looking at the guide to my tubepre, it says it already has a 12ax7. i've only had it for a year and a half and haven't used it that much (however i've left it plugged in for extended periods of time). i don't think the quality has gone down. however i will email them and see if they've got any suggestions on an upgrade.

My tube had about an hour on it. I hooked it up and the unit reeked. Now I don't expect it to be like my $1000 pres, but at least of use for something. So it went back in its box for months untill I did the tube mod, now it gets used for a variety of things. What the problem is, is that it comes stock with a crummy tube (cost saving?). So a better one, made the difference. That was all I did to it, and it is not the same unit sonically at all. What happens when you plug the 58 direct into the Mackie pres? Some people really like those pres. I would not know, never owned any........................

ORIGINAL: johndale

looking at the guide to my tubepre, it says it already has a 12ax7. i've only had it for a year and a half and haven't used it that much (however i've left it plugged in for extended periods of time). i don't think the quality has gone down. however i will email them and see if they've got any suggestions on an upgrade.

My tube had about an hour on it. I hooked it up and the unit reeked. Now I don't expect it to be like my $1000 pres, but at least of use for something. So it went back in its box for months untill I did the tube mod, now it gets used for a variety of things. What the problem is, is that it comes stock with a crummy tube (cost saving?). So a better one, made the difference. That was all I did to it, and it is not the same unit sonically at all. What happens when you plug the 58 direct into the Mackie pres? Some people really like those pres. I would not know, never owned any........................

ok. i'll have to try swapping the tube to see if it gets better. i tried plugging the 58 into the mackie directly, with similar gain results - the mackie perhaps is a little better. however without going directly from the tubepre to my soundcard it's not a real test. my gut says that the mackie is quieter though.

i don't have these problems with my vocals. so maybe it's the guitar as bso suggests. i'm saving up for a taylor or a martin (or whatever nice acoustic sounds awesome when i finally gather the grand and a half or so). the ovation has served me well as a first guitar (for the last 7 years) but i want a real wood tone.

i will update this thread when the mics get here and keep you all posted.

krizrox I agree with you on the ovation topic, nice little guitars , good action , good for club work, easy to use. Not so good with a mic.
One day while working behind the guitar counter at Mannys Music in NYC I looked over and saw a guy who was trying to get my attention. He looked just like George Harrison , but the store was crowded. ( said to myself nah can't be)
I looked over to my left and saw Alan Rogan ( Stones Road Manger at the time) and he gave me a nod as to yes thats who you think it is.
The good news is , it was George Harrision and I got to talk with him for about 5 or 10 mins.
Realy Sweet Man .
The thing he wanted to know was what did I think about using an Ovation for recording using a mic. I couldn't beleive in a crowded store nobody knew it was him, I did tell him that I thought they played OK but he would be better off using what he had available from some of his nice wooden guitars and using a decent studio mic.
True Story . off topic regarding the SM 57 , but lots of guys find Ovations to have some kinda built in MUSE.

jacktheexcynic G.... sure liked the Ovation enough to ask the question, (lucky for me to have met him ).

I went out and bought a AKG perception 200 6 months ago.( made for guitar center in China )
It was a good mic to have on hand for some of my intended uses.
( none of which I can do where I live ) With all the windows shut , refrig unpluged and at 2 or 3 am my acoustic never sounded better, trouble is so do the cars driving by.

This is one reason I have been checking in on your thread.

Like yourself I have an acoustic guitar that ain't exactly a Martin yet I am fond of it and I have no desire to ever get rid of it. Not even for a high end acoustic.
The music I enjoy playing the most is fingerstyle jazz and blues . I cant record it at home so I can't post it.
Ovations Are Great for fingerstlye guitar. A real Work Horse instrument, good for all styles of music.
My acoustic guitar is a Washburn , the same model Jewel plays , but in red. I got it in 95.
I could have bought a more traditional box but it would not of served the needs I had at the time. I Sh**t canned the peizo and mounted a permanant sound hole Dimarzio humbucker and wired a vol knob. When I play out it is pluged into a 66 Fender Vibrolux.( rules are meant to be broken, never had a purist complain , it's more like what was that chord you played ....) lol
Yeah something for about a Grand and change might sound better but I don't need to fight the action to play my stuff.
A Tear For You and A Country Shade Of Blue are some of the songs I used the Washburn on.
Sure they could sound a lot better , recording wise , and tone wise but I am convinced that I could not play how I play on a Martin or Clone ,(not with out a few mods ) .
An Archtop would suite me better. ( had a few in the past, time to get another )
I'm getting ready to move out of my current area, and every day I want to walk into Guitar Center and buy a SM 57 . Don't want to leave myself short on move money. So I got a case of The White Knuckles.

BTW if it sounds good on an acoustic it probaly sounds good on anything. Not usualy the case the other way around.

In case you are interested I just posted a song called Someday I Will love Again over in the song forum . The acoustic solo version might be of some interest , that has my Washburn on it.

ORIGINAL: krizrox



I can't remember the last time I miked an Ovation (if ever). They just don't sound good miked (someone will disagree I'm sure )

I love my Ovation !....it's a 12 string that i've had strung as a 6 probably half of it's life. It's maybe the best playing acoustic I've ever played. It has ovations early Piezo pre-amps....nothing but a single volume knob. the pick-up sound is pretty attrotious ...but in it's day it was the only game in town I think. The only way to get something usable really is to mic it .. but it still sounds like a "simulated " acoustic. I've had the pleasure of playing and recording some very fine vintage Martins and it's funny how no matter what recording chain and shenanogans you go through these days putting a simple mic in front of a good instrument makes all the difference in the world.

Hey your making progress jacktheexcynic you got one of the mics.
4 years ago I was running a Radio Shack lavaler (sp) mic into a Fostex 4 track cassette deck using one of them Bob Dylan style harmonica neck brace holders for a mic stand on a desk.

ORIGINAL: jacktheexcynic

thanks yep for the detailed reply. the only question i have left is whether i'll be able to get decent signal to noise ratio out of the 57. right now, with my 58, it's near impossible for me to get the kind of signal i want without the noise coming in. i realize that the 57 will be better as it rejects more noise but i'm still wondering if it will be a problem. i know in other threads it has been mentioned that the 57 needs quite a bit of gain to pick up enough signal.

i'm tempted just to buy it right now though and find out. =)

There's an interesting article in the latest (May 2006) issue of Recording magazine about the SM57 ("The Taming of the Shure" (pp. 76-80) and the input impedance load differential between most consoles & standalone preamps (1500-2500 ohms) and lower impedance load required by many dynamic mics such as the 57...

The article is not yet available online (http://recordingmag.com/CurrentIssue.html) but I'm sure it will be within a couple of weeks or so...

Anyway, the SM57, in clinically conducted tests, demonstrated exceptionally better performance when the impedance load was reduced to around 600 ohms...How can you do this if your preamp doesn't have a variable impedance control? A surprisingly simple answer is found in the article (and as soon as I've received reprint permission from the publisher I will post it here)...

Otherwise, if you have a preamp with variable impedance controls, tweak the setting to whatever is nearest to 600 ohms and your SM57 should perform in ways you've never experienced!

let us know how it goes - i'm not much of an engineer (soldering, etc.) but if it's worth it sound-wise then i may learn/get someone to do it for me. =)

I've done lots of recordings of Ovation acoustic guitars in both live (with PA) and studio situations. For live work, I generally use a Shure Beta 57A positioned about 10" from the instrument at the top of the body and pointing at the soundhole. For studio work (and sometimes for small live venues) I will use a large diaphragm condenser with a cardioid pattern (e.g. Rode NT2-A) about 18" from the body but positioned half way between the top pf the body and the soundhole. I ALWAYS take the guitar's built-in pickup signal to a separate recording track, and usually blend in a little of an EQed version of it in the mixdown. Remember to add 1 - 1.5ms delay in the pickup channel in your mixer to avoid phasing effects against the instrument mic.

You need to make sure you have at least 55dB of gain available on the mic channel on your pre-amp or mixer, and then take the channel direct outs (pre-EQ, pre-fader) to your multitrack hard disk recorder or computer sound card.

Regarding the post about terminating resistors, this is all about damping. The Shure dynamics tend to have an "edge" about them if left unterminated because the mount for the voicecoil is the only thing stopping the coil jumping around after a pressure transient. If it is made to do some work by dumping power into a terminating resistor, the coil is better behaved. You need even more gain, though - up to 6dB more if the terminating resistor matches the microphone's nominal impedance.

That said, Ovations and Beta 57As can make a really nice sound!

No problem, Larry...

When I got to the parts store (a local broadcast & studio equipment supplier) I decided the project box approach was best for two reasons:

1) Significantly easier to wire (and easier to change out resistor values or tolerances if needed);

2) Not having to worry about accidentally using a modified mic cable on other mics;

When I have more time, I'm going to take this experiment a little further and work on some similar "tricks" for my various external "stompbox" devices that I use on my guitar tracks...I'll post my methods & results as time permits!

ORIGINAL: Boswell

I've done lots of recordings of Ovation acoustic guitars in both live (with PA) and studio situations. For live work, I generally use a Shure Beta 57A positioned about 10" from the instrument at the top of the body and pointing at the soundhole. For studio work (and sometimes for small live venues) I will use a large diaphragm condenser with a cardioid pattern (e.g. Rode NT2-A) about 18" from the body but positioned half way between the top pf the body and the soundhole. I ALWAYS take the guitar's built-in pickup signal to a separate recording track, and usually blend in a little of an EQed version of it in the mixdown. Remember to add 1 - 1.5ms delay in the pickup channel in your mixer to avoid phasing effects against the instrument mic.

the little bit i've experimented with the mxl603 suggests that mixing in the pickup will be necessary for a full-bodied sound. hopefully today or tonight i'll be able to compare the 57 with the 603. i don't have any other mics (save an sm58).

my ovation is one of those with the multiple sound holes so it may make recording it that much harder...

You need to make sure you have at least 55dB of gain available on the mic channel on your pre-amp or mixer, and then take the channel direct outs (pre-EQ, pre-fader) to your multitrack hard disk recorder or computer sound card.

i can get 48 out of my tubepre (ugh), 60db out of my mackie 1202's trim, and 20db out of it's volume. maybe between the three i can get the s/n ratio i need.

ORIGINAL: yep

One technique to try if you have an acoustic sound you're really happy with is to put a mic right next to your ear. When you play an acoustic guitar, you are sitting in the instrument's nearfield, and the sound you hear is very different from the sound an audience member six feet away would hear. within the nearfield (about 2-3 feet from the guitar), moving the mic even an inch can drastically alter the sound. Outside the nearfield, the sound tends to "bloom" and even out, and changing mic positions tends to change the room/ambient sound more than the instrument sound.

i experimented with mic positions saturday night and this is exactly the case. i found the best position for the mic was about 1-2" above the guitar (basically inbetween the guitar and my head). this gave the best s/n ratio and low-end response. i'll be playing with it more later and let everyone know what i come up with.

Just curious, Jack...

Did you ever try the impedance modification that I posted above?

ORIGINAL: papa2004

Haven't heard back from the magazine, but since the information was made public I decided to share an AUTOCAD drawing of the cable modification (not a scan of the magazine...)

The study cited in the magazine was very interesting and I'm going to try this simple modification later this evening (have to get to a parts store first)...

Anyway, you can make an adapter cable of short length, or make a cable designated for use with the SM57 (or similar Shure mics) by incorporating a resistor as shown below:



This inexpensive modification to the mic cable seems to (according to the article) really enhance the performance of the SM57 in more ways than just increasing output gain...

I'm looking forward to trying this!

OK, I did this mod and I can't hear much difference.. could it be preamp dependent ?