SuperG
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/12 17:00:24
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Karyn
SuperG...
This puts me in mind about another thread I answered where drivers were an issue. A lot of companies will contract this out - yet it's gonna cost some 5 figures. In this case, it's much more economical to simply have a driver writer on staff. The benefits, always up to date, latest features, ability to react to product changes, not to mention the customer goodwill these generate. Yet, some companies would rather be penny-wise, pound foolish...
Unfortunately, there are companies* who write their own drivers for their own hardware who seem to think the best way to get their "users" to trash their top of the range, very expensive, fully functional hardware and replace it with the latest, shinier, more expensive but less functional hardware is to STOP updating the drivers. 
* I'm NOT referring to Cakewalk.
Very True! Fact is, driver maintenance isn't like pulling teeth. (Starting a new one - yeah...) For some of us, having been there, we can't help noticing the business politics elsewhere. Maybe ignorance really is bliss?
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DeeringAmps
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/12 21:09:26
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"If you look at their website, they have a section for their old products."Driver updates from '07, '09, 2010. Its a shame really, they made some pretty cool gear. Evidently Frontier got caught up in the changing economy. So thanks again Craig, and sorry to hijack the thread. I certainly wasn't trying to sling mud at Tascam; every product has a window in time and times change. I love me some faders I can really touch; that virtual touch just doesn't seem to work for me. But the future is here and the future is "touch"; I get it... T
Tom Deering Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins Win10x64 StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM  RME UFX (Audio) Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
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Cookie Jarvis
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/12 23:33:59
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I'm with ya' Tom, real beats virtual any day of the week, it just depends on if you can afford the price tag...but then again it helped the cream rise to the top. I think society has gotten so out of whack that Harrison Bergeron has gone from fiction to truth...Welcome to the Age of Mediocrity...All Hail the Mundane and Average ;)
Seriously though, there's always going to be those who demand quality in their tools and art.
Bill
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rebel007
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/13 09:20:42
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It's a really complicated question. If money (and time) were no object, then I'm sure I would put in the effort to upgrade to a full studio with all the bells and whistles.
What I do enjoy about using computers to record and mix music, is the ability to create a tune in one room, take it with me to another room to add another part, then take it on the road with me to work on in what spare time I can find. I'll then drop in to a friends place to see if they can add any ideas. This type of workflow is almost impossible with a traditional setup, so a desktop and laptop are almost as invaluable as a permanent setup, which is what is required once the move to a traditional control surface is put in place.
I guess money being no object, a combination of the two may be the ideal setup.
Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired) CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
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codamedia
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/13 09:37:37
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Unless I were running a full time studio I wouldn't waste my money on a control surface. As we see time and time again - obsolescence is guaranteed far sooner than it should be so unless you are getting your return in a timely fashion it is truly a waste of money - IMO  ... I need an audio interface... I need a computer and I need a DAW. I do not need a control surface to record music. I'd rather buy another guitar, amp or microphone.
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit , ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL Q9300 Quad Core, 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram Hardware: Presonus FP10 (Firepod), FaderPort, M-Audio Axiom 49, Mackie 1202 VLZ, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...
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Anderton
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/13 11:20:27
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☄ Helpfulby cballreich 2016/06/06 18:42:50
Personally, if a control surface could do only volume faders and panpots, that would take care of 90% of what I need. The rest (EQ, virtual instrument tweaks, etc.) can be handled by ACT (I use it in a particularly simple way, as described here). This is why I have no problem with the Mackie Control protocol, because I have yet to try a Mackie Control-compatible unit with anything (not just Cakewalk) that couldn't handle panpots, faders, mute, solo, and record. The protocol is so common that the whole proprietary unit/proprietary drivers issue ceases to be a problem.
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Anderton
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/13 11:25:32
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Karyn
Unfortunately, there are companies* who write their own drivers for their own hardware who seem to think the best way to get their "users" to trash their top of the range, very expensive, fully functional hardware and replace it with the latest, shinier, more expensive but less functional hardware is to STOP updating the drivers.
* I'm NOT referring to Cakewalk.
I had a Matrox video card which the company claimed had no 64-bit drivers and would not work in 64-bit systems, so I'd have to buy a new card. However, I found an obscure driver package on their site for servers that lo and behold, had a 64-bit driver buried in there. I loaded it and the card worked fine. I have an Epson scanner that also never had drivers updated to 64-bit. Someone posted a driver online where apparently he made a few simple changes and voila, 64 bits. I guess what he did violated the EULA about reverse-engineering software, but I don't see modifying drivers for an end-of-life product for a few hardy online souls as being a big deal. And of course, Apple...my dual Xeon desktop is perfectly capable of running 64-bit operation systems including Mavericks, but it was built before the cutoff date for being 64-bit compatible. So it won't go past Lion.
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shmuelyosef
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/14 01:41:14
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Anderton
My understanding is that Frontier Design doesn't do this kind of work any more.
My Frontier Tranzport still works just fine in Sonar X3e...keep expecting it to break. I recently added an Akai APC-20 to the mix to get a set of faders and knobs. Any more control and I might as well get a digital mixer. If I ever replace my keyboards (use a Roland XP-10 and Nord Electro 3HP for inputs) I might get an all-in-one. I would get one of the Korg Triton Taktiles if they made a 61-key version and dump the XP-10 and use the Nord exclusively for live gigs, so I'm not always tearing my rig apart to get it packed up.
- Sonar Platinum 64-bit; Reaper; Ableton Live 9; Samplitude - PugetSystems Serenity Mini: WIN 10-PRO 64-bit; Intel Quad i7-4670 turbo to 3.8GHz; 16GB RAM; ASUS Gryphon Z89 - Antec P180 case. - Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 - DSI OB-6 (love child of a Prophet and an Oberheim) - NORD Electro 3HP - Roland XP-10 - Customized Fender-Rhodes Dyno Stage 73
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bapu
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/15 15:29:08
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mixmkr
so...it's not a control surface anymore and some pres in a larger box? I heard there were quite a lot of issues with that unit...and Frontier Designs decided to help out...and Tascam finally got off their rear ends.
NO, it's still a control surface AND extra pre's. It's also a MIDI interface as well as my RME. I've got the best of all worlds with this combo.
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bapu
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/15 15:31:36
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DeeringAmps
The FW-1884 is STILL a control surface!
Just not the main audio interface as Ed and I are both using the RME UFX.
The 8 pres in the FW-1884 are available by light piping to the UFX.
Its a very fine surface, and really not a bad audio interface.
One caveat. It has been orphaned by Tascam and it can be an issue getting it to work in WIN 8.
I found Win 8 frustrating and gave up. Some report it can be done.
I'm a happy Win 7 user for now so all is well.
Tom
Oh and did I forget to say I love my Tascam FW-1884 control surface?
mybad?
^ This
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bitSync
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/15 22:14:28
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I still do use a tactile control surface and I have a hard time imagining not using one, just what I'm used to I suppose. I've adapted my Mackie d8b mixer as an MCU control surface using BluAudio's D8Bridge software. It's pretty decent but a couple things don't work quite as expected. There's a new serial/MCU protocol hack for the Mackie d8b called ProBox just released by a guy in Austria that looks even more promising than the D8Bridge. I love having banks of 24 faders/pots/mutes/solos/meters I can reach out and touch without having to look at a display. But I'm an old guy with old ways...
Win7 Pro x64 SP1 / SONAR Platinum x64 (latest) / Mackie d8b + D8Bridge x32 v1.1 = MCU DAW Controller / Frontier TranzPort DAW Controller / Studiocat 3.20 GHz Intel i7 950, 24 GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R 2.0 Mainboard, 2TB SATA3 SSD / NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT v341.95 / RME HDSP9652 PCI (ASIO) / RME ADI-8 QS / 24 bit at 44.1 / New Belgium 1554 / My Stuff
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Anderton
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2014/09/16 10:04:53
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bitSync
I still do use a tactile control surface and I have a hard time imagining not using one, just what I'm used to I suppose. I've adapted my Mackie d8b mixer as an MCU control surface using BluAudio's D8Bridge software. It's pretty decent but a couple things don't work quite as expected. There's a new serial/MCU protocol hack for the Mackie d8b called ProBox just released by a guy in Austria that looks even more promising than the D8Bridge. I love having banks of 24 faders/pots/mutes/solos/meters I can reach out and touch without having to look at a display. But I'm an old guy with old ways...
I don't know of any way you can ride 10 faders at once with a mouse (unless you group them, of course).
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BMOG
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 12:33:23
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This is an old thread so I was wondering with all the improvements to Sonar do we now have the capability to use Consoles, Digital Mixers that integrate with Sonar as does ProTools and other DAW's?
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patm300e
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 13:26:11
(permalink)
 SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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jpetersen
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 13:29:36
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BMOG
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 14:20:36
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patm300e
Maybe one of these:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MTi2http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MTi2
I want to turn real knobs, not that I can afford an SSL console but I would like something in that family do mix with knobs and my ears verses in the box. Have the ability to use compression, gate, eq the whole nine yards in my hands physically. I am getting the feeling Sonar is not the best DAW for that which sucks because I just took the life time option not long ago. I love Sonar but now I am jealous of how ProTools uses external gear in comparison :(
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e.Blue
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 14:55:43
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BMOG
patm300e
Maybe one of these:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MTi2http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MTi2
I want to turn real knobs, not that I can afford an SSL console but I would like something in that family do mix with knobs and my ears verses in the box. Have the ability to use compression, gate, eq the whole nine yards in my hands physically. I am getting the feeling Sonar is not the best DAW for that which sucks because I just took the life time option not long ago. I love Sonar but now I am jealous of how ProTools uses external gear in comparison :(
I have the VS-700 console. I also love the level of hardware integration that Avid provides for Pro Tools. However, Pro Tools on the PC is still kind of painful and I wouldn't risk building a business around it. With SONAR coming to the Mac and hopefully EUCON support along with it, getting an Avid console may eventually become feasible. In the meantime, if you really want tactile physical control, Softube's Console 1 is pretty sweet. The SSL emulations sound amazing. They also just released a Neve-based emulation which sounds equally great. SONAR will also soon seriously-enhance it's support for Console 1. There is also the Behringer X-Touch, but for me configuring those generic devices can be a major chore. -e.B
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BMOG
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 16:49:41
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e.Blue
BMOG
patm300e
Maybe one of these:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MTi2http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MTi2
I want to turn real knobs, not that I can afford an SSL console but I would like something in that family do mix with knobs and my ears verses in the box. Have the ability to use compression, gate, eq the whole nine yards in my hands physically. I am getting the feeling Sonar is not the best DAW for that which sucks because I just took the life time option not long ago. I love Sonar but now I am jealous of how ProTools uses external gear in comparison :(
I have the VS-700 console. I also love the level of hardware integration that Avid provides for Pro Tools. However, Pro Tools on the PC is still kind of painful and I wouldn't risk building a business around it. With SONAR coming to the Mac and hopefully EUCON support along with it, getting an Avid console may eventually become feasible. In the meantime, if you really want tactile physical control, Softube's Console 1 is pretty sweet. The SSL emulations sound amazing. They also just released a Neve-based emulation which sounds equally great. SONAR will also soon seriously-enhance it's support for Console 1. There is also the Behringer X-Touch, but for me configuring those generic devices can be a major chore.
-e.B
Thanks for the information but if what you are saying is true then all the money I have invested in a PC is out the door. I am fan of logic personally but I did not want to move over to Mac. If I go to Mac then it won't be for Sonar just does not make sense to me but again thanks for the information
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Anderton
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 19:09:52
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I agree with e.Blue, Softube's Console 1 would do what you want. Also, SONAR is EUCON compatible so it works with the Avid Artist Controllers (or at least they worked when I first tested them a few software revs ago). Mackie controllers work too...there are quite a few options.
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Chris in Indy
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 19:50:55
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Mackie MCU Pro , Don't know how I ever got along without it. An excellent piece of gear.
Chris in Indy ............... Tascam US 2000, Behringer Power Pro 8, Akai MPD 18, Yamaha MG 82cx, Mackie MCU Pro, Mackie MR 8's, M Audio BX-5's, M Audio 61 es, Yamaha MM6, Roland SH-201, KRK-KMS 8400's, Shure SRH 1840's, Audio Technica AT 2020's, Windows 8.1 64 bit, Sonar Platinum, SoundForge 10, East/West Libraries, GPO, Real Guitar, Project 5v2, FM-7,
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smallstonefan
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 20:15:13
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☄ Helpfulby Mystic38 2016/06/08 11:03:22
I had a Mackie Control Universal Pro and sold it for a 32" touch screen monitor. Discovered to my dismay that touch isn't what marketing hypes it up to being. Picked up another MCU Pro and an Extender and haven't looked back.
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schwa
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/06 22:03:29
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I also have a MCU and XT. It never quite lived up to my hopes, but it is serviceable. I also have a transport, which is very usable when tracking. Sometimes I keep the transport on the desk for the Transport buttons and scrub.
I don't usually power up the Mackies, but if I am mixing, I think they're a good (if imperfect) tool.
HP Envy 850, MOTU 424/2408, MIDI Express, NVidea GTX970, Project Studio 6 monitors, Mackie Control and Ext, Frontier Transport Solid State Logic Alpha VHD, UA LA-610, DBX 566, TC M One-XL, POD XT, Roland XP-30 Shure KCM-44, SM-7, SM-81 (pair), SM-57 Martin D28 Marquis, Strats, LP's, Carr Mercury, and Marshall Amps SONAR Platinum, Rapture Pro, Pro Channel Pack, Waves Gold, L3, L2, TH3 (Full), Amplitube 4
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dcumpian
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/07 08:06:11
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Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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patm300e
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/07 12:11:52
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SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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SilentMind
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/07 12:43:04
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A close friend is in love with his Presonus Faderport. Never really considered a control surface as a dedicated geek, gamer and daw nut - odd, you'd think I'd love new shiny toys.
The surprise - I freaking love the faderport in studio one. One sliding / auto updating fader that follows any selected channel on screen with many (M/S/R, automation, transport) controls to hand.
If cakewalk could secure a hardware partner worth a damn a small scale, low cost transport / channel editor for Sonar would be amazing. Perhaps many users, like me, would discover how real buttons and freedom from the mouse really help us in creative moments.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/07 12:53:38
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Karyn
SuperG...
This puts me in mind about another thread I answered where drivers were an issue. A lot of companies will contract this out - yet it's gonna cost some 5 figures. In this case, it's much more economical to simply have a driver writer on staff. The benefits, always up to date, latest features, ability to react to product changes, not to mention the customer goodwill these generate. Yet, some companies would rather be penny-wise, pound foolish...
Unfortunately, there are companies* who write their own drivers for their own hardware who seem to think the best way to get their "users" to trash their top of the range, very expensive, fully functional hardware and replace it with the latest, shinier, more expensive but less functional hardware is to STOP updating the drivers.
* I'm NOT referring to Cakewalk.
That's why forking out some money for an RME product is totally worth. My biggest regret is not having an RME unit. Now I can't afford them. My l black list of vendors keep growing.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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BobF
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/07 13:04:48
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SilentMind
A close friend is in love with his Presonus Faderport. Never really considered a control surface as a dedicated geek, gamer and daw nut - odd, you'd think I'd love new shiny toys.
The surprise - I freaking love the faderport in studio one. One sliding / auto updating fader that follows any selected channel on screen with many (M/S/R, automation, transport) controls to hand.
If cakewalk could secure a hardware partner worth a damn a small scale, low cost transport / channel editor for Sonar would be amazing. Perhaps many users, like me, would discover how real buttons and freedom from the mouse really help us in creative moments.
I grabbed a FaderPort a couple of months or so ago. With azslow's AZ Controller it is a joy to use with Sonar. There is also a 3rd party plug for Reaper that makes it super sweet there too.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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BMOG
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/07 13:37:10
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SilentMind
A close friend is in love with his Presonus Faderport. Never really considered a control surface as a dedicated geek, gamer and daw nut - odd, you'd think I'd love new shiny toys.
The surprise - I freaking love the faderport in studio one. One sliding / auto updating fader that follows any selected channel on screen with many (M/S/R, automation, transport) controls to hand.
If cakewalk could secure a hardware partner worth a damn a small scale, low cost transport / channel editor for Sonar would be amazing. Perhaps many users, like me, would discover how real buttons and freedom from the mouse really help us in creative moments.
+1
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BMOG
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/07 13:37:41
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tenfoot
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Re: money no object, would you use a control surface?
2016/06/07 14:33:15
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Sanderxpander
The thing I seem to miss most is a scrub wheel.
That is the thing I missed when I stopped using the Yamaha 01x. I now use Lemur for android. The template for Sonar not only has a scrub wheel, you can redesign the layout/size of control items to suit yourself.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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