In all this I have discovered that my real VU meters are showing -2db at 40 Hz. Should I be worried? Not those incredible Klanghelm meters here:

http://www.klanghelm.com/

These are a very good VST emulation of the real deal. And they are flat to well under 20Hz so no issues there.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Greybeard


Blue Sky makes some of the best-reviewed, best-bang-for-the-buck studio monitoring systems available and they've incorporated subs since day one.  I wish I still had my old Media Desk 2.1 rig.  Blue Sky Systems

I have an older version of their ProDesk system and really like it. the desktop volume control is very sweet.
http://abluesky.com/products/prodesk-5-1/

I have the Blue Sky Media Desk 2.1.  I really love them.  The whole concept of the sub not being an add-on is great.  It's like a 3 way system.  IMO if it's there I want to hear it.

Hi Folks, It is inevitable that I step in and respond here.
 
First I would like to say that I'm glad my blog post sparked some very detailed and thoughtful discussion, that is the purpose of this venue correct?
 
 Second, I'd like to address in general some of the more negative or questioning comments. The purpose of the blog post was simply to offer an idea or the concept of using a subwoofer in your monitoring system. Sometimes those of us who have been playing, writing, producing and mixing music for years take our knowledge and experience for granted. We forget the days when we were struggling to get what was in our heads to come out to our ears. We forget the times we've discovered something that seemed so simple, yet made so much difference in our work. These are the things I try to share with the public. Why? To be a helpful, productive member of our species. It was not meant to be anything more than a friendly, helpful suggestion. Take it if you need it, skip the post and move on if you don't.
 
Am I trying to sell subs? Well duh, come see me Saturday afternoons behind the Stop N Go. Look for the white van and don't tell the cops. That's my evil, hidden agenda. So lighten up Frances and go make some music. Have fun! Thank you all, Mike T

konradh


I am also getting tired of rants about how evil Cakewalk or some other company is, when the people ranting would be devastated without the products they sell.  If it were not so sad, it would almost be funny to read all these complaints when a company wants to charge $29 for miraculous software that took thousands of hours of development and will require many thousands more in support. Examples: The price of Sonar X1 and the price of Melodyne Assistant are both very low considering the development work, support, marketing, etc., and the fact that both are only used by a very small and specilialized segment of the population (unlike a video game or a word processor).  Guitar Rig came free with Sonar and only cost me $50 to upgrade to the full professional version.  Compare the price of RealGuitar to the cost of session players.  You get the idea.

If Cakewalk were plugging a product here, I would not mind.  1-It is their forum and 2-I get a lot of very useful information from reading product releases, advertisements, and feature lists.

If you want to be su****ious, turn your attention to trade magazines that give glowing reviews to 9 out of 10 products.  My opinion, however, is that competition and consumer awareness have raised the bar and 9 out of 10 products in our field are pretty good.  
 
Edit: Not sure why s-u-s-p-i-c-i-o-u-s is not allowed.

Damn right you are Konrad !.

I just stumbled on this thread while popping by to see if my X1-D had arrived yet.

I spend very little time here nowadays, I just don't need all that cynicism and negativity infecting my day ... (or night :-).

Funny thing is, I come here LOOKING for product news / updates / information.

And if Cake were selling Subs, I'd be wondering why they didn't use their own forum to disseminate some information on their shiny new subs or
other product releases ... I'd start thinking the merketing department need some lessons in marketing and how to make full use
of their resources.

As you well point out, we get amazingly great value for money around here. And those that don't feel they are getting value are free
to look elsewhere for something better. I'd sincerely wish them luck. I'm sure there are other reasonably good products out there,
but none of it's perfect, and there's no "One Size Fits All" solutions in this game.

Sometimes you'd think some of the people around here are worried that the good folks at Cakewalk are trying to sneakily rob them - on the forum.

I guess some people are plain paranoid, and some others just wouldn't be happy if they had nothing to complain about ... so they'll
always find something to satisfy their craving.


Anyway, other than that I'm not joining in this conversation. There's no need. Sensible people see and understand what gives, and
others will only argue or poo-poo, which I have no time for.

Gee, reading what I just wrote ... I hope I'm not becoming cynical :-)

Hmm, where's my X1-D ?.

Happy music making all.


Cheers - Cliff

The way I look at it is, when I go to Wally Mart, K-Mart, any other Mart, Best Buy, Radio Shack, high end and low end audio departments ... all I see is sub based systems anymore. Like it or not, those systems sound different than our trusty old 2.0 speaker setups. I don't see how anyone serious about mixing/mastering could even consider mixing for 2.0 systems in this 2.1 system world anymore.

On the other hand, I'm a sucker for 50/60's country music. In my opinion those are some of the best recordings ever made, and I've never had a problem listening to any of it on my 2.1 system and I'm pretty sure there were no subs back then to mix and master on were there?

Subs should enhance in a way slight compression does. It's there, but you can't quite tell what it is and you prefer to listen with it than without it.

As for the cynicism, the world is tired of corporations and large entities calling the shots. Like it or not, Cakewalk (who is owned by a very large corporation) is lumped in to that group. Couple that with the release of X1 and ... kablooey!

:)

Mike Trujillo [Cakewalk]

Am I trying to sell subs? Well duh, come see me Saturday afternoons behind the Stop N Go.

We have Kum & Go's here in the Midwest. When I moved here I almost wrecked my car laughing the first time I saw a sign for one.

Bub


The way I look at it is, when I go to Wally Mart, K-Mart, any other Mart, Best Buy, Radio Shack, high end and low end audio departments ... all I see is sub based systems anymore. Like it or not, those systems sound different than our trusty old 2.0 speaker setups. I don't see how anyone serious about mixing/mastering could even consider mixing for 2.0 systems in this 2.1 system world anymore.

On the other hand, I'm a sucker for 50/60's country music. In my opinion those are some of the best recordings ever made, and I've never had a problem listening to any of it on my 2.1 system and I'm pretty sure there were no subs back then to mix and master on were there?

Exactly.  I have the Blue Sky 2.1 system and a KRK 2.0 system.  I wouldn't want to do with out either but if there is anything going on at the bottom why would I not want to hear it?  The consumers are hearing it.

Some additional perspective perhaps:

Some of the best sounding albums I know of are mixed in this room (or one like it). Both 5.1 and stereo. Granted, the drums and some guitars are recorded elsewhere, but mixing, vocal recording, and even mastering happens in this environment. Just goes to show ya... 

(there's a sub though )



photo courtesy of Sound On Sound

Geez, I'm amazed at how people here simply can't lighten up a bit.

I know I personally said something that may have been misinterpreted (EVEN THOUGH i PUT AN "LOL" IN THE COMMENT) and now everything is about cynicism, evil, negativity, SHEESH. Talk about extremisms, they sure thrive here, huh?

I own just about every thing Cakewalk sells (give or take an item or two) and have been a CW user / customer for almost 9 years.    

Now it seems coming to this forum is about walking on eggs not having honest discussions mixed in with a little silliness. 

I did think bringing up subwoofers in this forum area seems out of place, which is why I said so (just being honest, not being cynical).

But I must say - it seems that if anyone has ANY differing opinion around here lately, they are treated like rotten eggs.

Come on people.  I've personally helped a gazillion people who've passed through this forum over the past 9 years.  I've tried to be balanced and sensible, with an occasional screw up.

But this is out of control now.  There is so much intense partisnship, accusations, bickering,  positioning, etc.  It's one reason I don't participate so much anymore (probably that makes some people happy eh?)

SO I say everyone should look inside.  Everyone seems to have some cynicism or overreaction going on, i f you ask me.  Including The CW staffers.

Why don't we all calm down and be a LITTLE more lighthearted.   Things like smileys and LOLs do matter.  They are part of the meaning being expressed.  Let's not be so selective  in our reading habits - unless you just like picking fights?

My guess is Billy that people are speaking perhaps more generally, not just about this thread, and not specifically about you. I know that was the case regarding my comments awhile back. You weren't even the first one or only one that questioned the blog post, etc.

Anyway, I definitely know you've supported Cakewalk and been a customer for a long time.