT...I bloody well hate it when Sonar tell me it does work when it doesnt. Obviously I would need to test this on various systems to give a full and rounded opinion but on my very capable system Noels comments do not work. Simple.

I am going to have to roll back, I cant have MOV H264 not working on my system as it was before.

But, having said that, alot of peeps will have different systems and different codecs etc so will maybe have alot more joy than I.
2013/12/17 14:18:39
Splat
Biscuits
Just read it now, Noel posted while I was responding to the OP...
I'll give 'd' a go, worst case scenario I can roll back to 'b'!



Oh that makes sense now, sorry.
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