People, do not escalate, there is no reason...
 
@Vlad: HD - Heidelberg
Since MIDI track can have one output only,  it is strait forward to ask either it should be deleted once the output disappear. Synth has many connections. It could be nice in case they trace them correctly and also ask when the last is gone, but they do not do this. May be they "try" to do this and have a bug there, exactly your bug! I guess not many users regularly leave unconnected Synth, may be that is why other do not hit the bug often.
 

bewerber2
Corrupt project: workupload.com/file/zXR52NK

That is all what is required (till asked by Cakewalk explicitly)
 

Thanks for the reports, we're looking into it.
 
Sorry for the delays but support response times should be improving very soon.
 
Best, Keith

bewerber2
deletedContent.cwp (This is the project I spoke about with deleted content. This one causes crash when I add two VST-instruments and START/STOP the playback. Try to add Dimension LE first and then SessionDrummer (or any other VST-instrument) and then press [Play] and [Stop])
deletedContent.cwp.assets

Hey bewerber2,
 
I took a look at the files you included and it definitely exposed a bug. We made a fix to this in the current early access build. Take a look and see if you encounter any issues.
 
Out of curiosity what have you done to this project beforehand? It appears a lot of stuff has happened in this project. 
 
Thank you for bringing this to our attention! Let me know if you have any problems.
 
Thanks!
-Logan

Hi John,
 
it's a fact that I wrote EMails to CW Support many times and I almost never got an answer. Last time was four days ago and, as expected, they didn't answer. I suppose that this guy writes on behalf of support department (or possibly higher) because we have a very sensitive subject here and with his 8 posts he is definitely not a regular forum visitor. So I treat him like a representative of Cakewalk.
 
Please don't forget that we don't talk about an open source project here where all users help each other and nobody is responsible for anything. I bought CW SONAR and four or five plugins from CW and I expect that they follow the contracts. Support via email or phone is part of that.
 
Thanks for your help with Command Center! I would recommend you free PlugIns from MeldaProduction or TokyoDawn, they are really good ..
 
@azslow: If they would reply to our emails, even if they would write something like "sorry for bugs, we received your ticket and we'll do it as soon as possible" - everybody would understand it. But they simply ignore our emails and do NOTHING! That's what people complain about!!
The reason why I make some parts of my posts BOLD is to make my posts more 'beautiful' in order to compensate my bad english
 
2016.06:
He really did it! I can add one, two, three instruments and start the playback! And stop it! And start it again! And stop it again! 20 times! No crash!! And I can create a patchpoint! And link a track to it!! No crash!! It's amazing!! Awesome! I wrote emails for one year and nothing happened! I cannot believe it! Am I sleeping? Am I dreaming? Is this reality?
...Well, I still cannot add a DirectX instrument (TTS-1 for instance) without a crash but that's probably another problem with DirectX, I suppose and I am not really bothered about that...
 
Logan, if I were an American I would rather vote for you as for Donald Trump to be president of the USA!!!
 
 
Regards from Munich,
V.

I am using 48k / 24Bit.
I still have crashes but it is definitely better than before the update. Crashing behavior has changed - SONAR is freezing now rather than crashing and causes Windows blue screen with following message: "driver irql not less or equal...". Unfortunatelly, this one is not reproducible for me at moment but...
 
...I can describe following behavior:
1. Sometimes (unpredictable at moment), SONAR freezes completely
2. I have to kill the SONAR-task via Windows Task Manager then
...so far so good, this works without blue screen
3. Now, when I start SONAR again, the blue screen appears. This happens in a very early stage, before the application startup phase has finished, maybe one second after doubleclick on SONAR program icon.
So the logical explanation is that SONAR leaves something on the system after killing its main task that causes the system crash on its second startup.
 
Since I had the audio drivers in the suspicion, I also tried to start CuBase after SONAR was frozen (->STEP 3) but CuBase (or any other audio application) worked correctly and without bluescreen.
 
When SONAR crashes "correctly" (with the message box and the well-known error report window) I can restart it without blue screen. As I already mentioned - the blue screen appears only after SONAR was frozen and its task was manually killed via Windows Task Manager.
 
Greetz,
V.
 

As noted by Azslow3 a blue screen is always hardware driver related.  Take a note of the hex error code and google it or search the Microsoft tech web site and see what hardware it is indicating failed. 

bewerber2
1. Of course, I already tried to switch to WDM as well as completely different hardware (PCIe and USB). According to Microsoft website I also replaced my RAM and my graphics card. Hardware replacements didn't change anything and SONAR is still freezing.
 
2. This is not correct that software and drivers cannot produce a blue screen. If so, I would get the blue screen also under different circumstances but it happens only with SONAR and exactly on the same place which is unusual for hardware failures. Furthermore I cannot imagine that SONAR does something with my audio hardware in this early stage of application startup.
 
3. The important part of my post is the one, where I described "freezing behavior" of SONAR - not the restart with the blue screen. Blue screen is of less importance but I am sure that you already know that.
 
May I ask you an indiscrete question: Since you have hundreds and thousands of posts and you constantly try to convince me, that all issues are up to my hardware or my bad user behavior, is it possible that you have any kind of benefit from Cakewalk for writing such posts or that you belong to the company?
 
Cheers,
V.

That's quite insulting to people who are trying to help you. How about another indiscreet question back? Do you honestly think that if users were experiencing blue screens and crashes in SONAR as routinely as you seem to be, that they would just accept it, (and come to Cakewalk's aid in their forum)? Blue screens are not normal behaviour and don't (or rarely) happen. Accept that it isn't SONAR and maybe you can work on resolving what the real issue is.

3. The important part of my post is the one, where I described "freezing behavior" of SONAR - not the restart with the blue screen. Blue screen is of less importance but I am sure that you already know that.

From you description it is possible to deduct most probable scenario: SONAR is using some driver/hardware function, it is stuck/hardlocked (freeze). You start SONAR again, it tries to "re-enter" that function - blue screen.
 
@azslow: I agree, this is most likely but the blue screen is only the consequence. The cause is freezing of SONAR which probably makes the cleanup/unlocking of certain function calls impossible.
 
@Brando: sorry, but you argue on a non-factual level.
Regarding your question: "...Do you honestly think that if users were experiencing blue screens and crashes in SONAR as routinely as you seem to be, that they would just accept it?..."
Well, it depends on users. We have musicians here - not lawyers. But I don't want to perform sociological discussions here since I don't have time for that.
My personal opinion (in Germany we have the right to freedom of expression) is that convincing users that they do something wrong and they have to isolate the bug first (otherwise nothing will happen) saves big amout of money for Cakewalk, since debugging is the most costly part of software development. This kind of "customer handling" is extremely questionable or to be more precise:
No, I am the customer and by default, I don't do anything wrong and if I send an EMail to Cakewalk, thay have to answer and to prove that I did something "wrong" (if it is possible at all with consistent software) and not vice versa (namely that I have to prove that I did everything "right").
 
Cheers,
V.
 
 

OK, you're right and I am wrong...Anyway...
 
I'll leave this forum and its bad karma now and go back to my music.
 
Cheers,
V.

Hi Base75,
 
I can live with this blue screen since I know when it happens. I also lived for one year with the bug that I described on top of this thread.
 
I have the feeling that they expect from me to be thankful that they consider my bug report at all, instead of being thankful that I invested my time to help them (remember: I cleaned up my project, tried different cases, uploaded files and described the bug step-by-step as expected from software developers BTW in a very structured way since I am devloping software for over 20 years and know how to isolate a bug).
Plus other forum members try to convince me all the time that I am doing something wrong and nobody in the universe has this bug except of me (which is absurd since this forum is full of complaints about crashes).
 
Actually I am no longer bothered - if they(CW) do nothing I'll simply buy another DAW.
 
Cheers,
V.

Base 57
    "I'll leave this forum and its bad karma now and go back to my music."
 
If you want help with your blue screen problem, azslow3 is the one most likely to provide it. As he has pointed out, it is very unlikely to be a SONAR thing. If you will provide answers to his questions, I am certain he can provide answers to yours. Getting angry will not stop the blue screens.
 
It is possible you have somehow uncovered a problem in SONAR and if so azslow3 can help you prove it and help all of us by providing Cake with a detailed problem report.

I do not have magic hood nor crystal ball
 
I also was believing that in case some program crash, that is a bug. 17 years long. Till I had to deal with custom buggy hardware for the first time. Everything was working fine till final (user land) program was not changed or recompiled with optimization. I have learned hard way there is nothing wrong with the program, nothing wrong with the driver and the "fix" is soldering a capacitor at proper place.
 
"Blue screen/kernel panic means bad OS/Driver/RAM/HDD/Motherboard" was also "1+1=2" for me for long time. Till I was managing a farm with sufficient number of computers to have a hardware failure every 1/2 days. I was surprised that most failing parts are power supplies and coolers. And both can produce "very special effects" in software.
 
When started with Sonar, I have found it is the most crashing program I have ever used. I have started my journey on this forum with the question about "the official list of bugs".
 
Any supporter on a forum which reply with "you just do not understand it" is a (payed) "fan boy". Really, why someone waste his time sitting there without benefits? Why someone with experience provides support completely free instead of doing that commercially? I am periodically asking myself...
---
What I mean is that I understand Vladimir. I do not see anything wrong in his position and the feeling.
 
 

Kev999
 While I agree that BSOD normally implies a hardware or driver problem, in this instance it repeatedly and consistently occurred when trying to open a particular (corrupted?) Sonar project.

I do not know how technical we can go there, so I start with non computing example:
 
You drive your car and then see then someone is crossing the road. You press breaks hard, but the pedal is broken and you no longer can avoid the accident. Police comes and accuse you in making the accidence. But you can prove the pedal in the (let say new) car is mechanically broken. Are you going to accept that you was the only reason for the accident? I think you or your lawyer will contact the car producer and you are not going to accept the reply "you have pressed the pedal harder then you should".
 
The situation with BSOD and Sonar/Plug-ins is almost the same. By design of modern operation systems, user programs have no direct access to the system internals. They are working in logical memory and any hardware related commands are intercepted. So the program can corrupt its whole memory, divide by zero or execute arbitrary CPU commands. But that will not produce BSOD. If some combination is found which does such crash (happens from time to time, nothing is perfect), the news is usually spread over Internet as a severe security hall (and it really is, unlike most other reports).
 
But programs are never doing something just within there virtual space. The result will not be visible nor saved, so for end users such programs are completely useless. To show something, save the result or produce any sound, programs call something in the system, so indirectly trigger some actions outside itself. But design of such calls, the interface is strictly defined and the system side (either it is windows core or drivers) should be bullet prove against any, including unintentionally or intentionally corrupted, user interaction.
 
The problem is that all that paranoid checks not only have to be written correctly, but also consume CPU and so time. In many scenarios unacceptably long time. And so, for such particular scenarios, there are "lightweight" communication channels between user program and hardware, which bypass some paranoid default system checks and avoid full data checks. In particular, most Graphics API and ASIO try to shortcut the route between the end program and the hardware. In such cases, drivers authors are responsible for the safety. Unfortunately, they do not usually have resources nor time to implement everything correctly and to do corresponding tests. How many "halls" that approach produce is the case specific, some companies try to be as safe as possible, other use the strategy "if that almost always works, it is ok".
 
All that was written to explain my point of view:
Can Sonar indirectly trigger BSOD? YES
Can Sonar produce BSOD? NO.
 
Sorry for long post.
 
 
 

bewerber2
 
May I ask you an indiscreet question: Since you have hundreds and thousands of posts and you constantly try to convince me, that all issues are up to my hardware or my bad user behaviour, is it possible that you have any kind of benefit from Cakewalk for writing such posts or that you belong to the company?
 
Cheers,
V.

To late to ask you already have, but as am polite I will answer your questions.

1. I am not an employee of Cakewalk or of Gibson or any music hardware or software company.

2. I receive no benefit from either of the above companies or from any contributions I make here.

3. Fifteen years of designing computer and digital hardware, with a further thirty years of Software development, computer systems and network management experience are what prompt me to suggest to you that you have a hardware problem. 

4. As to your behavioural problems they fall outside my fields of experience and would not feel it appropriate to comment or advise on those issues.  Unless of course they breached the Code of Conduct of these forums and then as a Forum Host I am obliged to make you aware of these and take appropriate action as guided by that Code of Conduct. 
 
As pointed out above a badly written driver will cause a BSOD, as also pointed out above Cakewalk do not provide any drivers. 

PS I discreetly corrected two spelling errors in the about quote but not your original post.

Can you not realize that the people here do not get paid? They are trying their best to help you, and you just insult them for trying. 
 
Let me be very exact. You are an ungrateful annoying person that doesn't deserve our help. Even with this I can't blame you 100% because Cakewalk has really dropped the ball on customer support and has put it's users in the position of trying to deal with people like you.