• SONAR
  • How Do *You* Write Songs in Sonar? (p.3)
2014/10/07 11:39:53
konradh
I have a template that has J-Bass (Kontakt), EZDrummer (Classic Kit), Ivory II (Steinway), RealGuitar, and SI-Elec Piano (for melody and lyrics).
2014/10/07 12:09:33
brconflict
johnnyV
Ahh but that's why you need to have a tool for quick easy recording, even a cell phone can do this now, but a dedicated recorder is certainly a good investment for serious songwritters.
 Those little snippet ideas are what can turn into your best songs.
By the time I get up from noodling on the couch, go to the studio room, fire up all that equipment, move the mike, look for my headphones,,, I forget why I came! 
 
I used to use the kitchen getto blaster which still has a working cassette and built in mikes. 
I have been known to get out of bed at 1 AM to go write a lyric down. 
 


You're not kidding. The best tool I use is Voice Record for the iPhone. What happened to getting in a room with four guys and hashing out a tune? I still find that so much easier.
2014/10/07 12:50:13
Marcus Curtis
I mainly write instrumental music so I don't focus on lyrics unless I am recording a song for someone else. I have several different approaches. Sometimes I work with open tunings and a lot of times these songs don't have structures like verses and chorus unless I am putting together a song for someone. I don't play keyboards so I don't use midi that much to write music.
 
If I have a Solo guitar piece, I write it outside of Sonar and I already know all the parts before I record the song. I got to spend a lot of time to become proficient in playing the piece. A lot of times I will start all over again if I make a mistake. The reason why I do this with solo guitar pieces is because if I punch in it tends to ruin the mood for me. I find I get better recordings just by starting over.
 
The key for me is to not become frustrated and to clear my mind of everything else around me. Eventually I get a recording I like. After that I record the song again from start to finish on other tracks. I do this until I get about 4 versions of the same song.
 
When I record an acoustic solo piece I typically use two tracks with two microphones. When I am done recording the song I put it away for at least 2 weeks. After some time has passed I will listen to all the different takes for that song and then I decide which one is best. From that point I mix it. This is really easy to do if you only have two tracks.
 
If I have song ideas that require different acoustic parts and overdubs, I will typically work out everything with my JamMan looper. Right now I am working with ideas I got when I re-tuned the guitar to E-A-D-E-A-E. This tuning gave me 5 song ideas. All of the parts are worked out on the My JamMan looper. Once I plan out how each part is arranged and what the overdubs will be then I go to Sonar and record the songs.
 
If I am recording a full song with bass, drums, and electric guitar then I typically start with the drums. I already know the arrangement before I start. I will find a basic midi drum beat in addictive drums or session drummer and figure out the tempo I want the song to be. From there I will add that one midi pattern all the way to the end of the song or beyond.
 
From that point I record the rhythm guitar parts. I never use the metronome when recording these parts because I have a basic drum beat. For some reason I find that I get better recordings this way. I am more personally inspired. Once I get done with the rhythm tracks I will check them with the metronome and turn the drums off. I listen for any strumming patterns that are off beat.
 
If everything is ok then I switch off the metronome and turn the drums back on. Then I record the bass track. Typically I will write the bass parts using Sonar. I also write any guitar solo parts using Sonar. In fact once the basic drums and the rhythm parts are done the rest of the song is created and written using Sonar.
 
At some point during the recording I will replace the basic midi beat I used in addictive drums or session drummer. I will go through the song and choose midi beats for each measure or groups of measures. Once they are arranged and all the midi drum files are chosen, I will go in and edit some of the midi files in the drum parts to get rid of any feeling of repetition.
 
 
2014/10/07 13:34:29
kzmaier
I write instrumentals with a Prog Rock, Blues, or Other style.  I usually start with a riff or hook on guitar.  I may flush out a few parts or go straight to Sonar and get the tempo with SD or AD.  I pick a simple pattern for timing and record clips of Bass, Guitar, and or Synths (Vst/Externl).  I may record 2 or 3 clips for doubling or comping.  My "songs" evolve if you can call them songs.  Once the "song" structure is complete and go back and fix the drums by changing patterns and adding fills.
 
2014/10/07 13:36:31
Guitarpima
I use the staff view. It's not easy though for it's shortcomings and how hard it is for me to look at a white screen. Other than that, I have no set way to write because every song is different and where to begin is always changing.
 
The only thing I've been doing lately is writing lochrian. It seems nobody does so I am. It's dark and can be disturbing and since I'm a political junkie, what better way to describe the world as I see it.
2014/10/07 14:16:39
jb101
Guitarpima
 
The only thing I've been doing lately is writing lochrian. It seems nobody does so I am. It's dark and can be disturbing and since I'm a political junkie, what better way to describe the world as I see it.




I would be interested to hear your compositions with the Locrian mode.  I, too, like exploring the lesser trodden path..
 
There are reasons why few people have used it as a basis for composition - unstable (i) chord containing a triton, no perfect V chord, etc.  I can only think of fewpieces that successfully used the Locrian.
2014/10/07 15:14:41
sharke
Guitar is my main instrument and something I'm proficient at (know my way all over the fretboard in all keys and all chords and scales) but I'm more drawn toward synth based music of late (I just love fiddling with synths). But since I'm useless as a keyboard player and good at the guitar, I get most of my melodic/harmonic ideas on the guitar first. I'm a lot more likely to experiment with sophisticated harmonies and odd rhythms if I have a guitar in my hand.

Because of this, Melodyne Editor (polyphonic) has been a boon. I'll record an idea on guitar and then convert it to MIDI.

This is where the fun starts. Because Melodyne rarely does an accurate job of converting my oftentimes kooky fingerstyle harmonies accurately, I have a lot of adjusting and cleaning up to do in the piano roll. Either I'll set about trying to recreate exactly what I was playing on guitar, or I'll just use the MIDI I have as raw material which I'll then start chipping away at and moving around until I end up with something completely different. Sometimes I'm literally moving notes up and down and left and right until they sound pleasing and/or interesting. Oftentimes I'll end up with something that is very far removed from what I played on guitar, but distantly related. I love working in the piano roll like this. You can really "sculpt" something you would never have come up with with your fingers on the keys (and often it would be unplayable anyway).

Then the part I love - playing with sounds. There's nothing better than having a great MIDI part that you're pleased with, and playing it through hundreds of presets. You'll go through them for ages thinking "nope...nope...nope..." and then bang! A preset comes along which was MADE for the part. Usually the sound of this preset will completely influence where the track is headed after that, and it is virtually never how I first imagined it. And the preset will usually get tweaked and mangled over the course of time. Sometimes I'll have trouble making it fit with something else and so I'll go for a completely new sound, and the track goes off on a whole new tangent.

Of course the trouble with this is that it's sometimes hard to get projects finished. I have a couple that I've been working on for over 2 years that have been reinvented so many times I have no idea how they started. It's a good job this is just a hobby for me at this point because otherwise I'd be broke....

Anyway I can't add much else in terms of arranging and mixing that everyone else hasn't already said - just thought I'd give my $0.02 about how I put down musical ideas and develop them.
2014/10/07 15:54:32
Guitarpima
jb101
Guitarpima
 
The only thing I've been doing lately is writing lochrian. It seems nobody does so I am. It's dark and can be disturbing and since I'm a political junkie, what better way to describe the world as I see it.




I would be interested to hear your compositions with the Locrian mode.  I, too, like exploring the lesser trodden path..
 
There are reasons why few people have used it as a basis for composition - unstable (i) chord containing a triton, no perfect V chord, etc.  I can only think of fewpieces that successfully used the Locrian.




I just use the diminished chord as a basis of what I do. Sacrifice starts off with a diminished chord and I basically stay in the key. The lyrics are very dark. I wrote it last September and the theme is sort of like the "Saw" movies. Only, it's god talking to humans and telling them how apathetic they are to their own environment albeit the Earth or each other. (WARNING: profanity and forgive the singing lyrics) Lochness, which I'm considering changing the name to Chthonic, starts off implying the triton but it's more of a reverse suspension for the main riff. The riffs between verses is locrian and then it changes to Aeolian. It's not easy writing in lochrian though. I try and use the triton as much as possible no matter what key or mode.
2014/10/07 17:48:32
LLyons
Many great ideas have already been shared..
 
Before starting - I have gotten in the habit of putting equipment back in its place, hooked up and laid out.  This is especially important during the summer when I am out performing a lot.
 
Starting with an idea - could come from daily practice, in performance, sound check, during a songwriting session or the like..  I always have an idea for a name now.  That helps me to focus on completing XXXXXXXX.  I put up a chalkboard in my little room, and on it - I put the song, who I would like to invite to help if I get a sense of what will fit, then a tracking done date, mixing done date, and a to master date.   I find if I can see it as I walk in, it prompts me to get going. The name also reminds me of the emotion or purpose of the song.
 
1 - Start with a template.  4 audio channels and (used to be session drummer) an AD set of channels.  3 tracks are setup as guitar inputs - one for acoustic, two for electric. 1 track is setup for bass.  The effects are turned off - just putting them in there because 6 times out of 10, I am going to use them. I also have the click track setup to run in the template. As I am starting a new track, I name it, assign it a color, assign it to submixes - and put a picture on the track. As I am adding tracks, I tend to move them physically into groups that make sense to me - drag and drop..  The whole part of this in my little write up is - IF I AM FIDDLING, I AM NOT WRITING..  I spend literally minutes in fiddling, and hours in WRITING.  
 
2 - Record the basic idea - I usually hear a verse and chorus in my head well before I start, not always, but more often than not. I noodle around with a basic idea at least an hour before I start. Recording the basic idea starts with an electric guitar 70% of the time.  I find I lay in an intro, a verse and a chorus almost always.  I comp in a few takes, and then relax - time to choose, but most of the time its first take that I use as my lighthouse, if you will.  Take lanes are so intuitive and fit my way of thinking and reacting, perfectly. When I am done picking the takes,  I relax and loop through the basic structure many times just to infuse the idea as a reality now. 
 
3 - Next, I walk through AD, and find the closest thing to what I can hear in my head, or what fits the emotion or purpose for the song, and lay the intro, verse, chorus, turn, interlude or what have you, down - using mostly supplied midi snippets.  I want to thank the artists who put together the midi tracks that I use - you know who you are AD and Session Drummer folks. Too funny - percussionists hit things with sticks, and hit you over the head when its a perfect groove.   
 
4 - I track out the entire song structure for guitars, sans leads.  No mixing yet - I find if I like it as it sounds when it is laid down, when I mix it into the song structure and add audio effects, I really am going to like it.  This takes time, but X3 has such a superb tool set as to take my mind off of the box, and keep it into the performance. Really - when you think about it, you are probably sitting and fiddling all of about 10 seconds in the box and get 5 minutes of performance for each track.  Thats a hugely GREAT ratio in terms of song writing productivity folks.
 
5 - I lay down bass track - single.  Just like number 4, I really dig X3 and how its so easy to comp record.  While I am not a bass player, to me - getting this track right is dead on important, so when I listen back, I always look at the graphic eq spectrum analyzer.   Its a great reference tool for my eyes, and I rely on it because my ears get pretty fatigued after a few hours of work. Besides the Twin and Marshall bending my ears in 4 above, the SWR I use puts a fade in my ears something fierce.. 
 
6 - I go back to AD and add or subtract simple parts like single crash hits, or mic placement - or room levels.  The midi editor screens and smart tool are employed a ton here.  
 
7 - Now for the vocals.  I write them after the basic rhythm parts are down.  Thank goodness for the loop tool.  What would be really cool is to have a loop, then pause a user supplied number of seconds to write down what popped up in my head.  I know I could track the words, but I don't..  :o)   I generally write lyrics with the person I chose to help sing.  Something about their influence in the lyric that propels them to sing using a higher level of competency and awareness.  Its worth it to me to share credits for them infusing passion.  One thing I like about X3 when I get to this point is the ability to make fast mixes, and versions - I think its rare for me to have just one version during the vocal process.  I can hear where the song is headed, but sometimes the singer and I take a left turn, and conversely I have been very thankful that I had the original point a week later.
 
A note about the power in editing - as I take left turns, it takes very very little time to move a section here, double a section there, delete a section in another place. The point is - once the tracks are in the box, you have this supurb editing functionality that allows me to shift every measure if I want, to a completely different measure.  I haven't done much with tempo changes, but there are great ideas that come from the user forum on how to do just about anything except find the talent button.    
 
9 - Leads, comps, leads and more leads.  Performing the rhythm and bass parts tend to be more mechanical for me.  The analysis part of my brain stays lit most of it.  Now is the time where I have to shut that damn analysis tool down, and turn up the creative part.  I do not know where I would be without comping and having loop points.  Its not uncommon for me to take an hour with one particular guitar setup, then another hour with a completely different setup.  Thank goodness for putting the room in order first, then kudos to my GCX and GCU tools.   
 
The song writing is done. I will have other performers in, but to me the parts I listed are part of creating the song AND as a bonus - rough tracks are in the box.  Now Craig - you wanted to know how we write songs using X3, but to my mind,  the vast power of this tool set is the creative ability to mix and help in the mastering process.   
2014/10/08 04:22:16
SvenArne
John T
I very rarely start to record anything without having a fairly complete idea in the first place.


+1
 
I always try to figure out as much as I can before I start commiting stuff to tape. This makes the song-creating process much faster, since I'm easily distracted once the "production" part starts. I always use rough stand-ins for the tracks (e.g. Variax in place of acoustic gtr., programmed midi in place of recorded) in order to get an arrangement to take shape as fast as possible.
 
Most often I'll have the verses, choruses and respective lyrics written down before I even fire up my DAW. Stuff like a bridge, solo parts, breakdowns and intro/outro are usually figured out after.
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