OT: Question for Janet/Mamabear

 
I should have posted this in the Songs forum but can't figure out how to move this thread to that forum.

That's what killed the fun of learning piano for me when I was younger.  Everything was done by the Grades system.  So for Grade 3 or whatever, you got a book with 6 or so pieces, from which you (your tutor) chose 3.  Plus some new scales, short excercise pieces and some theory.  And that was it - you had to play nothing but that constantly until you were ready for the exam.  Then rinse and repeat.  I think I got to Grade 5 before I couldn't take it any more.  By that stage I was playing stuff by ear anyway, and decided that drumming was the future!

I only had a couple of piano lessons.... I traded guitar lessons for them. It would help to get the basics of piano playing down - being able to play the scales, and knowing your chords, I guess. I think it's perfectly O.K. to attempt songs that appear to be beyond one's ability.  I've worked out a number of Billy Joel Pieces by ear. I think it would be harder to try to learn them from a piano score or by doing it they way you are attempting, but it seems to work. I like your version of Clare De lune.

I still think if you work the piece out phrase by phrase and work the phrases together you should be able to master these pieces faster. IE. start on the first 4 measures ,  then the next four ... then put both together. do the same for the next 8 and then merge them together now you have 16.  Music is repetitive so many of the phrases you work out will come back again later in the song.


-TAP-

P.S. I'm sure Janet will be by to comment. She started by taking lessons but later learned how to play by ear. I think her style and talent can be attributed to both her lessons and her ear training.

 

start on the first 4 measures ,  then the next four ... then put both together. do the same for the next 8 and then merge them together now you have 16.

 
Actually that's exactly the way I learn the song but instead of sheet music I "read" the midi notes and then memorize them.
 

I loved the method that that dude on Tv teaches, i think he is called the Piano guy.

 
I've watched his show a few times and I like it too. But I also like learning the complex left hand parts of the song because that's what makes the song really shine over a more simple arrangement.
 
I think I do OK but wish it didn't take me so long to master a song. I start to get tired of the song.
 
That's why I'm thinking perhaps I should start learning a new song as soon as I've memorized a my current song even though I haven't mastered the current one yet . I could continue practicing my current song while learning a new one and maybe that way I'll learn more songs faster.
 
I suppose the best way is to take the traditional route of taking lessons, practicing scales, etc. But I was never one for taking the traditional route.
 
I think what matters most is the end result of playing and not necessarily how you got there.
 
I also play acoustic and electric guitar but have never taken a lesson for that either.
 
Pete

 I would be working on several songs at the same time.

 
Thanks for the input. I was kind of thinking the same thing. I'm thinking the more songs I have under my belt the better.
 
I can still continue to practice my old songs while learning new ones.
 
I stopped writing my own songs several months ago. My plan is to learn to play other songs to sharpen my skills in both piano and guitar thereby allowing me to write better songs for myself. So I've been using all my free time to learn and practice, practice, practice.
 
I just can't stand the thought of learning to play "Twinkle-twinkle"   when I can already play Claire De Lune and some other more complex songs rather well, which is why I don't take lessons.
 
Thanks again,
Pete

Robomusic


I loved the method that that dude on Tv teaches, i think he is called the Piano guy. Anyway he teaches to learn the melody and add simple chord changes to it rather than learn complex left hand work, that way you get the sound of the song and simple chord support, and it is easier to learn and to add to in the future.

http://www.scotthouston.com/store/home.php

which, basically, is exactly the same thing as playing by "fake book"

OH!  I competely agree with that as well!  the reason I say that I encourage him to learn to read / sight read is because of his desire to play note for note.  I alos believe that learning to play "fake book" style and "by ear" are extremely good talents to have for a musician!

 
I totaly agree that learning to read music will definitely enhance one's skills.
 
On the same token, by studying a midi file, I am indeed playing the song note for note.
 
In addition I can actually hear the song being played and its arrangement before I start learning it because it is a midi file. I can listen to several midi files and decide which one I want to learn knowing that I'm going to like the song and arrangement before I start learning how to play it.
 
Many times the sheet music will be a simplified version of the song, which may not sound too good and you don't know it until you've already learned much of the song.
 
There are times when I add some notes/chords to the midi file and/or change the arrangement a bit to make it sound better.
 
Ideally it would be great to obtain a midi file of a chosen song and then print the sheet music for it in Cakewalk's staff view and learn learn how to play the song by reading the sheet music that was printed.
 
There are many roads to take and as long as you end up with a good final result I don't really think it matters how you reach your destination. Being able to read sheet music may get me there faster but I cringe when I think about how much time and effort it would take me to learn. It's like learning another language. Sometimes I think the time spent learning how to read sheet music can be better spent learning how to play the songs by studying midi.
 
On a side note: George Gershwin (One of my all-time favorite composers) never had any formal musical training. Yet his composition "Rhapsody In Blue" is the number one most played composition in the world.
 
Wow, how did this discussion get so deep?
 
Pete

actually, the dog is my "online" avatar and the guy in the ballcap is my "offline" avatar.

 
Wow, I didn't know you could do that. I just checked my profile and see now that I can. Well...isn't that special!
Well..just about everyone in the forum has participated in this thread except Janet.
 
I don't think she frequents this forum as often as she used to. She spends most of her time in the Songs forum now.

Well, Pete, I have to give you credit for your persistence with the midi approach. It really shouldn't be so bad if you are using a good keyboard and software program.
Good Luck.

-TAP-

http://www.classicalarchives.com/work/18457.html
 
Some live recordings of Mozart's "Twinkle" and at least 1 MIDI file.
Enjoy!

Hey Pete!  Sorry I'm so late to this party!  I actually spend waste most of my time in the coffee house these days, so you can usually get ahold of me there. 

Sounds like you've gotten lots of good answers here already.  But first of all--taking 2 months to memorize a song is NOT too much.  I can't even imagine memorizing one in 2 weeks, unless it's a very short, easy one or just chords or something.  But then again, I can only practice 15 minutes a day on a song, so it may take me longer than some.  Well, heck, I only ever memorized one song in my life and that was last year--Jon Schmidt's 'All of Me.'  11 pages!  I learned to play it in 2 months (or so), but then it took me 2-3 months to memorize it.  I never could play it without mistakes like you did Clair De Lune.  :-( 

Anyway, I think you have your answer, but I would say, no, don't wait to start another one till that one's done.  Piano playing should be about enjoyment too.  I make my students play certain songs (I use Bastien Piano Basics), but some of them we just don't like, so they can skip those.  If they bring a new song they want to learn, I let them work on it.  At Christmas they all get to work on Christmas songs (at their level) if they want to (The fact is, if they'd practice like they should, they could get through the 5 levels in a couple years and then go on to play almost anything they want (within reason, of course.)  But I don't get too many that practice that much or catch on that quickly, whatever the case may be.) 

As far as learning to read music now--sure, you'd probably benefit from that and enjoy it and do well.  On the other hand, what you're doing now is working for you.  :-)  In fact, you've inspired me to learn a few classical pieces just for fun.  I might even record them.  At my pace it's gonna take awhile.

But yeah, make it fun. :-)

I must admit that currently all my time is specifically allocated  for procrastinating but as soon as I'm finished I will start learning to read music.
 --- That's how I did  plan on doing it ....

 
Hey, diplomacy will get you much further in life than opinions.
 
BTW: Did you notice I uploaded a less controversial avatar? That's me at around 8-10 years old. Oh, to have hair and skin like that again!