Blue Sky makes some of the best-reviewed, best-bang-for-the-buck studio monitoring systems available and they've incorporated subs since day one.  I wish I still had my old Media Desk 2.1 rig.  Blue Sky Systems

panup


On my behalf I was not cynical but in my opinion there are better alternatives for hobby mixers to control low end than just adding a subwoofer.  It will not give you immediately better results because you'll have to learn mixing with subwoofer first.  Subwoofer is almost useless until you have a good, well treated room with enough space; you can hear if there is "a lot of" or "not so much" low end but you're not able to hear anything accurately. 

Of course it's not possible to make a comprehensive presentation of low end mixing in one post. That's why discussion continued here; to give alternative opinions and points of view. 



It's not just a blog post. It's Cakewalk's blog post! It gets more attention than some anonymous blogs from unknown sources. Cakewalk means recording knowledge and professionalism. 

The next blog post subject could be room treatment and setting up monitoring system. It has far more influence on the mixes than any plugin you use. New brickwall limiter or $$L compressor may improve your sound in the last 0.1 dB but a few acoustic panels in the right spots may improve mixes 9 dB.  

I wasn't specifically referring to you Panu (or at all). It was just a general statement.

Anyway, I'd argue that sub or not, room treatment is important. Subs don't exacerbate this  - they just make it more apparent at those frequencies. High frequencies are heavily affected by room problems as well, but one wouldn't not have speakers because if it. Anyway, room treatment wasn't the subject of Mike's post, it was about reproducing low frequencies from your monitoring system. While the two are related, they are arguably separate subjects and, IMHO, can be treated as such.

As it turns out, I believe one of our contributors is actually working on a room treatment related entry, if not a series, as we speak. It talks about DIY panels, bass traps, and even has a video companion. But we need time to get these things out. These things come out in no particular order. It's kind of stream of consciousness from the bakery.

panup

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

There's so much more to this than "some rumble" and it can't be fixed with filters if you want information down there. Yes with acoustic instruments you can filter out unwanted low frequencies, but it's hard to make bass-centric music without hearing what many of your listeners will be hearing. 

You're right, Brandon. I just want to add that subwoofer is not the only piece of equipment you need. Good room and bass traps make HUGE influence because you need to achieve tight, controlled bass sound, not just more low end in general. 

I think it's great you open discussion about these kind of subjects. :-)

And it's good info Panu, for sure. And important for people to know.

Greybeard


Blue Sky makes some of the best-reviewed, best-bang-for-the-buck studio monitoring systems available and they've incorporated subs since day one.  I wish I still had my old Media Desk 2.1 rig.  Blue Sky Systems

I have an older version of their ProDesk system and really like it. the desktop volume control is very sweet.
http://abluesky.com/products/prodesk-5-1/

If you want to mix great sounding bass for dance music take it out on the balcony and let it all blow by you where it can never reflect back into your ears.

Then you can get funky with the bass and get everyone down on the street dancing too.

Just saying.

... and don't ask me how I know.

:-)

best regards,
mike

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
Another thing about subs. A lot of people equate sub with "loud" or "loud bass". On the contrary, having a sub can allow you to actually mix at lower levels. Smaller monitors often need to be pushing quite hard to generate the lowest frequencies they are capable of. Having a sub takes the stress off the smaller drivers and allows them to work more efficiently and at arguably lower mixing levels.

+1! 


Also, since there are a lot of non-electronica types on here, anyone who is making that type of music is ultimately desiring to hear it in a club of some kind, where the super low freqs are madly accentuated. Not paying attention to those while mixing is a recipe for disaster.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Another thing about subs. A lot of people equate sub with "loud" or "loud bass". On the contrary, having a sub can allow you to actually mix at lower levels. Smaller monitors often need to be pushing quite hard to generate the lowest frequencies they are capable of. Having a sub takes the stress off the smaller drivers and allows them to work more efficiently and at arguably lower mixing levels.

Which, actually is the opposite of having a sub in order to mix "bigger bass."  if you use a sub and can hear the bass you normally wouldn't hear without the sub, then you're going to mix the bass lower than you would if you can't hear the bass - because when you can't hear it well, you're going to turn it up until you do!

I am also getting tired of rants about how evil Cakewalk or some other company is, when the people ranting would be devastated without the products they sell.  If it were not so sad, it would almost be funny to read all these complaints when a company wants to charge $29 for miraculous software that took thousands of hours of development and will require many thousands more in support. Examples: The price of Sonar X1 and the price of Melodyne Assistant are both very low considering the development work, support, marketing, etc., and the fact that both are only used by a very small and specilialized segment of the population (unlike a video game or a word processor).  Guitar Rig came free with Sonar and only cost me $50 to upgrade to the full professional version.  Compare the price of RealGuitar to the cost of session players.  You get the idea.

If Cakewalk were plugging a product here, I would not mind.  1-It is their forum and 2-I get a lot of very useful information from reading product releases, advertisements, and feature lists.

If you want to be su****ious, turn your attention to trade magazines that give glowing reviews to 9 out of 10 products.  My opinion, however, is that competition and consumer awareness have raised the bar and 9 out of 10 products in our field are pretty good.  
 
Edit: Not sure why s-u-s-p-i-c-i-o-u-s is not allowed.

I think a subwoofer is a great idea. Infact I have my mind set on one, they dont cost much either and I think it would be an asset not a hindrance to the process.

It was just a strange topic that came out of the blue I guess. Plus shouldn't this be in the techniques or hardware forums???

I would hate to think that Brandon is not thinking that i am being cynical. I work with 6 inch speakers and they sound great but some frequencies are heard more than others depending on the actual recording or CD. A Sub would boost the range for more accurate listening.

If you have an idea which Sub would be best please tell. I have been looking at the KRK subs. You can play them at extremely low frequencies and still pick up the clean signal of the bass.

Flywheel, I don't know about KRK subs, but I use KRK Rokits as my primary near field monitors and they are awesome, so i would imagine the sub is top shelf, also.

Also, my post above is not referring to you, but since people were talking about cynics, I hijacked the topic to get on a soapbox about all the negativity here.