Skyline_UK
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2133
- Joined: 2004/04/15 17:55:09
- Location: Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
UK Upgrade price 23% more....
The UK dealer, Edirol is only advertising the full version of S8, not upgrades. So I went to buy on the Cakewalk site.
Upgrade price in the US: $179. Upgrade price in the UK (on the CW site) £119. $179 at today's exchange rate: £97. Rip off margin therefore: 23%. I'm going to pass.
My stuff Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
Data drives: 1 x 1TB drive RAID mirrored, plus extra 1TB data drive
Windows 10 Home 64 bit
Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
|
Fog
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12302
- Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
- Location: UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:02:58
(permalink)
same price in DV £119 and I'm not paying for DP again. there must be some value on the price of that in the upgrade factored in. pass also..  fixing the prices better for none US customers would help heaps.
post edited by Fog - 2008/09/22 11:04:44
|
Marketing [Cakewalk] 
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 276
- Joined: 2005/07/22 13:19:58
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:03:44
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Skyline_UK
The UK dealer, Edirol is only advertising the full version of S8, not upgrades. So I went to buy on the Cakewalk site.
Upgrade price in the US: $179. Upgrade price in the UK (on the CW site) £119. $179 at today's exchange rate: £97. Rip off margin therefore: 23%. I'm going to pass.
Hi there, sorry to hear that you are upset. We have different manufacturing costs in Europe than we do in the US, and please remember the cost you are seeing includes VAT, where in the US there is no sales tax included.
|
asimmd
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 375
- Joined: 2006/08/31 14:21:36
- Location: U.K
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:15:25
(permalink)
I suppose there are not enough of us in the UK to make a difference.
Now if our US friends made a stink about it,there would no doubt be an inquest,it
dosen't matter that we are not upgrading,there are enough in the US to make it worth while.
Rip Off Britain again,Definately.
Alan
Sonar Platinum - Intel i5 Quad Core - Win7 64Bit - 8 Gig Ram - Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 - Vox AC30HW2X - Torpedo Reload - Vox AC15C1 - MJW Custom Built Amp - Fender NOS56 Strat - Universal Audio and Waves Plugins - Softube - Redwirez IR's
|
dredd i knight
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 132
- Joined: 2006/04/04 21:29:31
- Location: London UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:16:29
(permalink)
VAT is 17.5%.....
so the extra 5.5% are the manufacturing costs factored in?
when will it be available?
also, does it have the stability that i lost with sonar 5? things have never quite been the same since then for me...
AMD 64+, Windows XP SP2, Edirol FA66, Beringer Truth monitors, 2*Technics 1200's, Pioneer 909 dj mixer, Sonar 7, Stylus RMX, Guru, Dimension Pro, Rapture, P5v2.5, Trilogy, Battery 3, Atmosphere, Ableton live 5
|
Fog
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12302
- Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
- Location: UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:17:47
(permalink)
Alan, it's not even that for me.. go have a look at www.dv247.com and more and compare prices. e.g. the full version of sonar 8 for a start sure cake has to sell their products at RRP ,but notice the big difference. The user base is worldwide and well it would make a big difference to the user base if things were a bit more level. the way things are for me, they have scored an own goal regarding pricing.
post edited by Fog - 2008/09/22 11:22:32
|
Skyline_UK
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2133
- Joined: 2004/04/15 17:55:09
- Location: Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:20:56
(permalink)
But if I buy direct from you at Cakewalk you do not add VAT as you are a US company! Or are you saying that if I order direct from you the order will actually be fulfilled from Ireland or similar, and therefore will be liable to VAT?
My stuff Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
Data drives: 1 x 1TB drive RAID mirrored, plus extra 1TB data drive
Windows 10 Home 64 bit
Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
|
Fog
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12302
- Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
- Location: UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:22:50
(permalink)
nah they have to pay VAT as it's an import.. it's not VAT exempt, maybe slightly lower rate if it's shipped from Ireland perhaps as it's within the EU.
post edited by Fog - 2008/09/22 11:24:57
|
Robin Kelly [Roland]
Genuinely Swell Guy
- Total Posts : 571
- Joined: 2003/11/07 10:04:44
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:22:54
(permalink)
If you do a straight conversion you would take 179 USD and add VAT you get 210 dollars. Convert to pound and you get roughly 114 GBP. Now add that the dollar has been climbing over the past few months and is up 15% over this time last year and here we are. That's a straight conversion which never actually happens. But even if you were saying a straight conversion you are talking 4% more which in month could be 2% or 2% less depending on the markets.
I am not going to get into VAT debates again but we have to charge you VAT otherwise the nice people from the EU get a bit upset as your upgrades ship out of Ireland and not the US.
|
asimmd
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 375
- Joined: 2006/08/31 14:21:36
- Location: U.K
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:25:11
(permalink)
Hi Fog
Well,I already shelled out £169 for the full version
of Dimension Pro,so I don't need that,actually,I can't see anything that say's
Buy Me.
Alan
Sonar Platinum - Intel i5 Quad Core - Win7 64Bit - 8 Gig Ram - Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 - Vox AC30HW2X - Torpedo Reload - Vox AC15C1 - MJW Custom Built Amp - Fender NOS56 Strat - Universal Audio and Waves Plugins - Softube - Redwirez IR's
|
Skyline_UK
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2133
- Joined: 2004/04/15 17:55:09
- Location: Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:26:55
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Robin Kelly [Cakewalk]
If you do a straight conversion you would take 179 USD and add VAT you get 210 dollars. Convert to pound and you get roughly 114 GBP. Now add that the dollar has been climbing over the past few months and is up 15% over this time last year and here we are. That's a straight conversion which never actually happens. But even if you were saying a straight conversion you are talking 4% more which in month could be 2% or 2% less depending on the markets.
I am not going to get into VAT debates again but we have to charge you VAT otherwise the nice people from the EU get a bit upset as your upgrades ship out of Ireland and not the US.
Thanks, Robin. That answers my second post - I hadn't twigged that if I order from the US it gets fulfilled in the dear old Emerald Isle! I know if anything comes direct from the States it gets lumbered with duties and taxes plus VAT on those, so it's as long as it's broad I guess. All is cool again. Now, let me see, do I really need any of those new features.... I'd love to have engine improvements, but the rest aren't too useful in terms of my particular needs. But how can I live being one version behind!! Argh. John
post edited by Skyline_UK - 2008/09/22 11:33:20
My stuff Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600 @ 3.4GHz, 4 cores, 8 threads, 16GB RAM.OS & Programs drive: 240GB SSD
Data drives: 1 x 1TB drive RAID mirrored, plus extra 1TB data drive
Windows 10 Home 64 bit
Cakewalk by BandLab 64 bit, Studio One 3, Band In A Box 2016, Ozone 8+ too many other pluginsBandLab page
|
Lemonboy
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 679
- Joined: 2004/05/31 11:36:59
- Location: Dorset, UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:33:24
(permalink)
Come on chaps, stiff upper lip and all that! Yes I'd rather pay £97 than £119 for the upgrade, but if we've got to pay VAT then we've got to pay VAT (and that's not Cakewalks fault), and yes that would only make £114, but lets wait and see what Edirol and other UK suppliers come back with as an upgrade price as well. Having said that I'm not upgrading yet  as I've just upgraded the family with an 8 lb 8 oz baby boy (that TWO eights - must be at least twice as good as Sonar), but when things settle down I will upgrade. Andy Hmmm. I wonder if I've got to pay VAT on nappies?  
|
syrath
Max Output Level: -34.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4075
- Joined: 2005/08/11 05:40:08
- Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:34:18
(permalink)
Buy in the US and no VAT
Buy in the UK you have 17.5% VAT, you have to factor in a buffer for fluctuating exchange rates and you have shipping from the US (originally) to factor in.
Unfortunately Ive found the same with download plugins, if you buy outside the EC you still have to add on VAT.
|
Fog
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12302
- Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
- Location: UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:36:07
(permalink)
|
fitzj
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1487
- Joined: 2005/10/13 11:56:37
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 11:56:51
(permalink)
£ 139.00 for the upgrade from 7.0.2 for UK users.
|
Gerry
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 861
- Joined: 2004/10/30 11:18:38
- Location: Cadiz, Spain
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:08:26
(permalink)
History does repeat itself and there is no doubt the VAT question has never ever been answered fully as different European countries have different VAT rates so which one does Cake use?. What is Cake's VAT number which never appears on their European invoices when legaly it should? Bottom line the European pricing has more to do with keeping its European Distributors happy at what is an acceptable price for Europe. Wrap it up in VAT, production etc but what you have is something else. I have had all the rising or falling exchange rate excuses to and that doesn't stack up either because either way we in Europe get the wrong end of the stick. Not seeking a fight just pointing out that all this is discussed every year and we always get Cake is looking into and the bottom line it never does. Take it or leave is the only option and that means ignore US Pricing unless of course you live there.
|
thebiglongy
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 502
- Joined: 2006/01/29 19:20:31
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:15:07
(permalink)
I suppose you could always get a friend in the US to purchase and send it as a gift, that way you wouldn't incure the customs costs and vat?
|
asimmd
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 375
- Joined: 2006/08/31 14:21:36
- Location: U.K
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:18:25
(permalink)
fitzj,it's £129 for the upgrade from Edirol
Sonar Platinum - Intel i5 Quad Core - Win7 64Bit - 8 Gig Ram - Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 - Vox AC30HW2X - Torpedo Reload - Vox AC15C1 - MJW Custom Built Amp - Fender NOS56 Strat - Universal Audio and Waves Plugins - Softube - Redwirez IR's
|
Robin Kelly [Roland]
Genuinely Swell Guy
- Total Posts : 571
- Joined: 2003/11/07 10:04:44
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:29:08
(permalink)
139 is for a studio upgrade 119 is for PE 7-PE 8. As this is a sensitive subject I would recommend that is you post pricing please post what the upgrade path is so everyone is clear.
Select Upgrade for Product You Own
New Customer £389.00
Upgrade for Reg. Cakewalk Users £289.00
Upgrade from Guitar Tracks Pro, Home Studio, Kinetic, Pro Audio, Project5 £219.00
Upgrade from SONAR 1-5 (Studio/Producer) £169.00
Upgrade from SONAR 7 Studio, SONAR 6 (Studio/Producer/Power Studio) £139.00
Upgrade from SONAR 8 Studio £129.00
Upgrade from SONAR 7 Producer £119.00
@Gerry - Sorry but it has nothing to do with keeping EU customers down or partners happy. I hope you are not suggesting we collect VAT but do not pass it on to the correct gov't agency? That would be a fun day at the office when the tax man arrives.:-)
|
plainfaced
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1617
- Joined: 2004/08/25 08:52:16
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:31:03
(permalink)
We went through this last year.. Cakewalk are NOT ripping anyone off..
post edited by plainfaced - 2008/09/22 12:32:58
Sonar Professional | Reason 8 | Propellerheads Balance | Windows 10
|
thebiglongy
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 502
- Joined: 2006/01/29 19:20:31
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:31:58
(permalink)
Robin i believe from edirol that sonar 8 pe is £349 not £389?
|
d45
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 112
- Joined: 2008/09/07 16:06:46
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:36:39
(permalink)
Tell you what, send all the UK VAT money to me and I will ensure Her Majesty receives it, as well as provide confirmation to the doubters here that you aren't all living large at the Chancellor of the Exchequer's expense. Honest. 
|
Fog
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12302
- Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
- Location: UK
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:45:19
(permalink)
whats more worrying Lee is there's loads of fake pound coins doing the rounds.
I didn't realise the queen had relocated , her normal residence is hhmm 20 minutes drive from here. Last time I was there (inside the gates) I was all of 5-6 years old.. 28-29 years ago.. wonder if she'd remember me..hehe
|
d45
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 112
- Joined: 2008/09/07 16:06:46
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:48:24
(permalink)
Don't send me it in pound coins.
|
Gerry
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 861
- Joined: 2004/10/30 11:18:38
- Location: Cadiz, Spain
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:52:29
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Robin Kelly [Cakewalk]
139 is for a studio upgrade 119 is for PE 7-PE 8. As this is a sensitive subject I would recommend that is you post pricing please post what the upgrade path is so everyone is clear.
Select Upgrade for Product You Own
New Customer £389.00
Upgrade for Reg. Cakewalk Users £289.00
Upgrade from Guitar Tracks Pro, Home Studio, Kinetic, Pro Audio, Project5 £219.00
Upgrade from SONAR 1-5 (Studio/Producer) £169.00
Upgrade from SONAR 7 Studio, SONAR 6 (Studio/Producer/Power Studio) £139.00
Upgrade from SONAR 8 Studio £129.00
Upgrade from SONAR 7 Producer £119.00
@Gerry - Sorry but it has nothing to do with keeping EU customers down or partners happy. I hope you are not suggesting we collect VAT but do not pass it on to the correct gov't agency? That would be a fun day at the office when the tax man arrives.:-)
Sorry Robin I am suggesting that VAT and exchange rates are always used to explain the hike or price difference. Yet your VAT never appears seperately on your invoice nor does you VAT number. You see as a business if it did I could claim it back but as it doesn't or hasn't in the past I can't. Bottom line I am most certainly suggesting that European pricing and USA pricing are more about what each market will support and distribution considerations rather than pure VAT, import/export, exchange rate issues but like I said before you take your choice if you want it buy it, if you don't don't.
|
Twigman
Max Output Level: -38.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3667
- Joined: 2006/08/24 04:45:15
- Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 12:59:38
(permalink)
deja vu
every year same old exchange rate discussion.......never a satisfactory explanation just bend over and bite.....take it like a man
|
Twigman
Max Output Level: -38.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3667
- Joined: 2006/08/24 04:45:15
- Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 13:01:31
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Gerry
Sorry Robin I am suggesting that VAT and exchange rates are always used to explain the hike or price difference. Yet your VAT never appears seperately on your invoice nor does you VAT number.
I remember last year trying to get a EU VAT number out of Cakewalk and they failed to deliver. I suspect they are not registered for EU VAT but charge as though they were so as to not undercut their EU distributors and then lie about it to the customers. If they were charging EU VAT and are so concerned about adhering to the rules they'd realise that when charging EU VAT they are obliged to seperate the VAT on the invoice and quote their EU VAT registration number on that invoice. They don't - only one conclusion can be drawn without evidence to the contrary.
post edited by Twigman - 2008/09/22 13:06:36
|
plainfaced
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1617
- Joined: 2004/08/25 08:52:16
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 13:03:54
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Skyline_UK
The UK dealer, Edirol is only advertising the full version of S8, not upgrades. So I went to buy on the Cakewalk site.
Upgrade price in the US: $179. Upgrade price in the UK (on the CW site) £119. $179 at today's exchange rate: £97. Rip off margin therefore: 23%. I'm going to pass.
Boo hoo! 
Sonar Professional | Reason 8 | Propellerheads Balance | Windows 10
|
Twigman
Max Output Level: -38.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3667
- Joined: 2006/08/24 04:45:15
- Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 13:07:54
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Robin Kelly [Cakewalk] I hope you are not suggesting we collect VAT but do not pass it on to the correct gov't agency? That would be a fun day at the office when the tax man arrives.:-)
I am. You have never published your EU VAT registration number - where charging EU VAT it is an obligation of yours to quote it on the invoice and note the VAT charged seperately - without that only one conclusion can be drawn.
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
RE: UK Upgrade price 23% more....
2008/09/22 13:09:12
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Robin Kelly [Cakewalk]
139 is for a studio upgrade 119 is for PE 7-PE 8. As this is a sensitive subject I would recommend that is you post pricing please post what the upgrade path is so everyone is clear.
Select Upgrade for Product You Own
New Customer £389.00
Upgrade for Reg. Cakewalk Users £289.00
Upgrade from Guitar Tracks Pro, Home Studio, Kinetic, Pro Audio, Project5 £219.00
Upgrade from SONAR 1-5 (Studio/Producer) £169.00
Upgrade from SONAR 7 Studio, SONAR 6 (Studio/Producer/Power Studio) £139.00
Upgrade from SONAR 8 Studio £129.00
Upgrade from SONAR 7 Producer £119.00
@Gerry - Sorry but it has nothing to do with keeping EU customers down or partners happy. I hope you are not suggesting we collect VAT but do not pass it on to the correct gov't agency? That would be a fun day at the office when the tax man arrives.:-)
Blow up parliament is my advice. £389 for a studio, from nothing? Blimey I remember having to shell out much more than twice that for a 4-track cassette player/recorder made by Fostex or something if I remember right, not that long ago either really, and thought it was the mutts at the time. Having been involved in importing from the US before and looking at the US prices, I'd hardly class the price list above as Cake's wanton greed when our own Government is actually stealing almost a fifth of the value. There's only one place to put any anger here from my calculations. But we won't rock the boat will we? So no point moaning 'bout it. There's only one question here when it comes to pricing. Is it worth it? Your call.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2008/09/22 13:11:53
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|