ohgrant
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A noob with a few questions
Hi all, I'm new here. I have been using Guitar Tracks 2.0 since 2000. Most of the songs I recorded when I first got it, I wrote several years before when I was playing metal., I still have GT 2.0 and I now also have GT Pro 3 and I have allot of material I would like to lay down. I used a few rack effects and a shure mic to record the guitar and vocals before but I do not have the rack effects anymore and I wasn't that satisfied with the sound. I would assume that Cakewalk 3 supports higher sound quality then Cakewalk 2.0. Is there any VST or DX plug-in, that gets close the same effect as the rack unit Apex aural exciter? What is the best way to record vocals, a good mike direct in or a preamp? What is the best mic for PC recording? I'm still much more comfortable with 2.0, is there a huge benefit in sound quality if I record in GT pro 3 over 2.0? Sorry for all the noob questions, I’m just exited the Cakewalk forum is more of an enthusiast site, last time I checked I thought it was more like a technical support forum.
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RobertB
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/28 23:50:56
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Welcome ohgrant, Most of us are pretty enthsiastic about what we can do with this software, but the tech stuuf is an essential element. What hardware are you working with, especially your sound card? You will probably need a preamp of some kind with a dynamic mic, definitely with a condenser. I have no experience with the Apex hardware, but you can get varying degrees of success with plug-ins. Some are very good, others a bit lacking. There has been a lot of discussion on mics. Check the forums, especially Techniques and gear, even Songs. The SM57/SM58 are good workhorses, and if you have one of these, you are probably ok.
post edited by RobertB - 2007/03/28 23:52:20
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 07:41:21
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Thanks for the welcome Robert B, I have a CL audigy2 card now, when I recorded the old stuff, I had a CL live 5.1 xgamer. I'm looking to get rid of the audigy2 card soon because I have never been able to run anything but the WDM driver. There was alot of music creation software that I had when I had my 5.1 card that didn't work well in xp. Can you recommend a card that is good for recording and gaming? Do you know of any software that works in XP like Creative Keytar or Creative keyboard? Thanks again for the reply. I listened to your stuff, sounds great. As for the rest of my setup, P4p800-e P4 3.2@3.5 1.5 GB Gainward Bliss 7800GS golden sample ATI HDTV Wonder 2 WD 40GB caviar's Raid 0 2 250 backup drive's CL Audigy 2 ZS
post edited by ohgrant - 2007/03/29 19:47:40
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pistolpete
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 08:30:23
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RobertB is sooooo enthusiastic, he doesn't even OWN any versions of Guitar Tracks!!!! (He makes things up as he goes.  ) I have used GT2 and upgraded to GT3 and there and I have found that GT3 is actually worse. This is from experience.
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Randy P
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 08:42:10
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Ignore pete. He is as dumb as a stump and everyone here knows it.
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 20:00:18
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After reading your kindergarden rant at This thread Pete, I don't think it takes anybody too long to see you are full of sh!t. There is no need to respond to me. I had you on ignore before my first post. So... [image]  [/image]
post edited by ohgrant - 2007/03/30 04:06:29
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Randy P
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 20:21:14
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Classic. You are going to fit in just fine here Ohgrant. RobertB or someone helpful and knowledgeable such as him about such things will be along shortly to answer your questions. Welcome! Randy
post edited by rsp@odyssey.net - 2007/03/29 21:51:51
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband
The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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RobertB
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 20:23:56
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Grant, I see you've met our little friend. Creative keyboard. That's what started me down this road. That simple little toy planted a very addictive seed. I don't know of anything else that quite works like that, but a google search might turn something up. As for sound cards that are good for gaming and recording, the two have different requirements, and my experience is that sound cards designed for recording are not great at games. The problem seems to be that the game codes don't communicate well wth thes cards. I have set up two hardware profiles, one for gaming, and one for recording, to get around this. Each uses a different sound card. How comfortable are you working inside your case? A lot of Win 95/98 software doesn't agree with XP. That may be what you experienced with your older software. Glad you liked the songs. I have been having a lot of fun with this. Try downloading ASIO4All. It is not a true ASIO driver, but it wraps the WDM driver and tricks it into thinking it's ASIO. It worked well with my old SB Live 5.1. It should work with your Audigy. It's not a perfect solution, but it works most of the time. ps. I have that poster hanging in my workshop.
post edited by RobertB - 2007/03/29 20:33:41
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 21:32:56
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Thanks again RobertB, I was getting ready to take a friends advise and get that new creative card but I was thinking there may be a better choice for me. As far as getting in the case, I have been building PC's since 2001 when I finally got tired of all the IRQ conflicts involved with all of the OEM machines when adding devices. I built this one a few years back mostly for stereoscopic 3D compatibility for gaming. I just recently started using Cakewalk again and have started putting down some drum and acoustic tracks with Drag and drop drummer in GT 2.0, I don't want to get to far and put allot of work into it. After browsing a little on this forum, I've read about a few sound cards more suitable for music I'm researching those. And thanks for the tip on ASIO4All I will give it a try. I'm not having any trouble recording, or playing games with just the WDM driver, will ASIO4All improve quality?
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RobertB
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 21:47:08
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The biggest thing it helps is latency. If you are recording live tracks, latency can be a real issue.
For example, when I record my guitar, I like to play the efeects I am using. If it is a VST effect, the only way to hear it is to have input monitor turned on. If there is any latency from the sound card, it will show here, so being able to keep this as low as possible is a must. ASIO 4All won't affect sound quality, it is just a more efficient driver, and passes the signal through faster. Sound quality is a function of the sound card converters, and to some extent, the software you are using. If latency is not a problem, your WDM drivers may be robust enough to keep up.
The biggest problem with SB cards is that they will play back 24 bit files, but can only record 16 bit. This has been a matter of much debate, but you have more room to work with the 24 bit files. Do some more digging before you commit to a new card.
I like my E-MU0404, but there are many choices, and some of them may suite your particular needs better. If what you have now seems to be working ok for you, hold off a bit, 'til you can determine what you really want or need.
My Soundclick Page SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/29 22:22:24
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Thanks again RobertB that is one of the things I am going to have to get use to with GT Pro3, with 2.0, I always went to the edit screen and highlighted the file and added the effects after it was already recorded, I was able to audition it first, if I liked the results I then I added it. I'm sure I'll get use to it though. Edit: I think ASIO4 has had an impact in sound already thanks for that. RSP:Welcome Thanks RSP, I listened to your stuff sounds great.
post edited by ohgrant - 2007/03/30 14:17:25
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RobertB
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/30 23:17:52
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Grant,
Gave your songs a listen. Can I assume you are a fan of James, Kirk, & co? Like that sound.
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/30 23:26:07
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Can I assume you are a fan of James, Kirk, & co? Let's just say I have about every original episode on my hard drive as well as all the PC games, How did you guess, am I that transparent? 
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RobertB
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/30 23:45:25
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Let's just say I've been an afficianado of metal since the bronze age. I always like a high grade alloy. keep up the good work. p.s. What did you think of S&M? I thought it was a natural evolution, and had pictured a mix like that for a while. Those guys are much better than a lot of people give them credit for.
post edited by RobertB - 2007/03/30 23:57:09
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/31 01:04:33
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What did you think of S&M? I thought it was a natural evolution, and had pictured a mix like that for a while. Those guys are much better than a lot of people give them credit for. I'm embarrassed to say I'm not familiar with S&M, I'll search for them when I get a chance. Thanks for the kind words, the new stuff is going to be mostly funk blues and alternative. Edit: Now I see you ment Metalica when you said James, Kirk.... at first I thought you ment Star Trek. Yes Metalica, Overkill, Yngvie Malmstein, Mega Death , Judas and Iron Maden were bands that influenced me.
post edited by ohgrant - 2007/03/31 01:11:00
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RobertB
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/03/31 12:46:45
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That's funny. Yeah, this morning I realized you were thinking Star Trek.
S&M(Symphony & Metalica) was a 2 CD project that Metalica recorded live with the San Francisco Symphony. It was an interesting project, and for the most part was pretty cool stuff.
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bulls hit
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/01 06:34:36
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If you'relooking for a good soundcard and can afford $100, have a look at the M-Audio audiophile. I don't know what it's like for games, but the M Audio drivers are mature and solid. I'd stay away from anything made by Creative, E-Mu gear being the exception. They are notorius for advertising capability, then trying to fudge it under the covers
post edited by bulls hit - 2007/04/01 06:35:03
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/01 06:53:29
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Thanks bulls hit, that may be my next card.
post edited by ohgrant - 2007/04/02 19:26:02
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/02 00:04:02
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S&M(Symphony & Metalica) was a 2 CD project that Metalica recorded live with the San Francisco Symphony LOL, I remember that, to tell you the truth, though I played their early stuff but I lost interest in Metalica after the Black album. The Metal band fell apart in 95 and I got in a Classic rock band. It's hard to play metal out in my area because most places want dance music. To tell you the truth, that suits me just fine. I would much rather see some nice young lady wiggling her a$$ then some sweaty dudes moshing. My classic band fell apart a few years ago when our bassest and singer passed away. I'm getting ready to start a new blues dance band. Really been into old ZZ Top and CCR. I think Billy Gibbons is one of the greatist guitar players of all time. To bad folks remember ZZ mostly for songs like sharp dressed man and legs. I think their early stuff like just got back from baby and enjoy getin' it on, are some of the greatist songs ever. Well, sorry for the rambling, I'm getting old, I do that at times. I've decided to stick with 2.0 for the drum tracks. I have nothing against Pro3 but I like 2.0 so much, the only reason I see to use Pro3 is to add effects that are not supported by 2.0. After reading the forums for a while I'm under the impression there is no quality advantage from one version to another if a wav ia a wav, I might as well stick to what I'm comfortable with for now. Thanks again RobertB
post edited by ohgrant - 2007/04/05 00:05:20
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RobertB
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/02 00:39:47
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Jesus just left Chicago. One of my all time favorites. Yeah, Gibbons is good. I like good metal, but I can just as easily listen to Pat Metheny, Jethro Tull (Martin Barre has probably influenced me the most), Beethoven, Jan Luc Ponte', etc. I'm pushing 50, and I've heard a lot of stuff. Hey, if it's good, it's good.
If you are comfortable with your software, run with it. It's all about the music, and whatever tool works for you is the best tool.
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jamesg1213
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/02 05:10:11
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Jethro Tull (Martin Barre has probably influenced me the most), Me too Bob, although it probably doesn't show.. I think Billy Gibbons is one of the greatist guitar players of all time. +1 for that, and I much prefer Tres Hombres, Deguello etc to the synthy period.....Antenna was pretty good though. Anyway, back to the scheduled programme.....
post edited by jamesg1213 - 2007/04/02 08:02:21
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/02 07:36:16
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Jesus just left Chicago. One of my all time favorites. Yeah, Gibbons is good. I like good metal, but I can just as easily listen to Pat Metheny, Jethro Tull (Martin Barre has probably influenced me the most), Beethoven, Jan Luc Ponte', etc. I'm pushing 50, and I've heard a lot of stuff. Hey, if it's good, it's good. I'm going to have to check out Martin Barre, glad to see I'm not the oldest, 41 here, we sure have heard allot of great music in our day. I was starting to feel embarrassed being so old and posting my darkest stuff that I wrote with Torment. I posted some stuff that dates back even earlier. Rocker I wrote back in High School and See you in my dreams and Lost when you’re gone I wrote in the service in 85-89. Some guy that was 52 sent me an email to be on his buddy list, on sound click.com, he had some serious Heavy Metal rhythms that I really dig. Maybe I'm not too old for metal. +1 for that, and I much prefer Tres Hombres, Deguello etc to the synthy period.....Antenna was pretty good though.
post edited by ohgrant - 2007/04/04 21:29:12
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toetap
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/02 18:33:17
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You seem to be having a "really nice friendly chat", and I feel i'm intruding, but, several words of advice: Dont skimp, Buy a soundcard with as many inputs as your computer power will allow, buy a decent amp simulator (Amplitude 2.0 cannot be beaten) and record your guiar signal clean & simulated (hence the multi inputs) that way you can change your tones till your hearts content. I know it will cost a few quid (dollars) but its worth it. I tried to cut corners at first, and it cost me double in redudant/non-upgradable equipment. Good Luck
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/02 19:00:00
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Thanks for the input toetap, I never considered running line in, I have always used my Johnson millennium and used a mic to record the guitar. I've been doing mostly acoustic tracks but was planning on adding some electric tracks later. Does anyone else recommend line in over mic input?
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RobertB
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/02 21:04:20
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No intrusion at all, toetap. Sometime we stray a bit. You raise a good point, and false economy almost always costs more in the long run. Grant, Try both. Micing the amp is good if you like the sound from the cabinet. Sometimes you will be fighting the acoustics of the room, but there are ways to work with that. I usually record my electric direct because my amp doesn't really drive well 'til it's up to 30% or more, and that limits the time I can actually do it. You can do a lot with amp sims, and I really like the versatility of being able to change the sound of a clean (dry) recorded track after the fact. Experiment.
post edited by RobertB - 2007/04/02 21:10:04
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SteveStrummerUK
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/03 10:30:10
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Hi there OHGRANT
Just followed the link to your tunes - really impressed what you did, especially with GT2, Drag and Drop Drummer and the horrendous Fruity-loops! I mention this as I've used that particular combination before and my shreddin' didn't sound half as good as yours.
I can’t seem to get the sound of two highly distorted guitars to sound distinct from one another even when hard panned left and right (I’m taking note of what Beagle is saying though)– they just seem to turn into a mush, even when I back the distortion off and run different setting for each guitar part through my pedal board.
Anywho, I gotta say JamzOr’s done a superb job on Bloods The Price, it's a cracking tune. Just for the record (no pun intended) my fave on there is Feet Of Clay - it's gotta great groove.
Back to the grindstone for me – maybe one day I’ll have something good enough to upload!!
Good luck
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toetap
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/03 18:41:27
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OHGRANT, Oh, Oh Grant: I will say, I am not a fan of that type of music, BUT, How do you wish to improve on that guitar sound? You cant. If that is straight mic'd, then you should sell that as a pre-set to every Amp simulating software company. Obviously Blood stands out, (mastered) but, WoW. And if you tell me the whole song was done on GTPRO3, I'll turn metal.
(P.S. There's nothing like experience)
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ohgrant
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/03 19:08:47
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OHGRANT, Oh, Oh Grant: I will say, I am not a fan of that type of music, BUT, How do you wish to improve on that guitar sound? You cant. If that is straight mic'd, then you should sell that as a pre-set to every Amp simulating software company. Obviously Blood stands out, (mastered) but, WoW. And if you tell me the whole song was done on GTPRO3, I'll turn metal.
(P.S. There's nothing like experience)
It was done on the much earlier version of guitar tracks 2.0 that was released in 2000. I also used a DOD grunge pedal for the second solo in the dark, and a few of the licks on Feet of clay. Thanks for the compliments on the guitar sound. The Johnson millennium has just about every amp simulator built into it. I hate having to carry it though, weighs a ton Hi there OHGRANT
Just followed the link to your tunes - really impressed what you did, especially with GT2, Drag and Drop Drummer and the horrendous Fruity-loops! I mention this as I've used that particular combination before and my shreddin' didn't sound half as good as yours.
I can’t seem to get the sound of two highly distorted guitars to sound distinct from one another even when hard panned left and right (I’m taking note of what Beagle is saying though)– they just seem to turn into a mush, even when I back the distortion off and run different setting for each guitar part through my pedal board.
Anywho, I gotta say JamzOr’s done a superb job on Bloods The Price, it's a cracking tune. Just for the record (no pun intended) my fave on there is Feet Of Clay - it's gotta great groove.
Back to the grindstone for me – maybe one day I’ll have something good enough to upload!!
Thanks for the kind words. I had the demo version of fruity loops; it was a real pain to get the results I wanted. It amazes when I listen to some of the fruity loops demo's how good some of those guys are. I don't think I'll ever need the full version of that program.
post edited by ohgrant - 2007/04/03 19:15:27
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pistolpete
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/03 19:09:56
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Ohignorgant is not a rocket scientist, thats for sure. RobertB doesnt even own GT3 and rsp is a "R"eally "S"tupid "P"erson with a stump fetish. WOW. 
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Randy P
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RE: A noob with a few questions
2007/04/03 19:11:04
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Go laydown you ignorant stump. Sheesh
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