It's a valid blog post & I don't see any "marketing" involved. 2.1 setups for music can be ideal for home/project studios. I've tuned post production/music rooms for many years now & have used subs for along time. No nearfield is going to push any significant amount of air below 40hz. Lucky if they handle below 80hz with flat response.

What the post could of added was a simple setup procedure if room tuning isn't an option. Subs are easier so setup then most people think.
Ideally you would use an RTA but it's not needed for personal use.

1. check the specification of your nearfields & based on frequency response decide on a crossover point.
2. Set sub to the estimated crossover point.
3. Play a selection of music to know VERY well & adjust sub level until it hits that "sweet spot". Trust your ears, you know what sounds good. Don't worry if it's technically flat, this room is for you to mix by. As long as you have referenced it to known content you can make informed mix decisions. Simple as that.

One thing is crucial , when i cut low frequencies on instruments that don't need it  : on small speakers you can cut alot before feeling a real loss , with a sub i cut until it start loosing too much and this is a big difference!! i also keep always a spectrum analyser with me , but i tend to cut really smoother with a sub because the a 5 hz frequency diffrence is immediatly noticeable ////

For me a good mixer is somebody that knows when to not touch a sound !! and the sub tell me that , sometime filtering isn't the solution , so time for spacialisation

mike_mccue

carl


Adding a sub to your studio to reference frequency is a valid point & approach to real world mixing. There's energy in the lows that affects the entire mix & vibe. Just 'cutting out all below a certain frequency' is a bit like saying 'I'll fix it in the master.' 

Is that a bit like saying that we should actually hear the unwanted rumble and noise before we make it un-hearable?

I usually put a shirt on before I get a sunburn... I don't have to experience another sunburn to know about how useful a shirt is. I think of the shirt as a low pass filter.

Somehow, it seems like these thought processes can be related.

What if the shirt doesn't match the pants?
Depends on the material, sub frequencies don't necessarily translate into 'rumble'.
Cutting with your eyes instead of using your ears isn't always the solution, that's assuming there's a problem to begin with.

 Hi Eric,

 I like your list.

 I'd like to add; There is the very popular "low frequency is not directional" thought process that can be addressed.


 For example; my sub is placed so that the wavefront hits me at the same time that the primary signal from the Mid Fields arrives. If I don't feel the sub slap me and reinforce the drive then I react by thinking it has been placed carelessly.

 I see a lot of folks not only do not care about that, they actually take the extra step of advising people that sub placement can be anywhere convenient. When I see advice that results in bass respnse being experienced as a big soft swell rather than a strong clear signal with character and a unique timbre I feel as if someone must have already given up and just forgotten how clear and clean a bass signal may be.

 I want to reproduce what I hear out in the world... and not just emulate some shared experience of extra mud bass that is appreciated simply because it was not even audible before plopping a sub on the floor. That's the sound of bad home theater, not good music. I like the kick and bass to sound like they are coming off the stage.

 My point is that if someone wants to speak about the benefits of sub woofers the discussion can include ideas like this:

 1) What's the minimum quality that is required to realize a benefit in your current install? (e.g. Are you already rocking 4412s thru an Adcom, or are you rocking Rockit 5's with the generic Hitachi chip?)

 2) What is the ramification of placing your sub in a less than ideal spot?

 3) How will your listening environment allow you to appreciate an increase in overall bass response?



 Good times.



 best regards,
mike

 

 

How did we ever get by without cellphones?

Unless you have the proper enviroment to make it work properly, it's not a good idea.

Yes placement is important. The Sub should directionally be feeding the content with the mains. You want the polarity to be the same.

The blog just barely or should I say hardly touched the topic in any kind of serious manner. I personally think the sub is an appropriate tool to use in any studio and mixing without one is akin to mixing using only headphones. Not to many would do that from what I gather reading the posts here. 


I used 5" Mackie monitors for a long time. I saw a good deal on a 10" 100w powered active Polk (home stereo) sub woofer and decided to take a chance. 
Knowing Polk makes fine audio gear, if it didn't work on the studio setup I would move it to the TV room. 

A bit of adjusting and playing some commercial CD's to get it sounding right was all that was needed to get it tuned to the room. 

(I also have ARC in my studio) 

I would not mix without a sub and now I rarely turn it off for tracking or mixing.  I'm not so much worried about the noise and rumble down there as I am about hearing what the bass guitar, the kick drum, and the lower piano and guitar notes are really doing. The sub makes all that very evident and clear. The kick drum and bass are critical in a mix and with a sub, you can actually hear the pitch of the kick. It's not just a thump.  

If you know my music you know it's primarily country in style and some rock mixed it now and then.

Does any one of you who play bass guitar use 5" or 8" speakers on stage? Why not? Simple...... Because they don't move enough volume of air. Same thing applies to your studio. Your mix will end up being played (in some cases) on systems with subs in them so you really should be hearing what you're mixing.  5" & 8" speakers will not get you there like a 10"/12" or 15" sub will. 

Without a sub, even with the best of 5" or 8" monitors, you're mostly guessing to one degree or another as to the proper level and tone on the bass end of the mix. Now I do agree that with enough time and some trial and error, it is possible to "learn" what works on other systems..... but I'd rather hear it than to guess at it. 

And as for me personally...... heck, I just like the "ear candy" of hearing that bottom end working like I know it's supposed to. 

And, I would say that without good freq analysis, even a sub could create misguided mixes. Proper near fields are definitely critical, however.

 
Agreed.
I don't think the answer is simply, "You need a subwoofer".
Rather, the answer is you need an accurate representation of what's going on down below 60Hz.
If you have that (sub or not), you can deal with any problems/etc.

Flywheel


They should be one entitled why do I need a subwoofer for. Never needed one before on satelite speakers (computer speakers) see no reason why I need cakewalk to be selling me the idea. Unless its commission based.

So what Subwoofer do you recommend?

Has Roland designed a Subwoofer?

How much do you get paid for advertising?

Bakers bake, KRK sell monitors and woofers.

It's simply something a few of us believe in. I've used subs for probably ten years now and find it useful. I've first hadn't seen people listen to tracks on large multi-sub home theater systems and cars with subs and go "oooh I didn't realize that".


I had an experience many years ago while playing something I'd mixed back on a Bag End system with an Elf sub that went down to like 8hz or something crazy.  There was this very low freq sound in some element and it was tuned in a way that unfortunately it messed up the bass line when audible. It was horribly dissonant and I'd never noticed it. Granted this was a qquick mix, but had I been using a sub I would have noticed it right away.

People have always used various monitors to reference while mixing (boomboxes, crappy shelf speakers, etc). Today, one common listening environment is one with subs (clubs, cars, home theater, etc) so it makes sense for one to reference mixes on a similar environment.

The key is getting a sub that integrates with your system properly and doesn't do more harm than good.

Yes you can, and plenty of people have, mix projects without a sub. But when you get into the land of 6" bass drivers and low to medium level mix volumes, it's hard for me to imagine most people can here what's happening in 20-50hz (or even higher) area of their mixes.

May I also ask this? What is with the level of cynicism and mistrust that finds its way into just about everything here? Why is it curious that employees offer opinions and insights into what they think is important, or just cool/fun/etc,  in today's world of recording? It's a blog post. Some see evil machinations in everything. If anything it's only to call attention to the blog and inform about Cakewalk and recording in general. It's intended to be useful information for the reader, whether a SONAR user or not.

Yeah we're trying to sell subs so we pre-empted with a blog post about subs. C'mon - that's silly.