I followed helpfile topic Recording a soft synth's miid output" and the
 
"To hear a soft synth's midi output through another track"
"To record a soft synth's midi output through another track"
 
1. enable midi output, if not already
2. from another midi track select input to that midi out enabled synth
3. enable echo on that new midi track which in turn has output to another synth
4. what now comes out on that output should play on another track, to record it or just hear it as stated
 
Not working - so I filed a bug report which was rejected and referred to contact support(with a sample project).
Waiting over three weeks for a support reply - I got that yesterday.
(if not with kind intervention of Andrew Rossa I would still be waiting)
 
And instead of telling me how to do it - support wanted to know where in documentation it stated to do it that way which they stated were incorrect.
 
So I'm asking you guys - how do you route midi out to anything useful like another synth to play in unison etc?
 
In Studio One you do it like described above, and in Reaper it's a breeze having 16 midi buses(16 channels each) to send all over the project in any way you like - having multiple synths play from one clip is just adding another send and keep midi but disable audio(or how you like it). I really hoped that VST3 support in X3 would remove all the old routing hurdles.
 
Thanks.

You have asked about a function that does not work very well in Sonar  (in any X version).  The method you have described above looks correct to me.  Step 2 should be " from another midi track select input from that midi out enabled synth"
 
It should work well if you only have one VSTi with midi out enabled to one soft synth in a project.  If you try to anything beyond that, the results are very unpredictable.  
 
Interesting that cake tech support would try to deflect anything about vsti enable midi out as a documentation problem.... Too funny
 
I thought this was all supposed to be fixed in X3c.  But so far it looks like not much has changed.   The crash is slightly different in X3c, but not really worth wasting anymore keystrokes on trying to describe.  Here is the entire issue described.
 
Should help with getting your routing working for one vsti
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/X3-freezing-because-of-MIDI-routing-m2900977.aspx
 
JR

Really good, thank you for confirming - then I know I'm not crazy and won't bother waste my time this weekend with that.
Step 2 is done as you describe - but your wording is more clear than helpfile.
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X3&Lang=EN&Req=SoftSynths.19.html#1103890
 
I guess Cake should sum up all these midi out issues reported and they will nail it eventually. Probably related.
 
My first bad luck was to use Waves Element that we now in x3c know wrongly were scanned as having midi out. But later I loaded AddictiveKeys, Dimension and Independece and tried as well - no luck.
 
Second mistake, by bad luck, would be, that I didn't bother to turn off midi out when loaded second and third synth - since it's, as you say,commonly known issue then with multiple such instances.
 
But my reference project shipped to support/bugreporter was just two instances of Dimension where one was midi out enabled, the other disabled.
 
We'll see what support come up with.

 
 

Reply from support:
"I've confirmed on our end that this text is specific to Direct X Plugins only in SONAR. We need to update our documentation to specify that."
 
But not a word how to do it for VST plugins - which is what I want to know in the first place, consulting helpfiles.
 
My God, Cake support is really digging a hole for themselves.
[(:]
 

The solution - though it is a bit craptastic!
One:
Open a synth from the rack and choose the Enable midi output option. We'll call the first one Dim Pro. Get a patch up so you can hear it.
Two:
Open up a second synth (the slave) and don't choose the midi output option. This one is called Rapture. Get a patch up so you can hear it.
Three:
Make sure the Dim Pro midi input is your controller keyboard.
Make sure the Dim Pro midi output is Dim Pro.
Make sure the Rapture midi input is Dim Pro.
Make sure the little blue boxes (input echo I believe) are blue for both synths.
 
Try playing something. If your set up is the same a mine it won't work, only the Dim Pro patch will play .
 
Now comes the funny part:
 
Four:
Delete the Rapture synth and the associated tracks (yes, you read it correctly).
Five:
Create a Rapture synth and get a patch up so you can hear it (eventually).
Six:
Make sure both blue boxes are blue and select as the midi input of the new Rapture as All inputs > Midi Omni.
Seven:
Press a key on your midi controller and be enthralled as the Dim Pro patch plays along with the Rapture patch (or vice versa).
 
There may be a better way but this way worked for me and it didn't work the way it should (so I wonder what the sensible solution is?).
 
Grum.
 

Are using simple instrument tracks or separate VSTi and midi tracks ?  I have found no difference my self so I have always defaulted to simple instrument tracks because they are well....simple.

I just create the midi clips on one track and copy and paste them to whatever additional midi tracks I choose to play the same data, and that works great.
 
Bob Bone
 
 

I am confused with this post. If you want to hear two synths in unison (same keys), why not simply open two synths and give them the same input signal (AKA Grum's "Now comes the funny part")? I have done this often by accident running "MIDI Omni" with multiple tracks echoed... the MIDI will drive every echoed track at the same time. Even if one "could" drive the other, you are creating latency chains.
 
The other thing that confuses me is that I thought the "output" of the synth is audio... so this would not drive another synth as a midi input. Am I missing something?

Thanks guys for input.
 
Yes, you can copy clips all over - and yes you can have two tracks armed with echo/record and make two tracks. Those are workarounds.
 
But it does not solve the other uses of midi out. Being able to use VST midi plugins in audio tracks taking input from a synth(shoulde be fixed in X3c) and then pass on to another synth. And it does not solve recording arpeggiators - that not always on every round sound the same. Basically what the help topic talked about - but only work for DX plugins, as support said.
 
The real downer in all this - Cakewalk is not on top of what they are doing. I'm loosing my confidence rapidly that they ever will be.
 
Can you believe support said I did it the incorrect way - but did not tell what the correct way to do it was?
 
last part of support reply:
"I'm guessing this what written when Direct X was the only plugin format that we supported in SONAR. I am sorry for the inconvenience."
 
Is this guy IQ70 - or what - not getting my topic was not about documentation and they should correct that. I turned to documentation to see how to do things.
 
How the **** do you use the midi out - which is there on every bleeding adding of synth page?
 
They rather change documentation than fixing limitations.
 
Right now I'm back on Studio One. Not moving any more projects to X3 - it's a waste of time. Cakewalk just not seem to making the full distance - in the end they fail just before the finish line.
 
You make proper problem reports - which are rejected in an hour - and sending you to this kind of support instead(waiting months for this kind of reply) - which they obviously think is going to feed developers with better input. They think users are idiots and their support is really what to rely on.
- Yeah, right. Good luck with that.

I don't see what I do as a work around, it is how I chose to do it all along, and it works just fine.
 
As far as the arpeggiator recording goes, I don't quite understand why doing a copy/paste after you recorded the initial track wouldn't work - perhaps I am not getting what you were trying to explain.
 
Bob Bone