Not sure about "faith" and all that stuff. At least, not it any "spiritual" sort of way. 
 
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/01January/Pages/Spirituality-link-to-mental-illness.aspx
 
I'm not taking this stuff "religiously" - but I do find it interesting. :)
 
I'm all for a positive attitude though.

Rain
Not sure about "faith" and all that stuff. At least, not it any "spiritual" sort of way. 
 
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/01January/Pages/Spirituality-link-to-mental-illness.aspx
 
I'm not taking this stuff "religiously" - but I do find it interesting. :)
 
I'm all for a positive attitude though.

Hey Krist, did you see (my) post #91 in this very thread

I will look at your vlog tomorrow. Thanks for posting the link!
I am not going to read this thread though because I already know how it goes. It is like debating abortion or evolution... no one is going to change anyone else's mind and eventually someone is going to think differently about someone else. I have a hard time seperating people from their politics, when they choose to put them on display and when I disagree.... I like everyone here so.. I am not going to read this thread. "A man has to know his limitations".
Kudos Paul.
 
J

Yes. :)
 

 
BTW fellows, in regards to the above link, I'll be the first to admit that I myself do probably suffer to varying degrees from a plethora of light mental "disorders" - like every one does ever since they've started putting frickin' labels on everything. 
 
My grandfather was what we called a "Bon Vivant". These days, he'd be labelled an obsessive compulsive alcoholic with eating disorders and a list of other disorders the length of 42nd street. I prefer to remember him as one of the coolest and most lively persons to be around, ever. And a guy who had a liver that could survive a nuclear holocaust.
 
Likewise, a girl I know was recently diagnosed w/ a work phobia (ergophobia). I'm not kidding.
 
You could never get away with that where I come from - my dad would have punched the shrink in the throat and sent my lazy teenager arse back to work with a note telling my employer to keep me busy 80 hrs a week.

 
 
This thread grew to seven pages?
 
Wow!
 
 
Seems to me that while people have said what they believe in and don't believe in... yet nobody has changed their minds. 
 
Has any one here in these seven pages denounced their Christianity? Has anyone here who wasn't a believer all of a sudden a believer?
 
No? Didn't think so. 
 
Faith in Christ  will never be something you could prove or disprove with words.
 
There are people who saw the Lord in person over 2000 years ago and didn't believe him. Watched him heal the sick and raise the dead and they didn't believe him. The Roman Soldiers went looking for Christ to put him on trail. They found Him. They asked him if he was Christ. He responded He was Jesus Christ and all 400 plus soldiers immediately  bowed in front of him and had no idea why they bowed and they STILL..... didn't believe he was The Messiah. 
 
Eye witness, after eye witness, of miracles, teachings and rising from the Dead and people still didn't believe. 
 
We had God on earth here in the flesh telling us the truth. The world didn't want to hear the truth and they killed Him. 
 
Nothing's changed. People still don't want to hear it. They don't want to part with their ways of doing things. Christ gets in the way.  
 
 
 
So Why do I believe and others don't?
 
These are words that won't change your mind. But I believe because I've prayed, I read the Bible, and I pray some more. I do that on a constant basis. 
 
That's all I have. 
 
I don't know any other way to have a relationship with Christ. He's saved my life. Literally and in every sense of the word. From being born again and having eternity start NOW ....to adding years to my life on earth...I should have died in 1986. 
 
Why does he let cancer happen?
 
I don't know. He didn't promise us all the answers.
 
I know this. I am glad I don't have all the answers. 
 
 
If I had all the answers I'd be on His level. If I understood Him fully I would be on His level. 
 
I am not on his level. He's God. How would I know as much as God knows?  Probably in the same way a toddler doesn't understand why it can't go play in traffic. It doesn't understand,  but one day the toddler will understand.Traffic isn't a good place to play.
 
I've  got proof and lots of it that my ways fail all the time. I've hurt myself more times than I can count. When I do things His way i have much more success and feel better.  
 
I am going to guess at this point I still haven't convinced anyone here unless they are all ready a Christian.
 
 
Which is why I was surprised this thread was 7 pages long. 
 
There are three of four people that keep on Chiming in on this thread who have made it clear they don't believe. 
 
I always wonder about those people Verses the people who just wave off Christianity and go about their business. Why do some stick around and fight there point of view so hard against it?
 
I wonder... what do they have in them... what is in them that they fight so hard against this to make their point. My guess is .. it's probably something that is great. Something that people in this world really really need and would be good and awesome. They are usually people that can't see the forest through the trees or it's the enemy holding them back. Either way they are usually right on the borderline of being something powerfully awesome in a very good way. 
 
 
You all have a good one. 
 
Paul 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Everyone has to believe in something.  I believe I'll make another silly post in the FSF.

Mooch4056
 
Faith in Christ  will never be something you could prove or disprove with words.
 

That's the bulk of the problem, Paul. No more than the absence of faith. But the clash originates from the supposed "superiority" in which the believer holds his faith - which acts as its own validation in the eye of the believer.  Your own appreciation of faith is drastically different from that of other christians who've contributed to this thread. And your own appreciation of your faith is what you use to validate your faith.
 
God is real because I believe. I believe because God is real. As tempting as it is to succumb to the seductive power of such ideas, I think that one should defend oneself from something that cheats reason like that - or at least not hold it for a criteria when it come to evaluate a proposition. 
 
No matter what I say to a believer as an atheist, there is always room in my head for doubt, a possibility that I could be mistaken. And I don't have a divine entity to guarantee me beyond any reason that I am right - therefore, my only option is to not hold on blindly to any belief. And if I had an intuition, no matter how persistent and strong, I certainly wouldn't give it precedent over cold hard facts which we all can validate for each other.  If there was a God, I wouldn't feel devastated. It would actually be pretty amazing. I don't hate God, no more than I love or hate the brothers and sisters that I never had. Simple as that. 
 
None of what I say requires any special form of insight to be understood, it is all based on knowledge that everyone is actually invited to question and try to improve. None of it is irrefutable and none of it is to be held for sacred. If you want to believe in God on top of it, fine.
 
But more importantly, it does not require any unique mystical communion with a divinity, which, even if I would not classify as a mental disease, is actually a phenomenon that is strikingly similar to hallucinations, schizophrenia, paranoïa. In all cases, the common frame of reference is bypassed and the experience is solely intelligible to the "victim".
 
Two paranoid individuals may both agree that there is some kind of conspiracy going on (and there is in there mind), it does not validate in anyway any of their imaginary fear. Each one lives an isolated experience.
 
Likewise, the fact that two person experience something which they call "faith" doesn't infer that there is a God. In fact. people of even the most contradictory religions experience "faith" and revelations. Just like people from every culture believe in premonitions, and demons, and ghosts and all that stuff. 
 
Also, the fact that someone did not believe for some time does in no way infer that he wasn't looking for an opportunity to believe on a subconscious level. People can submit themselves to the most complex series of action to reach a goal set by their subconscious. In fact, we all constantly do it.
 
 
 
 

I don't know, I just think that it'd be a whole lot more constructive if we could discuss the things we can agree one without one party trying to claim a higher moral stance born out of beliefs or that all good actions in the world derive from their personal set of beliefs. Trying to find common ground. Consider everyone and put the emphasis on what we have in common, not what makes us chosen people or more righteous. This only divides us.
 
Most people know how to do good - more often than not, beliefs just conforts us that we are doing the right thing or then lead us to do the craziest things their name. We have empathy - most of us do I'd like to believe. Now if someone decides to believe that empathy is one of God's way of interacting with us, I'm fine with it - as long as you don't try to impose that interpretation to me and to strengthen your faith's self-proclaimed authority. 
 
If I look back at all the crazy thing and all the tortures and murders perpetrated in the name of beliefs, I'd say that beliefs are the one thing one shouldn't trust. Honestly, I'd feel bad to let believes dictate my own life. I'd prefer to keep them on the back burner, along with hopes and dreams.
 

Mooch4056
 
 
There are three of four people that keep on Chiming in on this thread who have made it clear they don't believe. 
 
I always wonder about those people Verses the people who just wave off Christianity and go about their business. Why do some stick around and fight there point of view so hard against it?
 
I wonder... what do they have in them... what is in them that they fight so hard against this to make their point. My guess is .. it's probably something that is great. Something that people in this world really really need and would be good and awesome. They are usually people that can't see the forest through the trees or it's the enemy holding them back. Either way they are usually right on the borderline of being something powerfully awesome in a very good way. 
 
 
Paul 

 
1: That is a totally biased observation - quite a few christians kept coming back to it. 
 
2: Why we react so vehemently? I'll speak for myself:
 
Because YOU felt entitled to bring on the topic of religion despite the TOS. 
 
Because if you give yourself that right, you give me and others a right to disagree - love it or hate it. And the enormity of your declarations certainly justifies 7 pages of thread.
 
Because you think that you get to decide what is and what isn't "religion". 
 
Because, like it or not, if you decide to not respect the TOS, some of us will make sure that you just don't get away with it.
 
Because those arguments are ALWAYS the result of self-entitled religious folks breaking the TOS in the first place. 
 
Because you think you can patronize and mock those who vehemently oppose your religious views and your self-entitlement.
 
Because you're so full of yourself that you actually think that we should just let it slide - in other word, that we should be responsible for YOUR thread not to cause disagreement by not reacting to it. 
 
How messed up is that? You self-righteously break the TOS and when we react you self-righteously get to tell us that we shouldn't make a big deal out of it and to be reasonable.
 
That's not just disregarding the TOS - that's showing a total lack of consideration for others. 
 
What you did is the equivalent of barging into a room, taking a huge dump on the table and then telling us it was no big deal - how you were so awesome that it was actually solid gold that came out of your butt. Anyone offended was wrong.
 
If more people had such a strong self-entitlement as yours, things would have derailed long long ago... I guess that's why it surprises you that it's still going on and you cannot quite figure out "what they have in them"... And I'm afraid you'll never know - but you don't need to. You're too awesome for those technicalities. In fact, you're so awesome that you have God on your side. You don't need to be considerate when God tells you you are right. Heck, there is no bloody thing you can't do with God on your side... 
 
But no matter what you and your God believe - if you don't hold yourself accountable for the TOS, somebody around here most likely will for you. Rightly so, no matter how far above the rules you might consider yourself.