• SONAR
  • Clone tracks confusion (p.2)
2013/09/11 12:22:30
robert_e_bone
ston
Not that I've been able to find.  I've had a look in the help but that just explains the options that are available in the clone track dialog, it doesn't go into any depth about the relationship between cloned tracks. 
 
I remember a recent clone track issue thread on these forums, I'm going to try to find that to see if it helps.
 
[edit] Found it, I think this is what I'm looking for (it sounds like the same issue I was looking for an answer to): http://forum.cakewalk.com/Why-are-mix-controls-on-cloned-instrument-tracks-linked-m2856182.aspx
 
[edit2] Like in the above linked thread, I was using a Simple Instrument Track (SIT).  The weird thing is I tried putting the tone generator in the FX bin of an audio track, but it wouldn't generate any test tones in that arrangement, so I went back to using a SIT. 
 
I also found that although the manual states that a new MIDI track is created when cloning a SIT, linked to the original synth, what I was seeing was a SIT, not a MIDI track.  Cloning just works in a weird way with SITs it seems.  Oh well, I'll give audio tracks another try later on, maybe the DAW gods will smile upon me and they'll work this evening.


Well, since a SIT is a combination of midi and audio, I would think that if trying it with regular audio tracks that you would also need to create a copy of your midi track, if you are expecting midi to be producing sound for that audio track.
 
I am though a bit confused as to what you are trying to do with audio tracks, since it appears that you are really expecting to clone midi data.  Perhaps you could take another stab at explaining.  (I will go back and read the earlier posts again, as I likely just missed something).
 
If your goal is to have an additional audio track playing the sound generated from an existing MIDI track, would it work for you to just create one or more additional AUDIO tracks, then set their inputs to the output of the synth that is attached to the existing MIDI track?  That would allow you to set up different effect chains for each audio track, if that is your goal.
 
Just a thought, 
 
Bob Bone
 
2013/09/11 13:14:29
ston
robert_e_bone
I am though a bit confused as to what you are trying to do with audio tracks, since it appears that you are really expecting to clone midi data.  Perhaps you could take another stab at explaining.  (I will go back and read the earlier posts again, as I likely just missed something).
 


OK; my first thought was to find a synth with a sine wave.  So I created a SIT with the iBlit VSTi synth.
 
Alas, iBlit doesn't have a sine wave oscillator! :-(  So I then popped an instance of the MDA TestTone VST into the FX bin of the track.  This doesn't require MIDI to generate its tones, you just set some sliders and voilà.
 
So the track had no MIDI data as I'd switched from trying to use a VSTi to a tone generator.  I then started having the above clone issues so I next tried using an audio track which didn't work.
 
Ah...I have now figured out why!  The audio track needs to have Input Echo enabled, but the SIT track doesn't.  That's a little odd perhaps; if an audio track has a synth, and you drive it via MIDI, Input Echo does not need to be enabled to hear the synth.
 
You learn something everyday (and forget 10 more) :-)
2013/09/11 14:13:23
robert_e_bone
So it is up and running for you?  If so, WAHOO!
 
Bob Bone
 
2013/09/11 15:40:12
brundlefly
ston
Ah...I have now figured out why!  The audio track needs to have Input Echo enabled, but the SIT track doesn't.  That's a little odd perhaps; if an audio track has a synth, and you drive it via MIDI, Input Echo does not need to be enabled to hear the synth.
 



It makes sense because there's normally never a need to not echo the output of a soft synth because its output is dead silent when it's not being driven by MIDI input, and it can't be direct-monitored. So assigning the input of an Audio track to a soft synth automatically makes it an Instrument track that has no Input Echo button.
 
An audio track receiving input from your interface, on the other hand, may have noise on it that you don't want to hear when not recording/rehearsing, or it might be getting input from an instrument that is being monitored directly and doesn't need to be echoed.
 
Your situation is unusual in that this plugin apparently makes noise without MIDI input and without the transport running, and you put it in the FX bin, so the audio track isn't becoming an Instrument track.
2013/09/12 05:06:35
ston
brundlefly
ston
Ah...I have now figured out why!  The audio track needs to have Input Echo enabled, but the SIT track doesn't.  That's a little odd perhaps; if an audio track has a synth, and you drive it via MIDI, Input Echo does not need to be enabled to hear the synth.
 



It makes sense because there's normally never a need to not echo the output of a soft synth because its output is dead silent when it's not being driven by MIDI input, and it can't be direct-monitored. So assigning the input of an Audio track to a soft synth automatically makes it an Instrument track that has no Input Echo button.

 
That's not quite what I was thinking of.  I was talking about when a synth is inserted into an audio track's FX bin, not when the track's input is set to the output of a synth.  In this case it's still an audio track not an instrument track isn't it?
2013/09/12 06:32:23
thebiglongy
A thread similar to this came up a month or so back.
I'm not sure where the confusion lie's here with regards to cloning. To my mind, if you clone something in a daw it should create however many multiples you have asked of it, then when editing the master of the cloned tracks, the clone tracks adjust accordingly.
Duplicate tracks however would be the option to use if you wanted to just make a copy of the track with all effects and such. (That said, it's been a while since i've managed to get 5mins to make any music and am unsure if this option is available in x2?) What you do on each track in this instance should not be replicated on any other tracks.
2013/09/12 12:14:13
ston
Well, the results of working out where the hell my monitors are at exactly with respect to frequency response are in.
 
Here's a picture of the stack of parametrics that I've come up with to correct them (holy EQ curves Batman!)  Order is top->down, left->right.  The Channel Tools is just for a couple db makeup gain.
 

 
I've been using the following to judge the results:

Set of 4x reference tones from Danelec's website (bass staircase, continual frequency sweep, pink noise, 85Hz reference), bass staircase from SOS's website, MDA's Tone Generator, MeldaProduction's MOscillator (really useful that) and various well mastered music tracks.  I've got the response as flat as I can now using EQ, there's still a little dip centered around 90 hz or so but the filters start ringing if I try to tweak that region any more.
 
The difference is staggering.  I wonder how much is due to my room (it's just my bedroom with no acoustic treatment) and how much is the monitors not being quite as flat as claimed?
 
I even found out that A#3 was making the mains plug/socket resonate on the right hand monitor, not sure if there's anything I can tighten up there but perhaps just using a different lead might help.
2013/09/12 21:23:42
brundlefly
ston
I was talking about when a synth is inserted into an audio track's FX bin, not when the track's input is set to the output of a synth.  In this case it's still an audio track not an instrument track isn't it?



Yes, I think that's exactly what I said in closing. I was just explaining why it's not odd that there's no Input Echo button on an Instrument track.
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