Well as he works for Roland CE , he had the orportunity to try it even in a mixing environnement : not bad at all ....that can be great as a second set of monitoring , i'm also impressed by the sub  versability!

  +
The only sub I'd introduce to my mixing process. A subwoofer could be used to check the transfers sonic "accuracy" after the mix is done, not before. You spend top dollar for un influenced reference speakers, Id suggest only using subwoofers to check your mix.  

Zo


Well as he works for Roland CE , he had the orportunity to try it even in a mixing environnement : not bad at all ....that can be great as a second set of monitoring , i'm also impressed by the sub  versability!

That's awesome. I'll have to check them out. They look nice in the video. Glad they went with a 2.1 scenario with some flexibility on the sub.

Scott Lee


  +
The only sub I'd introduce to my mixing process. A subwoofer could be used to check the transfers sonic "accuracy" after the mix is done, not before. You spend top dollar for un influenced reference speakers, Id suggest only using subwoofers to check your mix.  

While I respect your opinion Scott, I don't agree at all. Why "after" and not "during"? Why does the presence of a sub mean it's somehow "influenced"?

And many speakers are "influenced" by their design. Some argue that some Mackie models are examples of this. (I've never owned a pair...just lived next to a guy who did). Properly setup subs won't influence anything...they just reproduce what's already there. Subs don't hype bass - at least they shouldn't.

Ever heard the JBL LSR system with and without the sub?  

There are a whole lot of TV shows I watch where I wish they would use a sub, because they leave all kinds of crazy low frequency content in that should have been dealt with (i.e. wooshing, rumble, massively over pronounced kicks in background music etc.). I hear it all the time on the news and even on network shows. Is that a space ship landing?No it's just The Bachelor, or Tom reporting live from Santa Monica.

And anyway, I like my subs steamed. 

Is there a 'magic spot' wherein one could place a sub in a 10 foot by 18 foot room? 

trimph1


Is there a 'magic spot' wherein one could place a sub in a 10 foot by 18 foot room? 

Not really a magic spot. It depends on the room, like most things.  Here is Blue Sky's guide on subwoofer placement.

http://abluesky.com/support/subwoofer-placement-guide/

I'll warn you, it's a lot of trial and error with little rule of thumb.

THe Roland Subwoofer or should I say the Connect 2.1 2012 looks intriguing are they selling with the V700's as a package deal?

Here's the quote from the Blue Sky site where they explain their various technical justifications for why they have given up on promoting the idea of clear crisp bass reproduction because they have decided their customers all work in cheesy situations. Their overall advice taken from the other pages at that link seems to be the same cut and paste "Put it some where it doesn't sound too bad" advice that all purveyors of price point speakers practice. 

It's not just weak... it's pitiful.



"To understand why this is the case, we must first understand how our brains process location cues from our ears. Above approximately 700 Hz (depends on the size of your head), your brain uses Interaural Level Difference (ILD) as the primary factor in determining the directional location of a sound (slightly over simplified explanation). ILD is the difference in level of a sound, between your two ears. Below approximately 700 Hz your brain begins to rely on the Interaural Time Difference (ITD) between your ears, also known as – phase shift, to determine the directional location of a sound. This works very well until the wavelengths get very long, the source becomes omni-directional, such as a subwoofer, which radiates energy spherically in its pass band, and you are in an enclosed space. In an enclosed space, such as a studio, with a source that is radiating spherically (again, such as a subwoofer), the ITD will be close to zero. This is because energy from the source is arriving at the listener from many paths, with many overlapping time differences and your brain will not be able to derive the primary location cues from your ears. Therefore your directional acuity at these low frequencies will be near zero. However, you will have very high directional acuity at higher frequencies and because your directional cues are coming from the SATs, which typically are playing the harmonics of the LF fundamentals, this is where your brain believes the sound is coming from. Provided there is no audible distortion or sonic artifacts at higher frequencies (port noise etc.), and the sound emanating from the subwoofer is limited to below approximately 100 Hz, it will be impossible for the listener to identify the location of the subwoofer in a studio."



Information presented in that manner could turn a guy like me into a cynic.

Any chance you have a better link Brandon?

Come on, use your clout and get us a reprint or something from the AES library.

:-)



best regards,
mike

I think of you are lucky enough to get your nearfields to go down far enough then the need for the sub is less somewhat. I use Mackie HR 824's and before they were on a solid wood structure that caused it and other things to vibrate. (Put 40 Hz tone into your room and feel everything  around and see what is moving) This caused some interest previously but I put the Mackies on very heavy concrete stands and anything that was vibrating before stopped and the bottom end of those speakers changes a lot. Less colouration and extended.

I have just done a test and the Mackies in my setup here are only -3db down at 32 Hz so that is not bad. Their spec says -3db at 37 Hz so it is well down compared to that frequency. At 30 Hz though they are -6db so they are dropping off. I have never had a problem mixing without a sub and are one of those that can. The car tells me a lot actually about what is really going on down there. 

If I was to add a sub in then you have to consider the crossover frequency. I have two options and that is to go from maybe 20Hz only up to 35Hz or so and let the Mackies take over from there. (as they do naturally) Or crossover to say 90Hz and let the sub go higher and ease the low end away from the Mackies, also a good option. They will sound different though because different speakers now are handling say 40Hz.

Our old friend Bob Katz is also a bit of an expert on subwoofers and if you are after interesting reading try here:

http://www.digido.com/articles-demos.html

Scroll down to the article near the bottom of the list No 19 Subwoofers and check it out. Read all the others on the way down too!

Hi Jeff,

That particluar article is, in my opinion, very well written.

Thanks for sharing the link.


best regards,
mike