suicide - why? I don't understand it.

That's very sad to hear, Reece.  It's always sad when that happens.  I mean, it's so completely final.  :( 

I'm glad you've never been in a place where you'd even consider it.  I'm afraid many people think of it often.  :(  Fortunately, not everyone carries thru with it, nor does it work every time. 

Let me point out that I do not look down on anyone who would have those feelings.  NO!  I just don't have an understanding of it myself.

I truly hope that anyone who reads this thread would take away some hope that life is still worth living and that if you are or ever have felt the desire to end life because of the burdens and pressure you feel that you would instead seek help.  Know that I may not know you personally, but I still love and care about you and your health!  and I wish that suicide never had to claim another from this world.

I'm sorry to hear about that Beagle. Hopefully he left some kind of note explaining his actions and it provides some kind of peace to his family knowing it wasn't their fault. Although, if he was abused by someone in his family it very well could have played a role in his decision.

I've known a few people who committed suicide over the years. The brother of my wife's uncles wife just committed suicide. He left behind a wife of 25 years and 4 kids. A guy I used to work with, his uncle drank a gallon of anti freeze. Can you imagine that? What kind of a dark place are you in to do something like that? What a horror that must have been to find him.

If you read on the net there is a phenomenon known as the 99 weekers that are spiking the suicide rates. Unemployment drops at 99 weeks and a lot of people are still out of work at that point and have lost everything and are committing suicide. I fall in to that category very soon and I have to be honest the thought has crossed my mind that I'm worth more dead than alive with my insurance money.

My sister had a nervous breakdown when her husband died and ended up in a psychiatric ward for a couple of weeks. She slowly committed suicide by just letting her health go. She had asthma and smoked and kept getting sick but wouldn't go to the doctor. My idiot x-wife let her babysit our daughter one night (without my knowledge) while my sister was sick with pneumonia. She had an asthma attack and died in front of my daughter. She was only 6. When I talked to her about it she said her aunt Lynn's teeth were bleeding and she wouldn't wake up. I told her to try not to think about it and her aunt wasn't sick anymore and she was ok now. What else can you say to a 6 year old who sees that you know?

Life isn't nice or fair, you just have to focus on the good things when they happen. Even those who have it good pay some kind of price, we all do in one way or another and sadly there are those who just can't deal with life.

Again, sorry to hear about this. I hope his family is doing ok.

Jumbicat: Hopefully I didn't offend you or anyone else. Beagle had mentioned that he didn't understand this at all...I know he understands it, but wanted to give him my take and my experience in the event it would give him some food for thought as well as what I've learned and experienced. I honestly meant no harm. If it was taken that way, I'm truly sorry.

Wow. This was a hard thing to find at 5:00am in the morning.

Beagle: so sad to hear of this hitting your life, your psyche and your church community. Very very sad. You will truly have my prayers. You and your whole church family.

There are times where my condition is so bad (that being incurable, long-term severe migraines) that I want an asteroid to shoot out of the sky and kill me. I have wanted to find myself in the normally inconceivable position of having something like a gun in my hand to shoot away the pain, but realize that the collateral damage would be my very life and furthermore cause pain to the lives around me. Can't, won't have that. Thanks to my faith - a blessing in times of high-stress - I am FREE not to self injure. I am FREE not to kill myself. I have great sympathy for those who do, be it from extreme pain or clinical depression. And knowing a bit of what they may be going through, would NEVER judge. But because I have a God I know loves me, and will see me through to the better times, I feel free, even in the midst of the storm. Free to go on with His grace.

Not everyone (like Kalle) may see the 'religious types' that way, and I understand. But God is there for me and I know that my head pain cannot ever match the crown of thorns that was worn for me. I pray those struggling will have an encounter with that same Being I've come to know, and who 'gets me' and yes, gets this life that NONE OF US 'are very good at'. We can never be good at it. That's a fact! The rich may look like it's all good, but their character or inner emptiness betrays the insanity that often ensconces them. (Read the poem "Richard Cory" by Edwin Arlington Robinson). But I also know that everything I experience, via the faith given to me, will usher in great peace one day - and definitely not in this world.

(I have 2 stories of suicide that I've been connected with...and they ain't pretty. One of the situations was REALLY senseless: the 17-year-old brother of a gal I was dating killed 2 other teens (who'd pi#@ed him off) before doing himself in. The other - a girlfriend/workmate of my wife's had a nasty fight with her mom (most likely) and probably drank herself to death. Tell me that anyone reading these two mini-obits can't smell evil's malodorous presence at work in that?)

And for those shallow pastors (not saying your church's guy is) who promise wealth to the 'tithing masses' and that 'God will make you a happy soul all the time if you do A, B & C...' - I would like to rip their tongues out! What lies! The Man said, "In this world you will have sorrow, but take heart - I have overcome the world." I encourage those here who struggle deeply and inwardly to inquire after THAT man and what that means. It's then you'll see the purpose in pain, the reason for the madness, the wisdom of enduring.

Not to simplify things too much, here's a way of looking at things: Loosely quoting C.S. Lewis, "If you view this life as a hotel, you will certainly complain about the service. View it as a prison, you will be elated with every small blessing that comes to you."

So, as y'all can imagine, any day I'm not in pain, is a GREAT DAY! I completely forget the pain from the day before - try and live in the moment like a silly dog (Golden Retriever, actually! ).

Kalle. I hear your pain, man. But may I inquire: How can you attest that the death of a youth is tragic (which it surely is) and then not expect 'guilt' to hover like a wraith over an action that was birthed from a choice (unless the person was, of course, completely mentally unstable or in unrelenting physical pain)? And do you think because you're near 60 that your death wouldn't be as 'tragic'? I believe you believe that, but I KNOW that's not the truth. 'The God who is there' (interesting book by Francis Schaeffer) knows it too.

John Donne put it well when he said,
"No man is an island, entire of itself
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee."

Peace to all out there who can recieve it.
Hang in there Beagle - keep asking questions, sharing your sorrow and believing through everything.

Imago Dei

When I was in high school, I contemplated suicide (I later learned this was not uncommon for teenagers - especially girls).   Although I am Catholic, and taking my own life is a sin, it did not matter at the time....nothing did.  Not family, friends, God, nothing.  Day to day I feigned emotions and smiles, robotically performed my work, or sometimes just sat for hours and stared into nothingness.   I just hated the way I felt and believed going to sleep and not waking up the best thing for me. 
 
Luckily, I never attempted suicide.  I worked my way out of it....the depression...but it was a looooog trip.  How is a bit of luck and spirituality and I won''t go into that.  But, a person can crawl out of despair and the crawl is mostly a solo and arduous journey.  Oddly, a song help me a bit.  My sister loved M*A*S*H and would sing the words to the theme song when I came on TV.  The lyrics....Suicide is Painless.   Odd how something so in your face can actually help.
 
When I had children of my own I sought out to learn about teen suicide so that I could better understand the symptoms of depression - I never wanted my children to get to the level of despair that I had experienced.  I am blessed in that regard...my children are through that stage.
 
I also learned, according to the Center for Disease Control, that 60% of teens have thought of committing suicide.  It is the #4 cause of death for teens.  I still remember that figure because it is staggering. 
 
I can not provide proper solace to those that have been touched by suicide.  Nor can I provide a suitable "why".   I also cannot fully describe the despair and misery - not because it is a secret, but because I could write a thousand words and still not describe it adequately.  The other side of the emotional scale, love, would take just a many words to describe.  Both feelings are hard to describe.  
 
I will tell you this.  Suicide of someone close (family, friend, acquaintance) will touch you and change you forever.  It will mark your heart and soul in indelible ways.  How you cope is personal.   The memory does not go away, you just learn to cope better with time.

Danny - I did not read your reply before you edited it because I don't ever subscribe to threads (I have way too many posts - my email inbox would be full of responses if I subscribed to every thread!).  Thank you for the condolences.  Honestly I do not understand it, but maybe I'm not conveying what I don't understand correctly.  I think Imago Dei and Karyn expressed it better than I did.  I'm not judging anyone who has committed suicide nor am I judging anyone who has contemplated it.  But I have not had an intimate relationship with anyone who has those thoughts (that I have been aware of) or an intimate relationship with anyone who has committed suicide, so I cannot truly understand what they are going through.

Bub - interestingly I'm sure that the family and friends probably do question if his (and others') suicide was somehow their fault, but I am also sure that it is not.  suicide is, IMO, probably the deepest personal decision one can make, regardless of whether they are in the correct state of mind to make a decision like that or not, it really is a decision which is very personal and not derived from an external source (I'm sure there are some exceptions in cases of abuse without possibility of escape from that abuse).

Kalle - I don't know you personally, only what you have revealed here on the forums, but I do consider you an aquaintance with a shared common interest.  I say this in love for you and anyone, please consider talking to people, especially a professional if you can.  While I don't understand the feelings you might have regarding ending your life, I do value it highly as a gift and a blessing and as Imago Dei said above, your life is not worth less now than it was as a young man.  You are a valuable and wonderful person.  Thank you for sharing your heart with us.  and please understand that I, and many people, value your life!

Chris (Imago Dei) - your words are kind and full of wisdom.  No, our pastor is not one of the "prosperity" preachers.  Our church is quite famous, actually, but not in a grand way.  The church I attend is the one where 7 people were killed in 1999 (including the gunman who killed himself before the tragedy was over).  So our church is not a stranger to tragedy and death.  This is the closest I've ever been touched by suicide and it has saddened my heart for the young man who ended his own life, his friends, his family and his extended family.

Karyn - as I said above, I think you've correctly hit the nail on the head saying that I cannot understand it without experiencing it directly.  This is the closest I have come and it simply has me asking questions and seeking knowledge regarding the situation and seeking comfort for my grief and for those who knew him and his family.

Katie - thank you for sharing your experience.  I'm sure that even sharing that is difficult in some ways.  I thank God for you that your children have made it through that difficult time.  My children are also through that time (mostly) as only my baby is still a "teenager" but will be 20 in the fall.  Your last statement has very true words and I am finding my coping is strangely curious, and deeply saddened for others who were closer to him.  But yes, it does "mark my heart and soul in indelible ways." 

thanks all.  I'm sure I will learn more about the situation and his family on Wednesday when we have choir practice again.  Thanks for all who have participated and offered words of wisdom and comfort.

Your very welcome sir and welcome back.

I agree Reece, I've been though some dark periods in my life but still have trouble understanding what might bring someone to that point. My sister's ex-husband committed suicide and although there were specific events that happened that lead him to that point, it still seemed so out of character for him and he was apparently just overcome and consumed with those helpless thoughts. The funeral was very difficult and it definitely raises some issues that are hard to reconcile as a Christian in terms of that person's ultimate fate.

In reading through this thread, some rambling short-paragraph thoughts occurred to me that I wish to share.
 
It is interestingly wonderful to witness a forum become a community, a community become acquaintances, acquaintances become friends.
 
Although I know none of you personally, as with pen-pals (remember them) I don't need to meet you to catch a glimpse of your personality via your writings and music .  And, in turn, care about you and yours.
 
If someone would have told me months ago that I, and others, would be sharingv intimate feelings on a forum whose reputation was the furthest thing from serious - in fact, it was noted to be irreverent and wacky, I would have told them they were out of their mind and made real money bets against it. 
 
Some of the post have touched my heart and soul...deeply.   I'll repeat - your candor has touched my heart and soul deeply. 
 
For me, reading these posts has opened another portal to your hearts and souls.  Somehow, I believe that was your intent, even if you don't consciously admit to it. 
 
When I wrote my post, actually afterwards, I realized I had just put to paper a flow of almost unconscious feelings - somehow I needed to do that.   It was cathartic - I actually felt better for doing so.  Lucy, I owe you 5 cents.
 
 
For those of you that posted your feelings, believe this....you have helped others as well as yourselves.  Synergism (theological or other forms - take your pick) does exist - others helping others is an uplifting experience to witness or participate.
 
  
Finally, to Beagle:
I know your original post sought explanations and answers.   Kind sir, I do not believe you received exactly what you sought, but I truly believe you received much much more.   What you received was intangible, invaluable, and, more importantly, unforgettable replies from a community of friends.  So although these post may not help you understand, I believe they will help you cope.
 
From my heart and soul...Dominus vo biscum
(My Catholic upbringing...it means God be with you)
Katherine
 
 
 

Reece, my condolences to the family and friends of this young man.

I am well acquainted with the feelings of disbelief and the feelings of total loss when a loved one does this. My brother's first wife took her life. She left behind two young boys and a husband whose lives were drastically affected by what she did.

It's never and easy thing to get through. My prayers are for comfort for his family and friends.

Sorry to hear about this. Really. But as for me, not a day goes by without me considering killing myself. I have pretty severe depression, but I see a therapist and I'm on a medication and that helps. Family and friends help as well, and are the main reason I haven't done it yet--I don't want to hurt them.  I once heard a quote: If you're desperate enough to kill yourself, you're desperate to try something different to try to get help. That's also helped me, since death is final, and I like options.

As for the religion thing, I don't believe in any gods, nor spirits, nor an afterlife. This is all we get, even though I didn't ask for it. So I think that keeps me alive as well.

Too much information?

Herb (guitarhacker) - thanks for your thougths and prayers as well.  it is a difficult time for his family and his church family.

tarsier - no, not too much information!!!  I thank you for sharing your soul with us.  I am extremely glad that you realize you need help with your depression and that you are able to get help through counseling and medication.  I think that quote is EXCELLENT! 

as for your lack of belief in God, I understand and validate your beliefs and do not condemn you in any way.  I would only pray that some day you might have an open mind to discussing it with someone of faith.  But I do not wish to turn this thread into a religious discussion because that is against the TOS.  Feel free to discuss this with me any time in a PM or email.

Beagle

Bub - interestingly I'm sure that the family and friends probably do question if his (and others') suicide was somehow their fault, but I am also sure that it is not.  suicide is, IMO, probably the deepest personal decision one can make, regardless of whether they are in the correct state of mind to make a decision like that or not, it really is a decision which is very personal and not derived from an external source (I'm sure there are some exceptions in cases of abuse without possibility of escape from that abuse).

If you've never had those thoughts or don't understand why someone would take their own life, it's hard to see how an outside source could effect their decision. I can tell you from first hand experience that it does. What we do to each other has a very big effect, especially on an unstable person. Someone who was beaten or molested by a parent (or anyone for that matter) carries that with them their entire life even though they've escaped it when they got older. That most definitely can effect a person's decision to take their life and yes, I would place blame on the other person in that case to some extent.

I'll gladly share the movie in private with you if you are interested as to me, I sincerely felt it was something that should be mantadory in every grammar school, high school and college. It basically tells the story of a suicide where the kid that commits it, narrates the story. It's a bit creepy but man, it hits home like you wouldn't believe!

The class was in high school and it was an option. They talked about every aspect of death from infant to adult...coping with it etc. As dark and depressing as the class may have been, it was one of the most incredible classes I ever took in high school and is permanently burned into my memory.