Helpful Replyrecording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks to control each volume separately? SOLVED

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Malakidreams
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2016/11/23 19:55:12 (permalink)

recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks to control each volume separately? SOLVED

Hi, I recorded 3 separate tracks for strings. one was like the bass stuff, 1 the middle and one the harmony. I thought I would be able to adjust the volume of each midi track  if i did it this way. when I play back and I go to turn up 1 of the recorded tracks all 3 go up in volume. How do I change this? Thanks in advance
post edited by Malakidreams - 2016/12/01 22:58:13
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/23 19:55:52 (permalink)
Im using TTS-1 
 
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jimfogle
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/23 21:07:56 (permalink)
You need to have three instances of TTS-1; one for each track.  Currently. even if each track is assigned separate midi channels, each track and channel is controlling the same instrument patch.
 
When you load three instances of TTS-1, each instance controls it own set of instrument patches so even though each instance of TTS-1 may be calling up the same instrument patch, each TTS-1 is controlling its own patch.
 
Hard to believe but TTS-1 has been included with Cakewalk DAW products since 2005.  Craig Anderton wrote a very good TTS-1 tutorial for the British version of Sound On Sound.  The tutorial is available at this link:  http://www.soundonsound.c...ng-sonar-4s-tts1-synth

Jim F
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/23 21:27:08 (permalink)
Ok, so I have to actually open 3 different soft synth TTS-1? what if I wanted say piano,another track thats strings and another track that  is solo violin or some kind of lead instrument all tts-1? would I have to open an tts-1 and choose piano? then insert another tts-1 and choose my strings and another tts-1 to choose solo violin?
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57Gregy
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/23 22:01:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Malakidreams 2016/11/25 16:53:53
If each MIDI track is using a different channel, you should be able to adjust each track's volume in either the Track Pane or by using the TTS-1's volume sliders without affecting the other channels.

Greg 
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#5
Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/23 22:47:28 (permalink)
I'll definitely mess around with it. I have another question you might know. I was recording some ez drummer tracks and my midi controller responded quite nicely to each drum and cymbal. when I went back to record some tts-1 strings I could here the strings but it would play the drums for each key as well as the strings. it only recorded the strings but annoying to say the most. I just recorded some for ez drummer tracks and they were fine again. I unarmed record on the ez drummer track and arm R on the strings midi track and I only get drum sounds from the midi controller. It wont make string sounds or record them. there is also a blue rectangle  above where each measure is numbered.
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/23 23:11:29 (permalink)
maybe I'm messing up my inputs and outputs for the tts-1. frustrating
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/23 23:14:31 (permalink)
what should my input and output be? I'm using my pcr 800 midi controller. MC 7 
 
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/24 00:13:29 (permalink)
I deleted my tts-1 and entered a new one. I got sound again. still though. when i play my piano  with my midi controller, it makes the noise of the ez drummer as well as the piano. annoying
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/24 00:17:58 (permalink)
so basically my midi control is triggering my tts-1 and my ez drummer at the same time I guess
 
 
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/24 00:30:38 (permalink)
Sorry for all the posts. just trying to figure this out. Now the sound of the piano disappeared, I can still here the drums when I press the midi controller. I armed the tts-1 to record the piano and was able to record the piano track without recording the drum track. I just can't here what I'm playing on the piano until I play it back. is there a way to make it so I can here the piano when i want to record that and hear the drums when I want to record them?
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57Gregy
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/24 09:46:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Malakidreams 2016/11/25 16:53:43
On the MIDI track you recorded the drums, set the input to None when you record on another track. Also, ensure that the Input Echo button is off for any previously-recorded MIDI tracks. See if that helps.

Greg 
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#12
Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 13:05:45 (permalink)
ok, that eliminated the drum sounds. thanks. Now I have a problem. I can't hear my tts-1 at all. I didn't change anything on that
 
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 13:15:16 (permalink)
My TTS_1 is somehow automatically going to channel 10 which says standard set. not sure how to fix this
 
 
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 13:56:12 (permalink)
I had my midi controller set on a different channel. tts-1 was set on omni.So I put keyboard on ch 1 and it worked. the  keyboard was on channel 10.
I switched the ez drummer inputs to none and it worked. Thanks Greg. Now if I wanted to record three separate tts1 string midi tracks and control each of their volumes separately, how would I do that?
 
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abacab
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 15:52:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Malakidreams 2016/11/25 16:53:32
Malakidreams
Hi, I recorded 3 separate tracks for strings. one was like the bass stuff, 1 the middle and one the harmony. I thought I would be able to adjust the volume of each midi track  if i did it this way. when I play back and I go to turn up 1 of the recorded tracks all 3 go up in volume. How do I change this? Thanks in advance



The simple answer is to adjust the MIDI volume slider for each MIDI track you wish to adjust.
 
But the good news is that TTS-1 is multi-output, in addition to multi-timbral.  It has four audio outputs that you can group your instruments together into.  This allows separating your bass or drums from the other instruments for output to your audio master.  That way you can apply individual audio FX to each of the four audio outputs.
 
This works in Sonar, so I would assume it applies to Music Creator. http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Music%20Creator%207&language=3&help=SoftSynths.04.html
 
When you insert TTS-1 with the Insert > Soft Synths command, select "all synth audio outputs".  You will get one MIDI track and 4 stereo audio tracks.  (The Insert Soft Synth Options dialog box appears, unless you’ve previously unchecked the Ask This Every Time check box that’s in the dialog box. If you have, Music Creator inserts the soft synth according to the preferences you set the last time you used the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog box. If you need to open the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog box when it’s hidden, click the Insert Soft Synth Options button in the Synth Rack.)
 
Each of the four new audio tracks should have been assigned to Input=Cakewalk TTS-1 Output 1, 2, 3, or 4, respectively.
 
Then look into the TTS-1 System Settings window. Click on System > Option > Output Assign.  There you will see that you can select any of the available outputs for any of the 16 MIDI tracks in TTS-1.
 
Then on your MIDI track in track view. select your inputs and outputs, for example: Input=All Inputs-Omni, Output=1-Cakewalk TTS-1 1, and for MIDI Channel = [choose from 1-16, depending on which instrument you want to trigger].
 
If you want to record each MIDI instrument onto it's own MIDI track, you can clone the first MIDI track as many times as you need and adjust the inputs and outputs accordingly based on the example so that your MIDI data is recorded on each of their respective tracks. 

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#16
Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 16:53:36 (permalink)
Thanks so much  John. I am going to play around with this ASAP. This forum is awesome.
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Cactus Music
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 19:08:37 (permalink)
Channel 10 has always been the default drum channel. I would leave that as is. 
 
I think you solved your other questions but just to make sure it's clear.
 
With the TTS-1 you can have 16 channels of instruments, This is called "Multi-timbral"   The answer by Jimfogel was incorrect. Most of Cakewalks VST instruments are not multi timbral  and require a new instance per instrument, but TTS_1 was made to play back GM standard files and GM Midi supports 16 channels.  
 
It's a very powerful little synth. It's downside is the sound quality is pretty basic and better sounding synths can be found as you progress. Many are even free to download and real easy to install. 
The web site KVR has many freebies.  But even though I have a lot of VST's hoarded away I use TTS-1 on almost every song. The Kick drum is actually my go to kick as I find it sits perfectly in a mix. I use the organs and a lot of percussion sounds are not found on the fancy pants drum synths like Session drummer. 
 
I don't use instrument tracks. 
 
I insert a new MIDI track and record the part there. 
The synth audio tracks are separate and have nothing in their tracks. 
All my midi tracks will have my A49 as the input, no need to change this, it's the input echo that will cause the re triggering of other channels.  
You can set it to none but this should not be necessary.
Only echo the track you are recording, turn the others off. 
Then set the output of the track to the synth you desire
Then set the MIDI channel to the channel desired to use on the TTS_1
Other non multitimberal  synths can  just use Channel 1 but will also play any channel coming at them.
 
I have set up my "band" in TTS-1 and you can save it as a default patch. Just click on the uper box that say's "no preset" and type a new name and save it.
I always use the same channels for certain instruments, this goes way back to using a rack of hardware synths.
CH1- Piano
CH2- El Piano
CH3 and 4 organs
CH5 Bass
CH 6 strings
CH 7 woodwinds
CH 10 drums
 
CH 11 percussion
CH 13- 15 controlled my effects  
other channels used at random for synths 
 
 
 

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abacab
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 19:55:31 (permalink)
Malakidreams
Thanks so much  John. I am going to play around with this ASAP. This forum is awesome.




Good luck and have fun!
 
1 instance of TTS-1 is all you need to accomplish a recording with up to 16 MIDI tracks.  Just set up a MIDI track in Cakewalk for each instrument in your "band", and route it to the MIDI channel corresponding to that instrument in TTS-1.
 
The MIDI volume sliders will allow you to adjust the volume track by track.  By default all of the audio output from TTS-1 synth will return to the master stereo audio output.
 
The other stuff about the 4 audio outputs just gives you more routing and mixing options when you are ready to use them.  If you do this, you can EQ and add FX for each audio output individually before routing it on to the master stereo output.
 
Craig Anderton recently mentioned that he still uses TTS-1 because he prefers the way some of the instruments sit in his final mixes over some of the newer high end sample based instruments.

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jimfogle
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 22:35:59 (permalink)
57Gregy
If each MIDI track is using a different channel, you should be able to adjust each track's volume in either the Track Pane or by using the TTS-1's volume sliders without affecting the other channels.




Gregy,
 
I believe you're correct as long as the three tracks have three channels with a different midi instrument patch on each channel.  But, if you are using three instances of the same midi instrument patch, I believe changing the volume of one track changes the volume of all three tracks. 

Jim F
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abacab
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/25 23:44:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/11/26 12:36:50
jimfogle
57Gregy
If each MIDI track is using a different channel, you should be able to adjust each track's volume in either the Track Pane or by using the TTS-1's volume sliders without affecting the other channels.




Gregy,
 
I believe you're correct as long as the three tracks have three channels with a different midi instrument patch on each channel.  But, if you are using three instances of the same midi instrument patch, I believe changing the volume of one track changes the volume of all three tracks. 




If you are referring to the audio output from TTS-1, if all of the MIDI instruments are output to the same audio output, and you then adjust only that audio output, they will be adjusted as a group on that audio output.
 
But you can set the MIDI volume before that stage at each MIDI track using the MIDI volume sliders.  MIDI volume can be 0-127, and affects the output level from each instrument sound.

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57Gregy
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/26 09:52:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/11/26 12:37:06
jimfogle
57Gregy
If each MIDI track is using a different channel, you should be able to adjust each track's volume in either the Track Pane or by using the TTS-1's volume sliders without affecting the other channels.




Gregy,
 
I believe you're correct as long as the three tracks have three channels with a different midi instrument patch on each channel.  But, if you are using three instances of the same midi instrument patch, I believe changing the volume of one track changes the volume of all three tracks. 




Perhaps it's patch-specific, but I just did a quick check with TTS-1 and X3 using 3 tracks on different channels and the Piano 1 patch on each track. When changing the volume of 1 track, it did not affect the volumes of the other tracks.

Greg 
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jimfogle
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/26 12:47:55 (permalink)
Greg,
 
Thank you for verifying.  I'm sorry I provided incorrect information and challenged your response without a good  reason.
 
This conversation does indicate how amazing it is that so many people still regularly use a twelve year old (2005) virtual instrument.
 
I'm glad Malalidreams questions have been answered.  This forum has so many people willing to share their knowledge.

Jim F
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/26 21:28:07 (permalink)
Thanks for the responses. I appreciate it. There is definitely a learning curve for this. Thanks so much. I will play around with this later tonight :)
 
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/27 00:21:56 (permalink)
New problem. I enter the tts-1. I select midi source, synth track folder, first synth audio output and synth property page.
I insert a mid track. I change the input to all inputs mid ch 1
I change the output to tts-1. I get sound. I go to patch browser to change the instrument to violin or whatever and it doesn't change
I inserted another midi track to see if it would work the same way but put input to all input midi 2 and output to
tts-1. I switched my midi controller to midi channel 2 and got sound.
I click on patch Browser to change the instrument and nothing again.
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57Gregy
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/27 09:49:04 (permalink)
I don't know what the patch browser is, but with TTS-1 (being a General MIDI synth), you change the patch in the MIDI track pane, not in the TTS-1 GUI.

Greg 
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Malakidreams
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/27 14:26:11 (permalink)
I'm not sure how to post a picture.
On the left of the track it says FX +
below that R W M S 
below that pan. then volume.
to the right it says snap to scale 
below input quantize. below that Keys then Time then below is Patch Browser.
I click on patch browser and it allows me to select an instrument.
I guess this isn't how you change the sound?
where do you go for that?
 
 
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Musicman762
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/27 14:47:52 (permalink)
There is a problem with TTS-1 and certain audio/PC configurations. It is a 32 bit application and WILL NOT play certain sounds unless you go into SYSTEM/OPTIONS in the TTS-1 settings and change the processor from advanced to simple. I am not at my PC right now, so I am unsure of the exact wording but it should be a checbox option.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/27 20:20:37 (permalink)
This is from my web site.  You need to learn about the channels in TTS-1 and once you do, you will be able to run 16 different patches on one instance of TTS-1. You will be able to have different instruments and set their volumes as needed.     Note...FR refers to my interface.... FocusRite. Use your interface for this step when mine is mentioned. ALSO.... note that on the INPUT, I am selecting channel 6 because that's the channel my midi piano sends it's data on. If yours uses a different channel or OMNI, you need to select that one.
 
So... here's the page from my site:
 
ADVANCED TTS set up and operation.

You only need one instance of TTS to be able to play 16 different midi tracks as 16 different instruments. In this demo I will explain just how you accomplish this by starting with 3 midi tracks and one instance of TTS.

So…open a new project ( I opened a normal project and deleted the audio track and then inserted the midi tracks needed and then inserted the soft synth) and insert 3 midi tracks and one instance of TTS. I have:
 Track 1 midi piano
 Track 2 midi bass
 Track 3 midi strings
 Track 4 Cakewalk TTS1-1 (audio track this is where TTS lives in this project)

Use the track icons…it makes it ease to know what track you are working on.


Understand that this is just a basic setup of TTS to show you how to setup multiple instruments in one instance of TTS and get it all working.

Set Track 1 (piano)

Input FR channel 6
Output 2-Cakewalk TTS1-1
Channel 1
Key 0
Bank & patch = piano

Set track 2 (bass)

Input FR channel 6
Output 2-Cakewalk TTS1-1
Channel 2
Key -12
Bank & patch = bass

Set track 3 (strings)

Input FR channel 6
Output 2 Cakewalk TTS1-1
Channel 3
Key 0
Bank & patch = strings


A NOTE about my set up..... Notice that all 3 tracks are using the same input....FR channel 6. (Focusrite=FR) This allows all three channels to “hear” the midi keyboard which I have set to transmit on channel 6.
I could set each channel input to a different channel. By doing so I have to change the midi keyboard to transmit on that channel....none of the other channels will hear it, and that can be very useful in recording as you will see shortly.

By setting all 3 channels to the same midi input channel (channel 6) I am able to play all the parts into the three channels with out changing the midi transmit channel on my DX27S. I arm track 1 and record my parts doing the same for the next two tracks. Since the outputs are set to different channels they are sending their midi data to different channels in the TTS synth. The synth looks at the channel number, and routs that data to that channel and applied the patch & bank info you assigned to it and it carries out those instructions. The result is that you hear 3 different instruments playing from your speakers.


 
 
SO... if you did that correctly, you should have been successful in setting up TTS to play the instruments and be able to control them as you needed.

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#29
Musicman762
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Re: recording 3 different tts-1 strings patch tracks so I can control each volume separate 2016/11/27 21:08:47 (permalink)
I believe someone already mentioned rebooting your PC, but did you do it before you tried executing Sonar in safe mode?

If you open up task manager, you should only see one version of sonarplt.exe running. Sometimes when Sonar hangs, I've noticed that trying to run it again opens multiple processes, none of which will work. I usually kill all running instances and reboot.

The only recommendation I have left is to try that, and reboot your PC. Then execute Sonar in safe mode, as I described earlier (With the shift key). When asked (if you get that far), load the app with no plugins (There should be a dialog that allows you to cancel everything all at once). Aside from that and a hard drive issue, I've got nothing else. Running Sonar in 32 bit mode is not the answer, because without doubt Sonar 63B should run in a 64 B Windows 10 machine...

The reference I made to 32B was in reference to TTS-1, because it is a 32B plugin and it won't run using bitbridge on a 64 B machine, without changing the processor setting.
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