For the reality-challenged:
 
1. The "vocal minority" didn't get bent out of shape. AFAIK one person in the "forum changes" thread expressed an opinion that deals were drowning out other discussions and CW/Willy replied as follows:
 

This is a good point - going forward I'm not sure that we'll actually allow these types of posts on our forum. Let's face it, KVR is a much better source of information for this type of info and we've already seen a few incidents with representatives of another company getting into arguments with users on our forum. The DAW and hardware sections are useful complements to our products. The software forum is starting to smell a lot more like a spam bin/advertising bulletin board.

There is a lot of good discussion around software that is valid and helpful to users. Would it make sense to limit the scope of conversation to discussion about compatibility/tools/features of a software product and not allow advertisements or promotions?

 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Announcement-Community-Updates-m3083225.aspx#3083433
 
 
I suggested that since deals were valuable, they be split to a separate sub-forum rather than being eliminated. Several people agreed with me, some expressed keeping it as it was.
 
But, interestingly, many of the "silent majority" here chose to remain silent rather than cross-pollinate that thread which was expressly there for the purpose of receiving input about changes from the community and was a sticky at the top of every sub-forum for weeks.
 
 
2. Go look at Deals. Two thirds of the posts have ZERO replies, and aside from a thread about "Deals Are Now Here?", only two threads have more than two replies. So much for all the cross-pollination.

I have to say I disliked the idea of splitting it from the moment I found out about it. I stayed quiet to give a chance and see what I think. I feel it's fractured the community a bit, and I don't looking in two places.
 
I'm a big fan of Cakewalk and forward progress, but I think this should have been trolled out to the group here for thoughts before it was done. I would like to see it go back to the old way.

I think we're being pretty lenient allowing people to post what is ultimately spam... although helpful spam :)
We could have just said "none of that", but we didn't.
 
Having it as a separate forum allows people to:

1) Post deals related to software, hardware, or any DAW components in a single place
2) Not flood the other areas where people might be actually trying to get help/advice/etc.
3) Prevent this type of info from showing up in other areas (such as the Active & Recent Posts filter, Searches etc.)
 
The Cakewalk forum is a free community that we provide to everyone, but the focus is for people to help one another with music software. It's not supposed to be a billboard. It felt like a billboard. I personally wanted it all to go away but when we allowed people to discuss this at length we got a lot of feedback that let us know it was valued by many.
 
By putting it in it's own place it allows us to keep the forum from becoming spam central due to custom behavior implemented on that exact sub forum. I think it's a pretty reasonable middle ground for everyone.

smallstonefan
I have to say I disliked the idea of splitting it from the moment I found out about it. I stayed quiet to give a chance and see what I think. I feel it's fractured the community a bit, and I don't looking in two places.
 
I'm a big fan of Cakewalk and forward progress, but I think this should have been trolled out to the group here for thoughts before it was done. I would like to see it go back to the old way.

I'm with ya SSF, but it was discussed. I didn't see the thread that's linked above till way late. And I read the whole thing. A lot I didn't agree with. And voiced it.
 
If you have something to say, speak up. We can all benefit from your input.

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
 
By putting it in it's own place it allows us to keep the forum from becoming spam central due to custom behavior implemented on that exact sub forum. I think it's a pretty reasonable middle ground for everyone.

This is the best explanation I have seen about it so far. I can accept that.
 
Let's move on.

Hi Drew,
 
Re: 1) As a direct reply, I can only speak for myself: I didn't think any changes were necessary, and I certainly don't think limiting the scope of conversation is an effective way to promote conversation.
 
I chose to be silent about it... I thought the discussion was silly and destined to produce an arbitrary result. That is why I wasn't un-silent.
 
While I can not speak for others I feel a liberty to have a personal opinion that many other people made similar choices. 
 
 
 
 
Re: 2) The logic escapes me. When discussions about software stimulated user involvement those discussions floated to the top. The discussions that do not stimulate user involvement drop off the page.
 
 
edit spelling

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
I think we're being pretty lenient allowing people to post what is ultimately spam... although helpful spam :)
We could have just said "none of that", but we didn't.
 
Having it as a separate forum allows people to:

1) Post deals related to software, hardware, or any DAW components in a single place
2) Not flood the other areas where people might be actually trying to get help/advice/etc.
3) Prevent this type of info from showing up in other areas (such as the Active & Recent Posts filter, Searches etc.)
 
The Cakewalk forum is a free community that we provide to everyone, but the focus is for people to help one another with music software. It's not supposed to be a billboard. It felt like a billboard. I personally wanted it all to go away but when we allowed people to discuss this at length we got a lot of feedback that let us know it was valued by many.
 
By putting it in it's own place it allows us to keep the forum from becoming spam central due to custom behavior implemented on that exact sub forum. I think it's a pretty reasonable middle ground for everyone.

Hi Ryan,
 This begs a question. Why didn't you just send the people who were posting what you regard as spam a PM and represent the T.O.S. etc. so that we could continue to have a rich discourse up to, but within the boundaries of Cakewalk's policies.
 It seems so simple.
 
 It seems ironic to me that the new "Deals" section invites even more of what someone presumably regards as spam in the form of postings about hardware, studio supplies, etc.
 
 Good times.
 
 
 

Just a thought here........would making the "Deals" forum a sticky within the Software forum workout better?
A software thread could be easily made if/when a discussion arose from any particular deal that popped up AND all of it would be in one forum.
 
(Personally, I have no problems adjusting to either way of doing things, but thought it's nice to have them both in the same location since they're so closely related).
 
 

mike_mccue
Hi Drew,
 
Re: 1) As a direct reply, I can only speak for myself: I didn't think any changes were necessary, and I certainly don't think limiting the scope of conversation is an effective way to promote conversation.
 
I chose to be silent about it... I thought the discussion was silly and destined to produce an arbitrary result. That is why I wasn't un-silent.
 

 
But then why be not be silent now? Your opinion was expressly asked for and could at least possibly have made a difference then, so I don't get the logic behind complaining out loud only after the fact.
 

While I can not speak for others I feel a liberty to have a personal opinion that many other people made similar choices. 

 
I don't pretend to know what people unwilling to express their opinion when asked might think, but you could be right. Personally I'd guess that the majority of people don't care too much one way or the other.
 

 
  
Re: 2) The logic escapes me. When discussions about software stimulated user involvement those discussions floated to the top.

 
Deal threads have an extraordinarily high number of zero replies (or perhaps just something along the lines of, "Thanks, Larry!"). Any real discussion is the exception not the rule, so those threads aren't like other SW threads.
 

The discussions that do not stimulate user involvement drop off the page.
 

As they will continue to do now.
 
I respect the argument that some would prefer not to have an additional forum to check, but aside from that the reality is that the overwhelming majority of deal threads just aren't SW discussion threads.

mike_mccue
 



Hi Ryan,
 This begs a question. Why didn't you just send the people who were posting what you regard as spam a PM and represent the T.O.S. etc. so that we could continue to have a rich discourse up to, but within the boundaries of Cakewalk's policies.
 It seems so simple.
 
 It seems ironic to me that the new "Deals" section invites even more of what someone presumably regards as spam in the form of postings about hardware, studio supplies, etc.
 
 Good times.
 
 

I think our stance is pretty clear and there's no reason to discuss it at length.
 
We're creating a special case and place for people to share deals specifically about music products because, while it may be spam, some might find it helpful to know they can get a great deal on something they can use with their Cakewalk products.
 
I personally put custom behavior on the Deals forum to prevent it from showing up in the various filters. This is where things will go or they won't go anywhere at all. People seem to think it's making it more difficult, bit it's actually simplifying things. It gives people a place to share good deals without having to worry about being banned as spammers and it lets us cut it out of the message we're trying to provide to customers.
 
If people are concerned about having to click on two forums I think they should reconsider how lenient we're being allowing what is essentially advertisements. I'm sorry but being upset about having to go to two places, as if it divides the community, seems a bit silly to me. This whole forum is a single community.