Alright... turned down the bass guitar a little and a couple other light tweaks. I tried a bunch of different stuff with the pultec EQ in the master but seemed to always end up right at the same settings I had for my previous version (even though I was not LOOKING at the original settings... at least my ears are working... well consistent anyway. lol) so I just stuck with the exact same settings I had before. I think it's a lot less boomy now but still bassy. In my good headphones this is pretty much exactly how I intend it to sound. On my crummy headphones it's still a little unpolished for my tastes but much better. At this point I have reached the limit of what my skillset and experience level will allow so I consider this done. Quite the adventure. Thanks again everyone for bearing with me through all this and all the great advice. I'll leave the other versions up on my soundcloud page for a maybe a week just so people can check out the progress on this but after that I'll clean out all the crud.
 
Here she be...
 
https://soundcloud.com/us...s-creep-remix-bass-fix
 
Cheers.
 
 
Everything below this line vvvvvvvvv is the original posts and links.
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Okay, guys. Spent the afternoon tweaking a bunch of stuff in the mix based on all the fine advice I got here. Still a couple things I could have done but this'll be the final update. Thanks for all the AWESOME advice from EVERYONE and or course a special thank you to Danny for taking so much time to impart his wisdom here for all to learn from. Absolutely great thread.
 
https://soundcloud.com/us...ps-creep-remix-revisit
 
See this post for a run down of what I changed...
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2946561
 
Cheers!
 
 
 
Everything below this line vvvvvvvvvv are the original posts, versions and updates.
================================================================
 
UPDATE: Okay... I did totally screw up the master. I don't care what anyone says it was incredibly stupid on my part. Here is the premaster version which still has some of the same issues that have been discussed but is not nearly as horrendous as what I posted originally IMO...
 
https://soundcloud.com/us...-creep-remix-premaster
 
 
Title edited so people know this actually goes to a song. Sorry... little spaced out lately. Well... more than usual. ;-)
 
Hello, everyone. Hope you have all been well. Sorry I have not been around but life has been particularly annoying and hectic so every extra second I've had has been put into working on remixing this tune.
 
So first off I know this should probably go into the songs forum and if the admins wanna flush it that's cool but I figured my buddies up here might want to see the results of my non stop nagging and queries. This is a song I recorded and "produced" (if you can even call it producing... lol) shortly after installing X2 and merely a few months after actually purchasing X1 in May 2012. I did not change ANYTHING on this track except for some very minor timing corrections on the drums. I wanted to keep it purely a mixing project to test out everything I've learned about various effects and use Sonar itself to bring the best out of a mediocre recording. I wanted to go through everything from setting up a project for mixing right through to creating a final mastered version... and that's what I did.
 
It ain't great. I made a lot of mistakes and there are other things I could have done in retrospect but it wasn't really about perfection. I just wanted to test a bunch of techniques out and get some mixing hours under my belt. Still I think it is a much better and clearer mix. I'll let you guys be the judge (and no need to be nice... I want to hear criticism, even if it's brutal). I'll provide more details throughout the thread.
 
Warning this is a loud metal song so you may want to turn your speakers down...
 
This is the freshly finished remix...
 
https://soundcloud.com/user432042324/beepster-creep-remix
 
And this is the original mix from a little over a year ago...
 
https://soundcloud.com/user432042324/the-beepster-creep
 
There is some other crap on my soundcloud page that hopefully doesn't autoplay. Does anyone know how to turn that autoplay crap off? Drives me nuts.

I'm going to just update this post with extra info unless replying to other posts instead of bumping the thread.
 
Okay... little more detail (very little). I don't know what was going on with the ride sample at the start. That is just how it sounded and it became really apparent when isolated like that for some reason so yeah... I did what I could there but it seems to slide in to the mix after things get going. Next time I'll be using a different ride sample.
 
The things I thing I did accomplish though that I've had problems with in the past is getting the drums and the bass to sit better in the mix. At least I think so. Some thoughts on that would be nice.
 
Cheers.
 
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I also think that I need to learn a hell of a lot more about mastering. I kind of got to the end of this then rushed through some basic mastering tuts/principles and hacked my way through it. I was getting anxious to move on to new material and really I think my next major study project is going to be mastering. I did get to use some of the fancier tools though that I totally did not understand before so even if it was a hack job I got the levels up, checked the overall freqs with the analyst, played with post production compression, etc, etc so it was kind of cool even if it could be a million times better.
 
Baby steps. ;-)
 
=======================================================
 
Just a note on the performance and recording.
 
The drums were performed "live" on my Korg padKontrol with the kick drum being played on a crummy on/off expression pedal (generic brand... not the Korg one). I had never played drums this way so it's all a little simplistic and awkward and although I played acoustic drums in a band for a few years I wasn't exactly a pro. I did it in takes one part a time and had to switch to performing the double kick with my fingers (only one expression pedal) but every part was indeed performed live without any input quantize. On the original I hadn't done ANY MIDI editing (because I didn't know how to back then) and on the remix I merely tightened things up a bit to the bass/guitars. There was some drift throughout because I wasn't accustomed to playing the controller (or anything) to a click track so that's why things may sound a little wonked as far as timing at certain points. I'm a lot better at following a click now and intend to put in a lot of hours practicing my pad drumming. I may however  have to resign myself to just programming in my beats though if I want to have any impressive drum parts.
 
The guitars and bass were both recorded line in straight through my interface but I actually have a Line 6 head with stereo XLR outs that I'll be using in the future and may even hook that up to my old Mackie mixer before inputting to the interface to get a better input signal.
 
Just in case anyone was curious. Cheers.
 
======================================================
 
Oh... and in other news I had a bit of an unforeseen windfall so I've upgraded to X3 Pro. I haven't had much chance to play with it yet but I'm psyched to start recording some NEW material with it. Sorry... I actually meant to mention that in my OP. After I sort out some other real life mayhem I will be ripping the program apart and hopefully get back to providing whatever basic help/insights I can. It does indeed look rather nice. Cheers.
 
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After some thought... I think I'm gonna do some more studying and spend a LITTLE more time mastering this again. It's slick on many of the sources I've tested it through but I think it can be better and I need experience getting my own masters together. I sure as heck can't afford to pay anyone to do it right now. Right now though I have some real world problems that need tackling. Maybe next week with some fresh ears.
 
I know I'm mostly talking to myself but thanks for listening.

Any thoughts here guys?
 
Anyway... I think I need to really revisit the master here and completely do the compression differently. I set the LP-64 quite low so it was just barely working but the more I listen to it through my crummier speakers and headphones I'm really hearing hearing some pumping (ESPECIALLY on that ride part at the beginning. Maybe I should just go against everything I've been reading, dump the fancy multiband and run it through the PC-2A. I also notice a loss of clarity so maybe I should try and give it a bit more lift. I used a modern Slayer recording as my reference material and double checking things through various sources this, to my ears, sounds as clear and defined compared to that stuff BUT then I compare it to something like Necrophagist and it sounds a little dead in comparison. Mind you that stuff is ultra clean so I may be being unrealistic considering my limited resources.
 
Whatever... sorry for the AWing bump. Just thought I might get at least a couple posts. Seriously rip into this. I can take it. ;-)

Hey Beeps. Nicely done on both mixes. I thought the guitars and basses were well balanced and placed. Cymbals were right nice too. To my ears I was expecting the drums to be a little more present as I kept trying to hear them. That could be my environment though...
 
Keep at man you be making progress.
 
Regards,

Wow that's quite a change! The sound has definitely opened up a lot, way more clarity than the original mix. If I had a criticism it would be that the cymbals are a little too prominent and fizzy sounding, at least on my headphones. It kind of contrasts with the warmth of the rest of the mix a little too much. Actually what I'm most impressed with is the bass, all too often it gets lost in a dense metal mix like this, but I can hear that bass line very clearly through my cans. You've got that sitting just right IMO. Great sounding guitars. 

LOVE IT BEEPS!

I agree the drums could be a little more prominent...at the 
break points in a song like this a like to hear the thump thump nice and loud
of the drums...but overall this is my kinda music!  Well done!

The difference to me is night and day. A nice cliche' but not really a true indication of how profound the difference really is. Not because it was remixed but because of the clear accumulation of knowledge that the one shows over the other. Beep I am not a metal fan but I do know how good something sounds.  Here you have presented growth that should be inspirational to anyone confronted with the task of understanding digital audio.  Talent is also apparent.   

+1, very nicely (re)done!!!
 
I will crawl back into my cave now... catch you all again in 11 months

Hi Beeps,
 
I actually have a totally different take on this that is different from all the positive feedback you've received from everyone else. You know me, the last thing I'd ever want to do is deter your progress or upset you, but you've put too much time into this just to have me sugar coat things on your behalf. If you'd like me to send it to you in private, I will.
 
If you'd like me to post here (in the event what I have to say may be helpful to others) that's fine too. It very well may be helpful to a few people seeing how their opinions are drastically different than mine. Opinions of course are just that, but to me there are some important things that I'm a bit astonished others did not mention.
 
What I have to say is of course long, in depth and doesn't pull any punches. If you'd be interested in something like that at all, let me know. I wrote it up earlier today when no one had posted any replies yet and decided to ask you how or if you wanted my take. Let me know. :)
 
-Danny

Heh, thanks guys. I had just gone to bed when all your nice comments got posted (sorry). I can't reply in detail right now as I have a bunch of appointments today and am just getting my butt in gear. Maybe tonight but definitely tomorrow.
 
And, Danny... let 'er rip, man. I was hoping you would show up and you know I more than respect your opinion... I cling to every word of it (and a lot of your insights here on the forum actually went into this wherever they applied... even if they may not have been expertly executed). Considering I've gotten so much help here from all the users it's only fair they get the benefit of your critique as well. Don't worry about laying it all out. I want/need that because as I said I'm hearing a some things that I'm not really digging and I think it may be due to my "mastering" job which was rushed and kind of bumbling. Just for a reference point so you know what I was going for check out some of the more recent Slayer recordings like from Divine Intervention and beyond. To my ears those are pretty clean recordings BUT with a lot of grit baked into the mix (if that makes any sense). I know you go for a bit more of a polished tone which I need to learn too and may indeed be better for this (Check out the Necrophagist stuff I mentioned earlier... Stabwound is a good track from them that is a cleaner sound than the Slayer stuff even though the lead and bass tones are more robotic than I like). Still though there is something just not quite right about it now that I listen to it after export. It's a lot less muddy but not quite where I wanted it... like there is a blanket of noise in the hi mid range. IDK... that's why I'm here. ;-)
 
As far as the drums/cymbals... I'm glad that was brought up. I thought the cymbals were a little too present but I felt if I turned them down or took away the hi end they would get buried too much so I will keep that in mind. The toms were another issue... I used the Rock Legends kit for BFD and although I really like that kit due to it's warmth I think the toms are a little too warm/dead for this type of work so I'll probably try other tom samples in the future. I also think I should have tried out a couple doubled samples on the kick and snare but thought they were cutting rather well so I left it. I did double and eq the kick track to get a low "woomph" sound which helped (I think) but it was just a clone, not a different sample.
 
Anyway... just some details as I'm icing my back before getting ready for the day. Thanks for stopping in guys and looking forward to your thoughts, Danny. Cheers!