Image Line has the best forum for support.  You can count on 2 or 3 of the developers involved.  They can also take a lot of heat. 
 
As for this forum, Mr. Anderton's involvement, and members, seems to be the solution for many things.  The people at Cakewalk seem to be more involved than 5 or more years ago.

pwalpwal

BobF

pwalpwal
unable to execute, they're over-stretching, i blame the recent non-technical management

OK.  How has that statement set the stage for positive change?  What did you just accomplish?

i'm just sharing an idea (that statement), no particular goal in mind, but maybe the management should consider going with their tech team recommendations, above marketing? (just as an example answer, first thing i thought of as it's fairly common, a regular thing that comes up in modern tech-oriented companies, ie, decision makers not "getting" the tech they're making decisions about)

I don't think you have ANY clue about how Cakewalk operates, who does what, their backgrounds, who sets schedules, and so on. 

Anderton

jeff oliver
If you had a girlfriend that stop taking your calls and stop calling you, what would you believe?
A. She has a big surprise for you? Or
B. She is uncertain about the future?
:)
 

If she didn't show up every month with cool new stuff - B
If she did - A

That's a clever answer. It's just a shame that the cool new stuff isn't service or support.

How come my Gibson has 6 strings - I only know how to play with 4?

telecharge

Anderton
I've often said Cakewalk should do 90 days free support and after that, pay per incident to provide an incentive for people who don't really need support to look elsewhere for solutions. That way the support team's time can be spent on...well, support. Cakewalk's response is they want to keep support free. My contention is that what they really want to do is keep support free and available for those who actually need support, and IMO the easiest way to do that is to put up some kind of barrier to those who don't need what support is intended to offer.
 

I believe you've posted much, if not all, of this before. I'm not sure what the takeaway is supposed to be. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Cakewalk because they have a disproportionate amount of dumb/ignorant customers?
 
The problem is that Cakewalk hasn't delivered on what they promised on service and support (see post #25), and from the customer side, there doesn't seem to be any progress.

Please post the specific issue you are having and maybe we can help. Perhaps while you are waiting for Cakewalk Tech support, the helpful forum members could help you find the answer you need.

telecharge

Anderton
I've often said Cakewalk should do 90 days free support and after that, pay per incident to provide an incentive for people who don't really need support to look elsewhere for solutions. That way the support team's time can be spent on...well, support. Cakewalk's response is they want to keep support free. My contention is that what they really want to do is keep support free and available for those who actually need support, and IMO the easiest way to do that is to put up some kind of barrier to those who don't need what support is intended to offer.
 

I believe you've posted much, if not all, of this before. I'm not sure what the takeaway is supposed to be. Are we supposed to feel sorry for Cakewalk because they have a disproportionate amount of dumb/ignorant customers?

 
The takeaway is supposed to be you saying "Hey that's a great idea Craig, Cakewalk should do it!" If enough people say that, they'll do it, problem solved, end of complaints about support.  
 
Another option is to ramp up the support staff so it can indeed accommodate everyone for free. This means considerable added expense, which would have to be passed along to the customers as a whole. I don't think most legit customers with legit support issues want to pay for people who don't know what kind of mic to buy. (And even if everyone had their questions answered within 24 hours, that still wouldn't end all complaints about support. Trust me on this - Waves has superb support, and people still complain about it.) 
 

The problem is that Cakewalk hasn't delivered on what they promised on service and support (see post #25), and from the customer side, there doesn't seem to be any progress.

 
Separate issues, I think. The promise did not take into account lots of new customers thinking "support" meant free education. Cakewalk probably should have anticipated that, but they extrapolated the past into the future. It was a flawed assumption that support demands would not increase above and beyond the amount that would normally accrue from more sales. But, it is difficult to predict the future if there was nothing done in the past (i.e., lifetime updates) that could provide useful data for making valid predictions.
 
From the customer side, there has definitely been progress. Those with long memories will remember when this forum was packed with complaints about support. That number of complaints has tapered way down, and most of the backlog is gone.
 
I've offered two ideas on how to solve the problem. If you prefer one or the other, or have another practical idea on how to ramp up support without penalizing legitimate customers with legitimate support issues, I think Cakewalk would be interested in your thoughts. I'll also add that while I don't think support should be a profit center as it is with many companies, if there were per-incident payments coming in, that would allow hiring more support people so the entire process would be faster for all.
 

BobF
 I love the idea of paid support.  There are zero resources that are immune from abuse if it doesn't cost the user per use.  Even small amounts of cost will curtail abuse.
 
I'm sure there are tons of folks out there that genuinely need help, but are caught up behind a queue full of hand-holding requests.
 
 

 
I can't really see how paid support could be justified unless the software is completely free of all faults/bugs which we have already been told is "not possible".
 
It's one thing to be asked to pay up front for future releases/bug fixes in software that you've already paid for in the hope/expectation that the investment will turn out to be worth it, even though it might be considered reasonable not to have to pay at all to fix faults that already existed when you bought it or indeed those caused by subsequent modifications, but quite another to be charged again only to be told that the reason that something doesn't work properly is because of a bug that has been known about for years but hasn't been fixed because its not considered to be important enough to bother with / we've been too busy fixing all the other bugs.
 
 

pauloI can't really see how paid support could be justified unless the software is completely free of all faults/bugs which we have already been told is "not possible".
 

 
Well, first of all you already know it's not possible if you've used any software of even medium complexity. So it doesn't matter who tells you it's not possible to have bug-free software, because they're right. Yet plenty of companies justify paid support for software that has plenty of bugs. This is because the two are not related.
 
Support encompasses issues like why did my payment not get processed, install issues, compatibility issues or questions, and so on. The purpose of support is to get customers up and running to the extent allowed by the software, the operating system, the host hardware, and the users acumen.
 
The typical start of a true support call is "I can't get XYZ working." Now, that may be due to a bug, in which case support logs the bug and it joins the queue of things to be fixed. But it could also be due to any one of a number of issues, which can include pilot error, computer problems, defective RAM, badly written graphics drivers, not updating an operating system, a different program that overwrites something another program needs, a plug-in that doesn't follow a spec properlly (remember, the VST spec is more like "suggestions," not mandates), and so on. Sometimes the problem may be due to a software combination, and support from one company has to work with support from another company to find out WTF is going on.
 
For example in theory, there's no reason why some programs shouldn't work with MIDI BLE. So you try it and it doesn't work properly. But the problem is at Microsoft's end and won't be fixed until the next Windows update. In a case like that support can't fix your problem, but it can tell you what the problem is, and what to look for to find out if it's solved. Or in the case of SONAR, you could be trying to run a 32-bit plug-in in a 64-bit environment yet the plug-in is known not to work well with a bridge. Cakewalk's support can't fix your problem, but they can tell you not to waste any more time because it's known not to work.
 
This is why I find the web the most efficient form of support, because there's a shared knowledge among manufacturers and users. 
 
What you pay for if you pay for support is not bug fixes. Support people are not developers. Bug fixes are built into the price of the software and of updates. If you doubled the price of software, the number of bugs would be reduced dramatically. You can't expect to pay the lowest possible price yet still enjoy the highest possible performance. This is why all music software has a significant amount of bugs; it's very competitive and margins are razor-thin. If Logic still cost $999 instead of $199, it might be a different world. But now everyone has to compete with that kind of pricing.
 
When you pay for support, you are paying to have a human being at the other end of the phone line or email address who can answer your question. You're not paying them to fix your bug. However with a good support team, if it is a bug you are paying them to ask you more about the problem so they can reproduce it, and pass it along to the developers so they can fix it. But still, this is NOT paying them to fix the bug. It is paying them to do their part in helping to produce more bug-free software, which will always have a cost attached, whether you want to accept that or not. I guarantee you it is true.
 
The day musicians release perfect mixes, never flub in a note in concerts, always start concerts on time, never break a string, never play a grand piano that's out of tune, and write songs that everyone likes will be the day there are no bugs in music software. I'm not holding my breath. 
 
The entire world is imperfect. People can choose to complain about it, strive to improve it, accept it for what it is, or give up on it.
 
 

When you buy a car you don't expect Toyota to teach you how to drive.
When you buy a Guitar you don't expect the guy that sold it to teach you how to play it.
 
But when people buy computers/interfaces/software they seem to expect lessons on how to use them.
 

Anderton

BobF
 
Faults/bugs don't fall in the hand-holding category, so maybe genuine fault/bug calls get credited back.

That's actually a clever idea. Although support would be paid, each support person could have a "cancel charge" button.

Although I had a couple of faults I reported a while back, that were denied and pit down to my system, and then were fixed in the next release. So this approach could get messy.

BobF
Jeez people ... learn your machine+interface, your OS and your DAW.  Expend a little effort.

^^^^ this, although some stuff may be genuinely too complex for some to understand (think if trying to explain a maths problem to someone who doesn't "get it")

chuckebaby
I come to this forum to share ideas, learn new things... and above all else, Help others. Because that's what this forum is for.
 
I never looked at this forum as a place to come and complain. that's what Reddit, Facebook and your Twitter feed is for.

 
Interesting....I did do same...I came to ask for help in...and then when shown some things I did not know...I dug deeper into find or solving for X....When I found my root cause for my problems....I came back to tell it like I do...
 
Seems I put things on the forums to say what I found....as some do not like the way I say or write.
 
And when done with Proof...Oh..Poof...like magic what I say is removed....and a banishment of sorts to silence.
 
Well...If it is allowed to say it like I say it is....and it is as I say....Why remove the postings?.....
 
Again...I am not insulting Mr Anderson...I agree with the terminologies and methods.....I was taught by some on this forum...How to solve for x.
 
And in some cases I thought simple and direct involvement and witnessing....Show us a problem exists.
 
if this forum be for helpers.
 
 
You may see this as more of my way of saying it....Work around the lies and liars, does not solve for the lie or the liars....if they be putting in bugs...to make a cash cow....and we be the ones who pay.
 
 
If my internet is cut off when saying as I say....And or..to stop me from...or to save me, or others from being connected to, while I post some truths.// and they are blocked from being posted....With good intent, in some perspectives to solve for much.....Then something is behind it, being either a truth exposed not wanted to believe by some...Or...I am a liar, and only wish to sabotage The Cash Cow policy hidden in front of your eyes.
They prosper from....to make you go in circles, or side step, or let be...The bug!
 
I respect the Methods used, and taught me here.....I meant no harm...I have a voice...and a method also....It is to seek the root of error, and find it....If it is hidden behind security and or ULA.....Not to route into a codex that might contain issues of proper logic, and or is built upon a cpu which should be able to resolve numbers of computation quickly...Yet in this time line....That cpu hangs a application doing just that......
 
I have to wonder about the Human Brain....and how complex the reasoning.....To catch a glass of water falling off a table unsuspecting it to do....And then Catching it in mid flight...so it does not smash on the ground.
 
 
If you compute the math of that processing of Brain to do in seconds all the computing to do it...
 
and not fail at all in doing it........Is their error in that brain?
 
Now if you give same to the machine of cpu.....That glass would hit the floor over and over again....Because it would take more time unhanging the cpu and troubleshooting why it does not do...quickly what it should do faster, if all be said as it is in the processing world it can do ....
 
 
If it hangs...and does not work as said it does.....then something is a muck...beyond updates today 2017...supposed to be a new year...Back up what is not working proper only saves the problem if never solving for.
 
 
And the root cause is not with CW...As I keep saying...Like Avid told me.
 
The Process of Support in believing to support...I have done with payment for to solve this.
 
CW tech cannot solve...the code of MS.
 
Period....if they keep changing it...to hide the bug put in...hidden and well protected to cause...Breakage, or mismanagement,...or worse crashes and smashes of codex to hang that process the systems of today should not encounter with such cpus and or multiple ones.
 
 
Home work....I do not code...And if a error be ing the base codex...how can one solve, if you did not do that code, or they will not change the code, or remove the bug of it.
 
 
That is worth saying....and so I do, and am silenced again,.....So live with it?.
 
Trust me...I would rather walk away ...But,...I hope.
 
If not for Hope....then what should I beg?....or solve it myself my way , as time is ticking away on my frustrated understandings of what this is in truth.
 
If my understanding of workarounds that work better....are rejected by the builders of...That do solve some of.
 
Then the builders want the bug in place....AS I UNDERSTAND IT>....And no tech of CW...will solve MS OS codex.
 
Only reveal them more so , the more you tax that cpu....the more you will see the spikes and pops and clicks and hang ups.
 
 
And that, is well recorded here on these forums of such things...if the system is put correctly together, and finding it so, after much seeking a tweak , or a setting or setup that some found to help....make it stop.
 
If that processing of setup, and settings be removed by third hidden hand.....of OS..for OS to continue to do, what we try so hard to setup and get working with CW product....or other of same feathers...And it continues to be sabotaged by Bugs...Blue screens, hangs, lost data, and corrupted files...or just plain disappearing files...
 
I would have to say....it all needs go back to the builders of it...for it is well noted on these forums of such happenings.
 
That said all well to do in belief...method of solving for unknowns is learnt.
 
At least we get that training?....
 
Truth does not need correction, or be silenced......and one seeking why bug or where the bug lies with or whom...and whom support it...so it is always a bug in....is just redundant saying we should support it if so found.
 
For their should be none to cause damages of such cost to the usery user base...There should be none, to cause troubles of this sort today in world, there should be none to cost if the truth be known....And I thought Truth corrects error...But error does not support truth....So,..Believe what you want..is not a option in solving troubles....is it?...So reason was made known!
 
That be said some 2,000 years agao...To repeat the same words...if so supporting something through believing in...and finding it not so trouble free....Is because troubles or a lie is in the mix of the code hidden!
 
That being said....and if they do not want you or anyone else trying to fix because it supports the one sided end of cash cow collection...from usery or use there of....
 
Then you can reason it out proper...If your Brain can count on truth....And that truth is always TRUE...never falters...Always corrects error!
 
To find it, you have to seek the route ...the tree...the first part of its foundation....
 
Is it the Tech of parts built to iso specification of trade rules for?
 
or is it something put in as the logics?
 
 
That is how many variables?
 
And do not over rule the power to do so....Eli..or ELECTRICAL...be it grounded...to something also.
 
 
Best of hope still remains for some....saying, and trying to solve...what is put on by the builders.
 
I am not a builder of errors and troubles...I wish only to solve this mystery.
 
I think my solutions..Be they long winded...Are of a long time with such things being witnessed.
 
So it takes a long time to explain.
 
Is that wrong ...that my long winded truths..be too long and boring to have allowed on these forums?...
 
 
Well believe the lies and liars whom believe there is no bug, and no troubles....and thus no helpers!
 
 
Best of the rest of...Life with or with out.....for no matter the help to solve, some want that bug in the mix!
 
 
and what is futile now?....Tech support right!...but they moderate the forums and remove who or what they do not want exposed...No doubt.
 
 
As witnessed.
 
 
Cheers!
 
 
 
 
 
.