Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]

So I was driving home from the grocery store tonight as I was listening to NFL Radio over satellite. The talk show had an ex-player on as a guest host who's voice over was incredibly boomy, so much so that every plosive sounded like an 808 sub kick bass through my car's sound system.

I'm guessing that whoever was mixing the show was doing so on small monitors. Otherwise, he/ she would have heard the ridiculous (not normal radio ridiculous but stupid ridiculous) amount of sub frequencies in this guys voice and would have put on a high pass filter.

In their case, adding a sub to their system would have made this problem obvious to the engineer, in which case I'm betting it would have been fixed.

I'm not telling you to get a sub, not trying to sell you anything. I'm simply sharing with you an experience, one which I encounter all to often when listening to broadcast radio and TV. 

Mike T, the author of the Blog post, was doing the exact same thing.

And I'm not trying to debate one way or the other if you should add a sub to your system or not. Use a sub and it works for you? Cool. Not into subs and prefer mixing on a 2.0 system? Whatever works for ya.

What's important to understand, though, is that those of us at Cakewalk who are a part of the Blog are choosing to share parts of the knowledge that we've collectively built up over our decades of combined experience as musicians, engineers, producers, songwriters, and enthusiasts. 

Believe it or not, we're actually into the same stuff you are and are happy to have a platform like the blog in which to share that knowledge and enthusiasm with you all.

Its worth keeping that in mind when posting bout said blogs as, to be honest, we take it to heart. After all, these blog posts aren't commercials or copy, they're our experiences, our knowledge, and our thoughts on the things we're most passionate about.

So, weather or not you use a sub or not is entirely up to you, and I wish you the best of success either way. Just remember that the faces in the pictures on the blog are people, too.

SP

You are guessing that the show was mixed... which is a very big assumption.

If that show had a big old sub woofer in the production chain there probably wouldn't actually be a human listening to it anyway. That's my assumption, but it's qualified somewhat by the fact that I work for NFL Network television production frequently and I have observed first hand how the radio programming is produced. But, I encourage anyone truly interested to call NFL radio and ask how they do it.


Furthermore, if someone is spitting into the mic with plosives then the disruption is going all the way up to 200Hz and any high school AV kid will hear it in the production chain with a small 2" built in appliance speaker in a rack somewhere.

Additionally, Satellite radio talk shows on Satellite radio are the most heavily compressed audio streams you will probably encounter... do you really think the plosive was "sub" content rather than all over the lower mid spectrum? Most of the compression schemes yank away everything that isn't expected to be necessary before it gets squeezed and sent to the "bird".




A public misuse of logic to support a premise, no matter how casually delivered or passionately felt subverts Cakewalk's credibility.




This was my original criticism about the original blog. It included cliches, bad logic, and made up assumption-facts. The blog essentially told me why Mike thought he needed a subwoofer... the blog didn't even support it's own title, which was "why you need a Subwoofer".

That is why I advise that Cakewalk put together some two person blogging teams... every good writer needs a good editor. If a true experienced print content editor isn't possible then you guys might consider helping each other out as partners. Bounce the ideas around, rarefy the ideas down to the essence of the message, work the thought so that it can stand on it's own merits. Scrutinize the article for embarrassing or revealing misuse of logic. Endeavor to make sure the facts are actually facts.  That sort of stuff is really helpful and the finished articles will be so much more useful both as outreach for Cakewalk and as information for Cakewalk's customers (PLEASE notice that I didn't say consumer).

I wasn't criticizing the blog for it's lack of detail... which I think may have been Brandon's impression. We can see a detailed explanation of subwoofers at the Bob Katz article that Jeff linked too. I was simply saying that an international corporation shouldn't try to present fallacy to an audience that is qualified to recognize the lack of accurate content.

Honestly, presenting badly formulated non-logic as if it is the result of "decades of combined experience as musicians, engineers, producers, songwriters, and enthusiasts." just doesn't look good.


I don't expect anyone to appreciate this critique today... hopefully down the road it may sink in and prove helpful.



Sincerely wishing you the very best.
mike




 

You sure have a lot of time on your hands Mike.

I'd add a smiley but iOS safari doesn't seem to like them. 

Jesus H.

I know....

Jaw dropping.

ororororororororororororororororororororororororororororororor...


Can't seem to make up my mind so I just leave the Smiley WDI couldn't

I like subs, but I think they are aimed at big studios rather than the humble home studio guy. So hearing this from Cake feels like a kick in the teeth.

But at the same time I like the product can't wait for X1d you know that will make it work for me.

Roll On Sunday!

mike_mccue

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
]


This was my original criticism about the original blog. It included cliches, bad logic, and made up assumption-facts. The blog essentially told me why Mike thought he needed a subwoofer... the blog didn't even support it's own title, which was "why you need a Subwoofer".

That is why I advise that Cakewalk put together some two person blogging teams... every good writer needs a good editor. If a true experienced print content editor isn't possible then you guys might consider helping each other out as partners. Bounce the ideas around, rarefy the ideas down to the essence of the message, work the thought so that it can stand on it's own merits. Scrutinize the article for embarrassing or revealing misuse of logic. Endeavor to make sure the facts are actually facts.  That sort of stuff is really helpful and the finished articles will be so much more useful both as outreach for Cakewalk and as information for Cakewalk's customers (PLEASE notice that I didn't say consumer).

I wasn't criticizing the blog for it's lack of detail... which I think may have been Brandon's impression. We can see a detailed explanation of subwoofers at the Bob Katz article that Jeff linked too. I was simply saying that an international corporation shouldn't try to present fallacy to an audience that is qualified to recognize the lack of accurate content.

Honestly, presenting badly formulated non-logic as if it is the result of "decades of combined experience as musicians, engineers, producers, songwriters, and enthusiasts." just doesn't look good.


I don't expect anyone to appreciate this critique today... hopefully down the road it may sink in and prove helpful.

Sincerely wishing you the very best.
mike

It's actually quite good logic and works superbly for me and many others.   Perhaps you're too steeped in your audio dogma or don't understand how different methods work for different people.  I never mix without subs because I want to hear everything that is there and because that's how consumers listen to music.  Like most people I use more than one monitor system.   My mixes translate excelently.  This whole evil sub concept really foolish.   Perhaps you need to get over yourself a little.

mike_mccue

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]

So I was driving home from the grocery store tonight as I was listening to NFL Radio over satellite. The talk show had an ex-player on as a guest host who's voice over was incredibly boomy, so much so that every plosive sounded like an 808 sub kick bass through my car's sound system.

I'm guessing that whoever was mixing the show was doing so on small monitors. Otherwise, he/ she would have heard the ridiculous (not normal radio ridiculous but stupid ridiculous) amount of sub frequencies in this guys voice and would have put on a high pass filter.

In their case, adding a sub to their system would have made this problem obvious to the engineer, in which case I'm betting it would have been fixed.

I'm not telling you to get a sub, not trying to sell you anything. I'm simply sharing with you an experience, one which I encounter all to often when listening to broadcast radio and TV. 

Mike T, the author of the Blog post, was doing the exact same thing.

And I'm not trying to debate one way or the other if you should add a sub to your system or not. Use a sub and it works for you? Cool. Not into subs and prefer mixing on a 2.0 system? Whatever works for ya.

What's important to understand, though, is that those of us at Cakewalk who are a part of the Blog are choosing to share parts of the knowledge that we've collectively built up over our decades of combined experience as musicians, engineers, producers, songwriters, and enthusiasts. 

Believe it or not, we're actually into the same stuff you are and are happy to have a platform like the blog in which to share that knowledge and enthusiasm with you all.

Its worth keeping that in mind when posting bout said blogs as, to be honest, we take it to heart. After all, these blog posts aren't commercials or copy, they're our experiences, our knowledge, and our thoughts on the things we're most passionate about.

So, weather or not you use a sub or not is entirely up to you, and I wish you the best of success either way. Just remember that the faces in the pictures on the blog are people, too.

SP

You are guessing that the show was mixed... which is a very big assumption.

If that show had a big old sub woofer in the production chain there probably wouldn't actually be a human listening to it anyway. That's my assumption, but it's qualified somewhat by the fact that I work for NFL Network television production frequently and I have observed first hand how the radio programming is produced. But, I encourage anyone truly interested to call NFL radio and ask how they do it.

Furthermore, if someone is spitting into the mic with plosives then the disruption is going all the way up to 200Hz and any high school AV kid will hear it in the production chain with a small 2" built in appliance speaker in a rack somewhere.

Additionally, Satellite radio talk shows on Satellite radio are the most heavily compressed audio streams you will probably encounter... do you really think the plosive was "sub" content rather than all over the lower mid spectrum? Most of the compression schemes yank away everything that isn't expected to be necessary before it gets squeezed and sent to the "bird".

A public misuse of logic to support a premise, no matter how casually delivered or passionately felt subverts Cakewalk's credibility.

This was my original criticism about the original blog. It included cliches, bad logic, and made up assumption-facts. The blog essentially told me why Mike thought he needed a subwoofer... the blog didn't even support it's own title, which was "why you need a Subwoofer".

That is why I advise that Cakewalk put together some two person blogging teams... every good writer needs a good editor. If a true experienced print content editor isn't possible then you guys might consider helping each other out as partners. Bounce the ideas around, rarefy the ideas down to the essence of the message, work the thought so that it can stand on it's own merits. Scrutinize the article for embarrassing or revealing misuse of logic. Endeavor to make sure the facts are actually facts.  That sort of stuff is really helpful and the finished articles will be so much more useful both as outreach for Cakewalk and as information for Cakewalk's customers (PLEASE notice that I didn't say consumer).

I wasn't criticizing the blog for it's lack of detail... which I think may have been Brandon's impression. We can see a detailed explanation of subwoofers at the Bob Katz article that Jeff linked too. I was simply saying that an international corporation shouldn't try to present fallacy to an audience that is qualified to recognize the lack of accurate content.

Honestly, presenting badly formulated non-logic as if it is the result of "decades of combined experience as musicians, engineers, producers, songwriters, and enthusiasts." just doesn't look good.

I don't expect anyone to appreciate this critique today... hopefully down the road it may sink in and prove helpful.

Sincerely wishing you the very best.
mike

You really know how to hurt a guy Mike! L! O! L!

So I'm assuming Seth's car has a sub in it, otherwise he wouldn't have picked up on this, right? ;)

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

May I also ask this? What is with the level of cynicism and mistrust that finds its way into just about everything here? Why is it curious that employees offer opinions and insights into what they think is important, or just cool/fun/etc,  in today's world of recording? It's a blog post. Some see evil machinations in everything. If anything it's only to call attention to the blog and inform about Cakewalk and recording in general. It's intended to be useful information for the reader, whether a SONAR user or not.

Yeah we're trying to sell subs so we pre-empted with a blog post about subs. C'mon - that's silly.

Audio guys - artists/producers/engineers - are like audio guys (hi-fi enthusiasts), photography guys, motorcycle guys, bicycle guys, scuba guys. VERY OPINIONATED. Mix this in with commingled facts and fiction, and take it all with a grain of salt. But in any case, don't take it personally.


Keep blogging. Keep offering advice. You can't be wrong every time.