Requests to Cakewalk devs for scoring to picture

5 - Frame advance / reverse - simple keyboard presses for the playback cursor to go forward / backwards by a single video frame

If the video window has the focus, the arrow left/right keys will move by 1 frame. I use ctrl-tab to tab through windows to get to and from the video window so I can frame advance/retreat with the arrow keys.

As for all your other suggestions, yes! be sure to fill out an official feature request: Feature Request Form

PS - have also filled out a feature request form.  Will report any feedback.

That's true Jose, but I really don't like them being even selected with Control A, even if they are unnaffected - it's kinda confusing.  Conceptually, I'd far rather they were treated as a breed apart, totally partitioned away from the rest of the timeline so you can absolutely forget about them - this would also have a very useful knock-on effect that they'd be ignored doing straight mix downs.  Again, this is configurable via busses now, but (again) it feels messy.

I'd argue that sync tracks - uniquely - aren't really part of the audio project a composer is working on.  They are an extension of the video, in a way.  I don't want them anywhere near my music!  Having a neat divider (like the divider between tracks and busses) and having them unaffected by all operations (including mixdowns) would be a great step forward imho.  In the rare event you'd want to include them in mixes, then you could copy and drag them to audio tracks, I guess.

tarsier

If the video window has the focus, the arrow left/right keys will move by 1 frame. I use ctrl-tab to tab through windows to get to and from the video window so I can frame advance/retreat with the arrow keys.

This is hardly an appropriate solution for several reasons.

1) It forces the video window to be active. So if you're clicking on various tracks and items (as most folks are when working) then you constantly have to go back and re-click the video window to make it in-focus. This wastes time and adds an un-needed step. When working under a tight deadline and/or working on a large scale video project you need to be as streamlined as possible.

2) Assuming that the video you're working on is 30 fps, then you could be clicking a whole bunch of times especially if you're working on a film that has a high frequency of events. For example I did sound design for a 20 minute martial arts film that had many kicks, flips, punches and the usual stuff found in kung fu movies. Working in this manner meant I have to key forward many times to make sure I wasn't missing any small, yet important, movements for sound design. A better solution would to be to have the video window always active and dynamic so as you move audio segments around the video playback is always reflective of where your cursor is. Sonar doesn't do this. The Cubase SX from 2003 does. Reaper does. Pro Tools does. Digital Performer does. Logic does. Keypoint: when working with large scale post-production for films, time counts. Workflow counts. Sonar doesn't do anything to make workflow more effective and speedy.

3) When other programs, some several years old and not the flagship product of their company, already have provided this feature it begs the question: Why is Cakewalk so far behind the times? I've brought this point up many times but Cakewalk has, not once, responded. Not even with a "thank you for your suggestion." It's really a shame. And consider that Cakewalk always makes a point to showcase video editing in it's promo materials, it seems rather silly.

Case in point: Here's the pic promoting Sonar 8.
 
I use Logic a ton at my in-house job. It's a very powerful tool and has a ton of great video post-production tools. One of the coolest is the ability to have Logic automatically find and mark cuts in scenes. This can help you pace out and plan your work. Another great feature (which isn't solely dedicated to film post-production) is the automation. Simply press "A" and the view toggles all of the automation on. Even better I can press one button while the automation is on and then select which parameter I want to automate (like how much Reverb Wet Mix Out sounds at that moment). Perhaps 8.5 has such a feature, I don't know. If so, great but in all of my experience with Sonar it just feels more clunkly.

It's time Cakewalk stops pretending to be an industry leading post-production audio in video solution. Either make Sonar on par with the other applications out there (as it relates to film audio post-production) or drop that niche. I'm fine with a program that has a narrow focus. Just think how long Reason was a non-audio production application. I was a Reason 3 and Reason 4 user and loved it. I also accepted that it wasn't trying to be an audio production software. With Cakewalk however.... it seems that they want to showcase that they are supporting this market or niche.... without making the tools appropriate or effective.

Okay, rant over! :)

Nate

Thanks for the points. #4 is definitely fixed for the next update and possibly #6 though I'm not certain what you are referring to in particular.
BTW I don't think we've ever claimed to be an "industry leader" for A/V post work. SONAR provides a basic toolkit for syncing video to audio at this time thats all.

Two words... Digital Performer...

I've linked the OP of this thread to my Feature Request.  Also added request to support 23.976 FPS in Sonar.

Later!

If 90% of a product's customer base are guitar and bass players who have day jobs and do music as a hobby, why would the product want to cater to such a niche client-base? That's why we have Digital Performer, Logic, Pro Tools, and Cubase. In other words, most likely it ain't gonna happen any time soon. Instead we'll most likely see more audio plug-ins which most people will never use, but will appeal to the aforementioned 90% of the product's customer base.

There are several people here who use Sonar for video work, but I only know of one who has worked in shows you all probably heard of, like "Into The Artic" and "Survivorman".  His a really nice guy by the way.  But I'm affraid of giving out his info :-P

Well, I'm scoring a series for BBC1 with Sonar, so some of us are using it!  And needless to say Cakewalk will never expand into that market without improvements - chicken and egg.

I probably made a strategic mistake a while ago though - before I was using it in anger for TV, I realised that Sonar COULD work with video so I just stayed with what I knew.  A lot of the issues don't become apparent til you're at the coal face.  I probably should have made the jump to another DAW some time ago, but facing a new learning curve and all of those old projects for compatibility... it feels like a nuclear option.  Still might have to go for it in the long run though.

Cakwalk peeps - any comment on a broad direction for video users?

I missed this thread the first time round. I have to agree with noiseboy. Sonar is seriously lacking when working to video.

I have never scored to video so I don't know how feasible that is but I have tried doing audio post for video in Sonar and it is near impossible. Even though I have been using Sonar for much longer than Pro Tools, I find using Sonar for doing post at least 10 times slower and probably closer
 to twenty times slower than using Pro Tools.

That is no exaggeration! It is hard to explain where all the time loss comes from except by going step by step through using the applications (I've given some examples on this forum in the past) but even then you can't really tell except by becoming proficient in both applications and just trying it.

For me personally that is the difference between earning up to 5K$ per week and earning 500$ per week. Obviously not an acceptable option. I am amazed some people can use Sonar for this and survive in the business. I doubt they would if they really knew how much slower Sonar is compared to the competition. You won't understand that  by looking at a feature set or even using an application for a week or so but after a few months, there is no turning back.

The thing is though, a lot of the needed improvements are relatively small. Those small improvements would accelerate doing audio post in Sonar immensely. Video following audio editing would double the work speed for doing sound design / fx placement  for instance.

Anyway, I have said this so many times, just search the forum for posts with "audio post" or see the Workflow improvement top 10 for ideas and suggestions.

I will say one more time: This is the only field in audio where there is still some money. That should make it at least slightly interesting to Cakewalk...

UnderTow

In Pro Tools when you grab a region (the equivalent of a clip in Sonar) and move it around, the video follows your drag movements. This means that if you want to drop a sound FX on a specific event in the video, you just drag the region until you find the right spot in the video and drop the region there. (Of course you have trimmed the FX so that it starts immediately). It will be perfectly in sync. Idem in Pyramix, Nuendo, DP, Logic, Fairlight, Cubase, Reaper and basically anything that supports video except Sonar.

To really make this work, the now time has to correspond with the front edge of a clip. Cakewalk have always had the now time correspond to where the mouse cursor is when you click to select a clip. That doesn't really work for post. I would like there to be an option to enable this. (Of course, if you click on an empty spot in the arrange view and thus don't select anything, the now time will be wherever you clicked).

nathan.madsen mentions the same thing in his first post in this thread. Basically, as far as I am concerned, Sonar doesn't have video support as long as this isn't happening in Sonar.

Btw, for your point 5, it would be good if when you have nothing selected, the nudge keys nudge the now time. Right now the nudge buttons do nothing when nothing is selected. That IMO is a big waste.

There might be situations where you want to have stuff selected, nudge the now time but _not_ nudge whatever is selected and not lose your selection. For that it would be nice if the three nudge amounts (NUMPAD rows) could also have an option to only nudge the now time. By that I mean an individual setting for each one. Like that you could for instance have NUMPAD 1 and 3 nudge left/right by 1 frame. 4 and 6 nudge left/right by 3 frames and have 7 and 9 nudge left/right by 1 frame but ONLY nudge the now time even when you have clips selected. (Or the other way round if you prefer. Hence the individual settings per NUMPAD row).

And so on and so forth...

UnderTow

Gotya!  Good suggestions Undertow!