Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Anderton

dcasey
Hey Cakewalk/Tascam/Gibson - whoever might be reading this stuff; I've been a Cakewalk customer since Pro Audio, and at this point a gentle nudge would send me into the arms of another vendor.  Cakewalk moving to a subscription model would be more like a punch in the nose, and if I'm going to bleed - I might as well bleed all over Studio One or Pro Tools (for all the wrong reasons).  
 
That should give you a good indication of what I think about a Cakewalk subscription.  No thanks.

Why do some people automatically assume that if Cakewalk was going to do something like a subscription model, it would be the crappiest, most customer-hostile model possible? Remember, this is a company that steadfastly refuses to use intrusive copy protection methods like dongles. It's a little disappointing a small company that trusts its customers (and put out five rapid-fire, free updates to X3) doesn't get some trust back in return.
 
The software world is a tough place to carve out a piece of the pie. Cakewalk is the kind of company that understands the way to get a bigger slice of the pie is to...cook a better-tasting pie. 

 
Yes, I agree. This speculation is based on nothing more than a survey question. We've always been customer focused and doing surveys is a way for us to ensure we are meeting the needs of customers. On a more positive note, the satisfaction level with customers using X3 was off the charts, which again shows we addressed many of the concerns with SONAR in the latest release. You can be assured we'll be doing the same for future releases. Our goal, as always, is to have happy customers.

So....to switch gears since it's in the title....:)
here it is November already and just wondering when is the new Sonar release going to be released(or announced)?
Is Cakewalk going to mention anything at the beginning of December??
Thanks guys..Looking forward to upgrading to the newest version:)
 

bz2838

Anderton

brconflict

Anderton
If features were introduced sequentially, CW could concentrate on in-depth support of that particular feature and then move on to the next one when it's introduced. It seems this would make the learning curve flatter, users would have a more in-depth knowledge of each new feature as it appears, and support personnel could hone their skills on a particular feature without distractions.

I like that idea. And it would be best to add features in the form of patches vs. total new installs. That way, the user doesn't have to re-download the entire Sonar sub-version.

Again, duly noted. I really appreciate your contributions to this thread. They hint that perhaps the biggest problem with subscription software isn't the concept, but how companies are implementing it.

Sorry guys, I disagree, when I put my money down, I want to own the license, I may want to cancel a subscription for some reason, and if I do, I still want to be able to use the software I paid for. 

What exactly are you disagreeing with? The exchange you quoted doesn't say anything about software expiring, only about the optimum way to deliver updates to software.

As long as the software I paid for does not expire, then I would not have any objections.

brconflict
I definitely like the thought of teaming up QA. What I always want to see is a way that users can suggest possible issues, and rather than having to navigate through a complex technical reporting process and uncontrolled testing that could ultimately result in not-duplicated or redundant, the QA team or Support could ask, "Do you see the issue when you do {this}?" to hone in on an issue to see if it's either related to another open issue, or if {this} makes the symptom go away. I never saw that in my experience.
 
In the Telecomm/Data industry I grew up in, Engineering would ask those questions because they already know what the symptom *might* be related to, especially if something's changed in that area. Having that interface, even through an agent would allow unreported issues to flourish and be revealed where users otherwise would just have no incentive to report something odd. In my case, I became disenfranchised to the response (or lack thereof) to any potential bug reports I would submit. It only takes one or two reports to feel they are not really being reviewed. I know they are, but I had no way of knowing if I submitted one correctly, or if it was even useful.

"Do you see the issue when you do {this}?" to hone in on an issue to see if it's either related to another open issue, or if {this} makes the symptom go away. I never saw that in my experience."

What you are asking here is for QA to do a technical support or troubleshooting role which is a different matter altogether. There seems to be a lot of confusion around this, QA is mainly concerned about reproducible issues and test cases otherwise they generally prefer to hand over to support (unless they can clearly see a real bug in front of them).

The big reason why QA shys away from tech support and troubleshooting is trying to make best use of time, there is a lot to do like testing new products and builds, or testing actual reprodicible issues. If an issue is already reproducible then that can be passed straight onto the developers. The best way to see if an issue is reproducable or not (and I would add, find out if what you and I write is understandable to others) is to check it here in these forums or ring tech support.

I do agree though that the problem report mechanism needs some review in terms of getting feedback. I'm still awaiting clarification myself. We have a problem reports forums however we haven't seen much of QA yet (I better not speculate as to why otherwise people might be thinking X4 is around the corner! :) ). From what I gather Cakewalk will be more proactive in the problem report forums in future.. After X4 is released I suspect they will be all over it.

Dealing with complaints and issues after a product release is not really QA. It is dealing with external non-conformance. During development, the identification of bad code or bugs would be internal non-conformance management.
 
QA in software development would describe the procedures and policies around making changes. How are proposed changes approved, implemented, verified and documented.
 
 
 

To be clear I'm refering to a 'QA team' rather than analyse the process itself. Others may refer to it as the software testing team or whatever. It is generally the job of QA to test submitted bug reports but leave the troubleshooting to support unless they can see milage (that of course is not their sole task). Employeees in small companies may wear multiple 'hats' and do support and QA (or non conformance as you say) of course. Ultimately it's getting developers to fix actual bugs and making best use of their time. Oh and making sure they behave! :)

As I posted earlier:
 
We use software that costs an initial amount. And then we can purchase a support "subscription" if we like.
 
When the support period ends the software does NOT turn into a pumpkin. But we do not get any updates.
 
Renewing the one-year support subscription provides immediate access to all recent updates.
 
Three issues:  mostly not related
   initial cost
   how to pay
   frequency of updates
 
The business dudes who use this software understand the differences, the implications, the internal costs and benefits. The hobbyist do not get it. Especially the way young.
 
I have to have a current license to install updates. The license confirmation is included in the initial installation.
 
And of course, an update will not install if the license is not current.  How can this be wrong?
 
For a while users had to log in to get the updates. I see this as a realistic requirement.
 
Currently CW sells VERSION subscriptions.  For X3 we got 6 versions of the software, over about 6 months. With support for at least a year (at this point). Non of the versions will stop working at midnight of the day the new version is released. Relax!
 
I think Sonar is way too inexpensive.  AND:: Many of us will pay more to receive more attention.
 
I will happily pay more to help the CW dudes to no longer be caught in this cycle of yearly new-version-for-the-holidays insanity.
 
The best DAW on the planet is so cheap that many of the people who purchase it continue to complain about how they will no longer use CW products if the price structure is changed.
 
$150 A YEAR AND YOU ARE COMPLAINING????????????
 
BE GONE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
 
You spend more on your computers, and electricity, car insurance, and gas, than you do on this software.
 
Don't want to pay a reasonable amount for a Maserati?       BUY A FORD!!!!!!!!!
 
I get to play with noises about 6 hours per week. Sonar, Dimension Pro, Session drummer, Audio Snap, VVocal, Addictive drums, Zeta,.... cost me about 48 cents per hour.
 
ALLLLLL versions of Sonar are less than half what they should cost, especially for upgrades.
 
Increasing price will immediately change the general perception of the value of the product.
 
Will this reduce number of users?    YES!!!   Happily!
 
(Marketing 101:  the cheaper the price the more support requests.)
 
$150 per year is essentially free.    Get a clue!    Buy a vowel!
 
Also: I favor a tiered pricing structure: use the software for business all day long, every day, pay more. Just like electric service. Use more, pay more.
 
Don't get me started.
 
 
 

bz2838
Sorry guys, I disagree, when I put my money down, I want to own the license, I may want to cancel a subscription for some reason, and if I do, I still want to be able to use the software I paid for. 

A license is a non-exclusive, restricted, grant of use.   No ownership involved.
 
i figger most of us do not want to be riding in a pumpkin when the clock strikes 12.
 
And I doubt the CW managers would ever make it so.
 
 

"Will this reduce number of users? YES!!! Happily!"
" (Marketing 101: the cheaper the price the more support requests.)"

Hmm if that's the case might as well sell it to 100 people and charge them £250,000 :).

Remember we are dealing in an age where people expect either an app to be free or a few dollars at most, just like buying your music (no wonder the economy is screwed). There are the other terms "elasticity of demand", "scalability", "value for money". Reliability also a crucial factor for DAW software.