X3 freezing because of MIDI routing?

As a point of reference - this works in Live 8.4.1 (64-bit):
 

You mentioned sometimes not all tracks being audible. If Sonar is dropping MIDI notes, that could be due to the MIDI buffer size being too low. Have you tried increasing it to 500 or more? Also, what's your audio driver buffer set to?

I can make an absurdly ridiculous number of these tracks work fine in Live:
 
http://www.arachnaut.net/audio/Sonar/CWBRN-20028/It-Works-in-Live-8.4.1-quite-well.png
 

At one time there were long-standing issues with routing midi from VSTis back into Sonar's input. Similar problems were discussed.   Perhaps that is the problem Noel's blog referred to. Not to say this is the same as your problem, but definitely send in all your findings by the problem reporter. They may not have caught every bug.

Sonar does not differentiate midi channels with multiple soft synthe sending midi out. This is one of my big peeves.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=73Pf1b6bTk8

yeah i resorted to loopmidi when i do it in sonar, but when i need to do this kind of routing i typically use cubase now. 

hey archanaut...
thank you for turning me on to spiral!
that's one of the several ensembles in reaktor i hadn't made it to yet.
it is awesome... i'm digging into the guts of it right now the rgba/color macros are very cool!
what a cool tool...
 

X3b, out now, may be the resolution to this. Link

No change as far as I can tell. It still crashes.

BTW...it is the exact same thing with a plug in called Catanya.  Catanya is basically a midi arp.  You set it up with enable midi out and it drives any vsti. 
 
You can run a single instance of Catanya but as soon as you set up a second instance it plays for about 5 seconds and then hangs so bad that you have to reboot the PC.  Whatever audio is stuck plays until the windows shutting down screen appears.
 
This has been repeatable and reported since Sonar 8.5 I think.  I have upgraded PCs, Operating systems, Catanya came out in a 64 bit version, and I am now on X3b and the same thing.  It crashes so hard there is no report to send.  If there was I would spam CW with the reports.
 
I have set up at least 5 instances of this plug in reaper and it never crashes.   I can use reaper as rewire device running Catanya in Sonar and it will not crash.
 
Don't hold your breath about any action on this one.  I can only assume that they know what the issue is, but it is a fairly extensive and expensive repair to the midi engine and as it affects a small group it is very low down on the plan of record.
 
Other than this annoying and on going saga, X3 rocks.  This is the only way I have been able to crash things so far.

This is really disappointing. . I upgraded to X2 becuase support told me this was fixed in X2 but it wasn't; now it's called out as a fix in X3b but seems it's still not fixed.

I use a lot of vsti arps in my projects (kirnu cream mainly), and this bug meant Sonar was unusable so switched to reaper while I waited for a fix. Would love to know whether this is EVER going to be fixed. Midi routing working properly without crashing seems like a pretty basic DAW feature to me..

Matt

Wow....almost on to page 3 after only 22 hours.  Very active forum.
 
JR

This thread is related:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/X2-and-Kirnu-Cream-anyone-m2909298.aspx
 
My original trouble ticket that started this thread was CWBRN-20028, and it became Case 114187. The last status was "Submitted to Development".
 
It does seem odd that there is no real MIDI routing or Buss in Sonar as the original MIDI cable was a true point to point buss. Everything had a MIDI In, Out and Thru and there were MIDI patch bays to handle switching and performance setup. On the early Atari ST MIDI programs like Dr. T's XOR I was able to save complex MIDI arrangements and make libraries of MIDI performance presets. And that was just with a few synths and rackmounts. Now we have hundreds.
 
Wayback to 1990:
 

 

Only freezes in X3 for me was with midi routing as well.
I was troubleshooting why I could not get midi out from any synth over to another track.
 
So I used midi monitor plugins - which I gather have a hard time keeping up if made syncronous, which I don't know.
 
As long as I let those monitor plugin be disabled though - no problems. Just no action from midi out on synths.
 
So it might not be the same issue - don't know. Could be these freeware Tencrazy midi fx stuff.
But there are similarities. I was really trying to get a VST midi plugin on another track getting data from synth out.
 
Summing all things up - it might help narrow down.
 
Anyway - up you go.

I discovered Spiral a few weeks ago and it is indeed a lot of fun. One thing I don't like about using MIDI-out synths in Sonar is that you seem to have to link the synth to an audio track in order for the synth to respond to the transport (unless there's something I'm missing here). It just means you end up with a superfluous track that's doing nothing except connecting the synth to the song, so to speak. Surely it should respond to the transport simply by virtue of being in the synth rack? 
 
Anyway, I tried to reproduce your crash conditions. I got as far as loading a second instance of Spiral and routing it to a second synth (Z3TA+2 in my case) and without me doing anything else, my computer crashed BIG time. First Sonar crashed. Then, as I navigated to this forum to find this thread, the whole computer totally froze. No access to task manager, no nothing. Had to manually power down.