I get nervous when you say Windows update. I had to re-install Sonar and every plug I had a few times in the past. When I updated from Windows 8 to 8.1, thankfully, the only thing I ended up having to re-install was Addictive Drums. I'm hoping 10 will be painless.

rontarrant

SilkTone
Right now it is impossible to get low latency on WinRT (aka "modern"/Metro/toy apps)

This likely won't be an issue for most. Besides, those using W-RT won't be able to upgrade for free anyway, sorry to say.

 
Just to come back to WinRT for a sec... Note that the latency issues I'm talking about is for all platforms supporting the new WinRT API. So this would be Windows Phone, Windows tablets as well as desktops running a WinRT app (from the Windows Store). So no matter how fast or expensive your hardware is, your are SOL when running a WinRT app. MS even removed the ability to adjust thread priorities, something absolutely required when writing a low latency audio app (and probably why they needed to remove exclusive mode from WASAPI under WinRT).
 
Of course, this doesn't affect real apps, just "modern"/metro/toy apps, but it might be worth keeping in mind if anyone was waiting for some music app to be ported.

 If they ditch the Crapp store and allow us to download and install .exe I may upgrade sooner than later. I have a craptop running W8. I hate the Adobe Reader, Zinio Reader.  On a W7 system you download installers and it's much quicker than having the MS Crapp Store taking care of all of this.
 
http://www.fixedbyvonnie.com/2014/08/microsoft-windows-store-seriously-sucks/
 
You have to blame developers with this one.
http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=14334
 
My fix for dealing with certain apps was to buy an iPad. Apple is going to miss Steve Ballmer.

kitekrazy1
My fix for dealing with certain apps was to buy an iPad. Apple is going to miss Steve Ballmer.

Haha, my fix was also to get an iPad Air 2 so that I can get a functional tablet. This after years of vowing never to get an Apple product. I paid $$$ for a Surface Pro 3 only to find out it makes a horrible tablet due to the state of the Windows Store. I was particularly interested in music apps (especially for composing music), but due to making it impossible to get low latency in a Windows Store app (no matter what hardware you are on), means there isn't even one high quality audio app.
 
I hope the Windows Store keeps failing so that they eventually just have to give up. I feel they are abandoning the desktop which is needed to run real applications like Sonar (they don't even have a clear developer roadmap for desktop apps anymore). Sonar would never work as a finger app. Maybe a Sonar companion app can run as a finger app, but nothing as complex as Sonar can ever be degraded to a finger app.

kitekrazy1
 If they ditch the Crapp store and allow us to download and install .exe I may upgrade sooner than later. I have a craptop running W8. I hate the Adobe Reader, Zinio Reader.  On a W7 system you download installers and it's much quicker than having the MS Crapp Store taking care of all of this.
 
http://www.fixedbyvonnie.com/2014/08/microsoft-windows-store-seriously-sucks/
 
You have to blame developers with this one.
http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=14334
 
My fix for dealing with certain apps was to buy an iPad. Apple is going to miss Steve Ballmer.

I am a little confused by your post.
I have never used the Windows store except once to get some Win 8.0 update. 
I have hundreds of apps running. THese were installed like any other app. download the exe, install it.
You do not need the Modern interface or the Windows store.

microapp
I am a little confused by your post.
I have never used the Windows store except once to get some Win 8.0 update. 
I have hundreds of apps running. THese were installed like any other app. download the exe, install it.
You do not need the Modern interface or the Windows store.

I think the point is more that MS is pushing to move all future applications to be "modern" apps, as opposed to being desktop apps. You can see this clearly by their lack of any new support for desktop development (Win32, Winforms, WPF etc no longer being actively developed for example), and no roadmap for desktop development. Most Windows devs don't even know what MS technology to use anymore to create a new desktop app with due to this lack of roadmap from MS.
 
Anyway, we are lamenting the sad state of this new direction MS is trying to push everyone into, not that you can't install or run desktop apps today because you certainly can.

The Windows 10 store will have Win32 applications also. It just makes more sense. Especially for security reasons.
Eventually all OSes will work this way.  It's the future, so might as well quit complaining and get used to it. 

SilkTone

rontarrant

SilkTone
Right now it is impossible to get low latency on WinRT (aka "modern"/Metro/toy apps)

This likely won't be an issue for most. Besides, those using W-RT won't be able to upgrade for free anyway, sorry to say.

 
Just to come back to WinRT for a sec... Note that the latency issues I'm talking about is for all platforms supporting the new WinRT API. So this would be Windows Phone, Windows tablets as well as desktops running a WinRT app (from the Windows Store). So no matter how fast or expensive your hardware is, your are SOL when running a WinRT app. MS even removed the ability to adjust thread priorities, something absolutely required when writing a low latency audio app (and probably why they needed to remove exclusive mode from WASAPI under WinRT).
 
Of course, this doesn't affect real apps, just "modern"/metro/toy apps, but it might be worth keeping in mind if anyone was waiting for some music app to be ported.

Windows is not abandoning the desktop. In fact if you watched the Windows 10 live demo, it's quite the opposite.
MS have a pro audio team working on low latencies. Not all the audio updates will make it into Windows 10 but will be included in updates sometime after that.
 
Also why would you want to run Sonar on a tablet anyway? It doesnt make any sense. Just get a deskop PC and be done with it.

I just installed the latest 9926 Preview Version Windows 10.  I did a clean install rather than an upgrade of the version I had installed, as nothing other than Sonar X3 was installed on it. 
 
After the Win 10 install, I downloaded the Command Center and then installed Sonar Platinum.  It installed without problems.  I didn't get any further, other than to start Sonar, and it initialized OK.   Later this week, I'll install the other applications and my Roland Studio-Capture and try some test recordings.

soundtweaker
Windows is not abandoning the desktop. In fact if you watched the Windows 10 live demo, it's quite the opposite.
MS have a pro audio team working on low latencies. Not all the audio updates will make it into Windows 10 but will be included in updates sometime after that.
 
Also why would you want to run Sonar on a tablet anyway? It doesnt make any sense. Just get a deskop PC and be done with it.

 
Well, you kinda missed some of my points I think. First of all, when I'm saying "if anyone was waiting for some music app to be ported", I don't mean Sonar in particular. Just the types of music apps you find plentiful in the Apple store. Forget about getting any of those in the Windows Store due to the WinRT API.
 
As for Sonar itself, some people go on as if "modern"/metro/toy apps are the future and everything should move there (go read the C9 forums for examples of this). I'm pointing out how absurd this is due to the fact that real applications like Sonar will never work when reduced to a finger app.
 
Also, the last few years MS has certainly angered many longtime Windows devs due to their focus on "modern"/metro/toy apps only, and lack of clear roadmap for real apps. You can find examples of this all over the internet. Compared to, say, 5 years ago, MS has become completely disconnected from Windows devs due to their severe case of Apple Envy.
 
What you saw in the Windows 10 demo was simply backpedaling due to the Windows 8 backlash, and trying to assure Windows devs that they still care about the desktop. However, today we still don't have a clear roadmap for Windows desktop development. There was some half-hearted attempt at a "roadmap" in this WPF blog a while ago. When you read "Work on improving WPF has never really stopped", and then they list some minor improvements to prove their point, you know it's on life support.
 
As for getting desktop apps via the Windows Store, yes that can be good and I agree we are all moving to such a model for various reasons, but that wasn't my point. It was about the WinRT API specifically, which is supposed to be the future of Windows development.